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Make mining more like other PVE activities
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Axure Abbacus
Center for Advanced Studies
Gallente Federation
#21 - 2017-06-20 15:40:26 UTC
Scrap Metal Reprocessing npc mission junk. Its like mining but with guns.

I "can" mine but i like my brains for wording stuff about things two munch. (groolllinggnng)

It's not safe out here. It's wondrous, with treasures to satiate desires both subtle and gross. But it's not for the timid.
Cindy the Sewer
Radiation Sickness
#22 - 2017-06-20 18:16:08 UTC  |  Edited by: Cindy the Sewer
1. Your call it boring, a lot call it relaxing.

2. Making the game play options more and more homogeneous is ALWAYS bad for a game, and i mean ALWAYS, because you give up something and get nothing in return.

3. More minerals are bad for the economy which is already sucktastic.

4. And MOST importantly there has NEVER been a good idea for changing mining and there never will be so stop posting, "my great idea for making mining super-duper fantastic", because it will be just crap like all other such postings.

Searing destruction of your viewpoint is incoming and no you won't win the discussion or even walk away with anything resembling a win, so bail out early or suffer repeated embarrassments. You have been warned.
Valdr Auduin
Sebiestor Tribe
Minmatar Republic
#23 - 2017-06-20 23:15:29 UTC
Donnachadh wrote:
Do Little wrote:
Highsec already has random spawns of valuable ores. But you need to use your anomaly scanner to find them. I suspect a Jaspet site is quite valuable these days given the price of mexallon.

I know this used to be a thing in the dark past, however I have not seen one of these in past few years and given just basic random chance and the time I spend scanning in high sec I would have expected to come across at least one of them by now. Gives on cause to wonder do they even spawn anymore?

TheGuy Akachi wrote:
1.Good point. I didn't give any negatives. I don't know about absolutely NO ore. I think enough ore that is comparable to what bounties you would get for rats. A bit less, since mining isn't as ship risky of an activity as ratting.

Excellent point.

TheGuy Akachi wrote:
I'm for it! Would reduce cherry picking, and give more use to survey scanners, just like cargo scanners for exploration.

Using a scanner might work, concerned about it giving to much information. If the scan returned the exact type of ore then you have not reduced the ability to cherry pick. Given that is only takes a few seconds to scan as asteroid / ice chunk the only delays there would be was the first one, because after that you can scan while you mine. Not sure if this is good or bad but we need to address the concern in some fashion.

TheGuy Akachi wrote:
2. Well you can already kinda tell what kind of drops you are going to get with NPCs.

In your example we can classify NPC based on race and that gives us a clue of what we may get but it does not tell us precisely what we will get. So that brings up the question how do you classify ore so there is a range or possible ore without telling the player exactly which ore they will get?


They spawn occasionally and predictably, if you find one you can expect it to keep respawning, that big task is just finding the belt first after that it's like a monthly on any other MMO, you just need to check it every day or so because it gets mined out fast. Not really worth the time IMO, I just min/max pyroxeres.
Valdr Auduin
Sebiestor Tribe
Minmatar Republic
#24 - 2017-06-20 23:55:06 UTC
Marcus Binchiette wrote:
IMHO mining and many other, "harvesting", activities are poorly constructed are require massive ammounts of time spent at keyboard done doing non-engaging work. It is an element of gameplay which is almost entierly non-interactive and it's deliberately done for the sole purpose of generating targets for people to shoot at.

There is absolutely no need to do this. There is nothing which requires that players be actively piloting every single mining ship, or indeed any mining ships, during a mining operation. It is entierly possible to put targets on the field for people to defend, raid, pillage, and attack without the requirement of having players logged in and controlling every single one.

There are some harvesting mechancs in this game which work well. Planetary Interaction is a key example here. Moon harvesting is also in the right place. Whereby players deploy structures in space which harvest resources on a continual basis - and which are also subject to attack. In these dynamics the gameplay experience shifts from civilian craft to piloting military craft which defend those operations. IMO that is what this game should be.

I believe Mining should be done using deployable structures which can be set to work in a system - and which are vulnerable and need to be defended for the duration. Or perhaps a flotila of semi-automated ships which respond to player controls but don't have the requirement of the capsuleer actually piloting them. Or perhaps a Rorq which deploys a fleet of autonomous Ventures. Thus allowing the capuleer to control a squadron of ships instead of just one.

***

Seriously... I can feel my braincells dying everytime I bring myself to do mining.

So, you want to do PI in space? No, please, thank you, it's its own type of semi-active career and if you don't enjoy it and hate it when you absolutely have to do it, keep doing whatever it is that you enjoy because I enjoy mining the way it is. It could probably benefit from a few tweeks here and there, but these large-scale modifications of how it works at the core are too much, I almost like the idea of getting bits of random rare/unrare ore in my typical loads, but I don't like the idea of having to sort through them- then again it would give newer players a quick baseline comparison of what they're mining and what they could be mining, so having one or three units of ore out of a weighted distribution from every thousand m3 harvested come in as an alternate ore type (and a random or semi-random one at that is bound to each ore type) might be interesting. I'd keep the amount low to prevent multi-boxers and corps from bypassing the standard distribution model for ore collection.
Axure Abbacus
Center for Advanced Studies
Gallente Federation
#25 - 2017-06-21 00:05:43 UTC
Just randomly dropping additional materials for popping rocks doesn't work out. If you added a science mini game to fiddle with that may be worth adding to mining. Its becoming a thing and that is cool.

There are various University's with advanced material science programs. If ccp did something with simulating material science then it might work. Do science while mining and get some drone alloy could be mechanically acceptable.

https://www.osc.edu/solutions/advanced_materials?page=1

It's not safe out here. It's wondrous, with treasures to satiate desires both subtle and gross. But it's not for the timid.
TheGuy Akachi
Maniacal Miners INC
The Legends In The Game
#26 - 2017-06-21 03:46:40 UTC
Cindy the Sewer wrote:
1. Your call it boring, a lot call it relaxing.

2. Making the game play options more and more homogeneous is ALWAYS bad for a game, and i mean ALWAYS, because you give up something and get nothing in return.

3. More minerals are bad for the economy which is already sucktastic.

4. And MOST importantly there has NEVER been a good idea for changing mining and there never will be so stop posting, "my great idea for making mining super-duper fantastic", because it will be just crap like all other such postings.


1. My main issue really isn't with the mechanic necessarily. It is just that compared to other PVE activities (solo nullsec ratting pays more than solo nullsec mining). This is mainly because of multiboxers and bots (I'm assuming not a problem anymore) devaluing the ore. The mechanic is so "relaxing" that some people used to make bot programs to do it. That is a little too AFK for my tastes.

2. Well I think income should be balanced to a certain degree to prevent min/maxing and creating a meta. It should be not the amount of different careers a game has, it is about the amount of viable ones (in my opinion).

3. Well for solo miners, the ISK they make is very bad. End game subcapital mining, is not comparable to end game subcapital ratting.

4. I've seen plenty of good ideas to improve mining. A lot are better than mine. But one thing is for certain, if they do change mining, they need to leave an old option for those who like the relaxing AFK nature (and easy multiboxibility) of the old type. Give an option for those willing to be more active to make more income than those who don't.

I see your point. I really do. There is a lot of people who like the old mechanic, but there is also some people who want an option to do something more engaging while mining. 99% of all the mining skills are nontransferable to other careers in game. If this wasn't the case, it would be less of an issue (have turret skills and mining skills merge).

Hope you see where I am coming from, as a solo miner (not as in I don't want to participate in fleet ops, but as only one account).

CCP seems to be moving in this direction anyway with the changes to moon mining, so only time will tell.
TheGuy Akachi
Maniacal Miners INC
The Legends In The Game
#27 - 2017-06-21 05:19:48 UTC
Donnachadh wrote:
TheGuy Akachi wrote:
I'm for it! Would reduce cherry picking, and give more use to survey scanners, just like cargo scanners for exploration.

Using a scanner might work, concerned about it giving to much information. If the scan returned the exact type of ore then you have not reduced the ability to cherry pick. Given that is only takes a few seconds to scan as asteroid / ice chunk the only delays there would be was the first one, because after that you can scan while you mine. Not sure if this is good or bad but we need to address the concern in some fashion.

Well in exploration it is quick anyway too, but you still need to scan down the site.
Donnachadh wrote:

TheGuy Akachi wrote:
2. Well you can already kinda tell what kind of drops you are going to get with NPCs.

In your example we can classify NPC based on race and that gives us a clue of what we may get but it does not tell us precisely what we will get. So that brings up the question how do you classify ore so there is a range or possible ore without telling the player exactly which ore they will get?

Yeah, as I stated, the loot pool for minerals is a lot smaller, so this could be an issue for farming. Maybe destribute ore into clumps based on k-space/rats? IDK, but that would need to be dealt with, or have it completely random, as you said.
Valdr Auduin
Sebiestor Tribe
Minmatar Republic
#28 - 2017-06-21 13:30:42 UTC
What about a hacking, game or something similar, tied to Astronautic Engineering (since it has no actual use) that upgrades your ore pull each cycle you play and win a round, prevents damage to mining crystals, and gives you a bonus batch of ore one level better than what you're mining (+5% and +10% ore variants) or, if you're mining +10% ore already a random +0% ore one step lower on the security rating availability (mining in 0.5 will give you an ore that appears in 0.4, etc)?
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