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recruiting miners in small corps takes another hit

Author
leavwiz
AWE Corporation
Intrepid Crossing
#1 - 2017-06-15 21:19:40 UTC
Simply put, small corps renting space are struggling with the mining changes.
We don't have a choice of space to move to when the belts run out , so recruiting across time zones only means that if you log on later than your corpmates, only means the colloasal and enormous belts will be empty.
encouraging players to train for rorquals has resulted in disgruntled members no longer logging in after considerable time and isk was spent to get decent yields but with high risk. Now 2 hulks can do the same job with a lowly porpoise for boosts., A sad case of bait and switch with the rorqs that has people not bothering to log in. Why would anyone fly a 12 billion isk target when something much cheaper will do.
We are not all big alliances bleeding the systems dry and wrecking the economy. some of us eke out a living in rented space that is now useless for many hours per day.
Was there anything in this change that was designed to improve the player experience or entice new players? Lets try making changes that meet that goal instead of drving them away
Axhind
Eternity INC.
Goonswarm Federation
#2 - 2017-06-15 21:28:15 UTC
leavwiz wrote:
Simply put, small corps renting space are struggling with the mining changes.
We don't have a choice of space to move to when the belts run out , so recruiting across time zones only means that if you log on later than your corpmates, only means the colloasal and enormous belts will be empty.
encouraging players to train for rorquals has resulted in disgruntled members no longer logging in after considerable time and isk was spent to get decent yields but with high risk. Now 2 hulks can do the same job with a lowly porpoise for boosts., A sad case of bait and switch with the rorqs that has people not bothering to log in. Why would anyone fly a 12 billion isk target when something much cheaper will do.
We are not all big alliances bleeding the systems dry and wrecking the economy. some of us eke out a living in rented space that is now useless for many hours per day.
Was there anything in this change that was designed to improve the player experience or entice new players? Lets try making changes that meet that goal instead of drving them away



I guess that you will have to talk to the lowlifes you are renting from to get more space for the same price. Or join a proper alliance with space of its own.
Clockwork Robot
Science and Trade Institute
Caldari State
#3 - 2017-06-15 21:54:43 UTC
It is percieved to be a situation with a vastly dangerous outcome!!
Algarion Getz
Aideron Corp
#4 - 2017-06-15 22:16:52 UTC
The Rorqual nerfs are actually a huge boost to small corps. Hulks + Orca are cheaper, faster(= safer) and much easier to train into.
Sir BloodArgon Aulmais
Fortis Fortuna Adiuvatt
#5 - 2017-06-15 22:41:47 UTC
It's like every time I hear about the rorqual the price goes up. 12b? Last I heard it was 8. Then 10. Is it gonna be 15b next week?
If you use a mobile depo like a competent pod pilot, you won't lose drones, making a rorqual cost what, 3-4b max? (2.3b hull, rest in fittings) and even then insurance can bring the cost down. Its hilariously safe and profitable to use a rorqual if you are attentive/know what you're doing.
Frostys Virpio
KarmaFleet
Goonswarm Federation
#6 - 2017-06-16 00:18:47 UTC
leavwiz wrote:
Simply put, small corps renting space are struggling with the mining changes.

Was there anything in this change that was designed to improve the player experience or entice new players? Lets try making changes that meet that goal instead of drving them away


So your small renter corp mine :

Small:
Arkonor: 9600
Bistot: 12800
Crokite: 30000
Dark Ochre: 16000
Gneiss: 170000
Spodumain: 300000

Medium:
Arkonor: 28000
Bistot: 38700
Crokite: 84700
Dark Ochre: 31000
Gneiss: 340000
Spodumain: 270000
Mercoxit: 2600

Large:
Arkonor: 29900
Bistot: 57000
Crokite: 124000
Dark Ochre: 60000
Gneiss: 313500
Spodumain: 368100
Mercoxit: 3500

Enormous:
Arkonor: 58000
Bistot: 86000
Crokite: 169000
Dark Ochre: 50000
Gneiss: 540000
Spodumain: 542000
Mercoxit: 5200

Colossal:
Arkonor: 60800
Bistot: 114300
Crokite: 225200
Dark Ochre: 115000
Gneiss: 630000
Spodumain: 736200
Mercoxit: 7000

+ whatever belts you have in system

and it's not enough? How "small" is it and how many of them are "newbies"?
leavwiz
AWE Corporation
Intrepid Crossing
#7 - 2017-06-16 02:46:20 UTC
Algarion Getz wrote:
The Rorqual nerfs are actually a huge boost to small corps. Hulks + Orca are cheaper, faster(= safer) and much easier to train into.

well,, if we hadn't been led to believe there was value in training for and buying rorquals the miners would have been happy with hulks and orcas and the new porpoises. The problem was the expectation of so much more only to be double nerfed after people made the effort to train and spent the isk.
The respawn rates are the bigger issue, CCP suggests moving around to offset the timers. That's fine for large alliances with multiple systems. Not so cool for renter corps in a single system.
Someone else is quibbling about the price for rorquals being overstated, but a well fit one with excavator drones is easily over 10bil, fortunately , the latest change is bringing the price down.
my question still stands. what positive excitement did this change create to increase recruiting and growth in the game? or retain those that trickled back in via the alpha clone options just to find out whats going on in EVE,
I will still play my multiple accounts and I will still support my corp and alliance, I am just disappointed that the progress we were making in getting people back in the game has hit yet another roadblock due to changes that seem to solve a nonexistent problem.

if the economy is player driven (as stated numerous times in dev blogs) why is it necessary for CCP to step in and manipulate the minerals market?
Just wondering
Uskia Nymoso
State War Academy
Caldari State
#8 - 2017-06-16 02:52:23 UTC
Sounds like you're paying too much rent. Maybe it's time to renegotiate terms or to move to a more accommodating landlord??
Nevyn Auscent
Broke Sauce
#9 - 2017-06-16 03:05:41 UTC  |  Edited by: Nevyn Auscent
Frostys Virpio wrote:


and it's not enough? How "small" is it and how many of them are "newbies"?

Given they are all in Rorqs, not small or newbie from the sounds of it.
And the Small re-spawns in 20 minutes also I believe it was, something very short. Unless they are mining with true clouds of Rorqs they should be able to bounce between the small & medium anyway and enjoy the bigger ones for slightly more profit in the mean time.
And given that is per system....

@leavwiz. Player driven does not mean CCP don't intervene when it tilts badly out of balance. Especially since they caused the imbalance in the first place by changing the Rorq to start with. So if you believe it should never be intervened with, CCP should roll back the Rorq all the way to the original state which is even more of a nerf.
Eternus8lux8lucis
Primus Inc.
LEGIO ASTARTES ARCANUM
#10 - 2017-06-16 03:18:04 UTC
I mined with rorqual boosts pre ascension with 4 hulks. It took me all day to mine a medium by myself and that was a FRIGGING long day that I shall never dare to repeat. Even I could get a large by myself as a miner in system and how many "small", "newbie" miners do you have that all that isnt sufficient on a daily basis?

I dont think that "small" applies to you in this case if the respawn rate is being hit on your upgrades. And if the respawn does hit then I would suggest that you could afford a second system per month rent wise quite easily.Roll

Have you heard anything I've said?

You said it's all circling the drain, the whole universe. Right?

That's right.

Had to end sometime.

Netan MalDoran
The Grey Eagles
#11 - 2017-06-16 04:55:16 UTC
Something something ninja wormholes with Exhumers

"Your security status has been lowered." - Hell yeah it was!

Falcon's truth

Coralas
Center for Advanced Studies
Gallente Federation
#12 - 2017-06-16 05:13:38 UTC
There needs to be a finite number of rorquals supportable in a single system.

Congrats your "newbie" miners have found that finite number.
Salvos Rhoska
#13 - 2017-06-16 06:04:43 UTC  |  Edited by: Salvos Rhoska
Renting is a player-made mechanic, not a systemic one.

Options:
1) Re-negotiate your rent.
2) Join the controlling alliance proper, for more extensive access to their space.
3) Utilize your rented space more efficiently/comprehensively.
4) Move/rent somewhere else. For example, NPC Null.
5) Claim the space for yourself and defend it.
6) Setup alts to run alternative content when your space is depleted.
7) If you can, despite being a "small corp", deplete your space so quickly, it may be time for you to expand and occupy more space.



Your recruitment rate/retention depends on YOUR choices.
Its up to you what you can offer your members, not CCP and certainly not your landlords.



You seem to operate off a false premise that your particular piece of space should be inexhaustibly, perpetually filled with riches for convenient constant extraction.

EVE doesnt work that way.

Most players in EVE spend a substantial part of their time moving around to find content.

If you want regular/clockwork content, consider dominating ice-fields.
Sequester Risalo
Deep Core Mining Inc.
Caldari State
#14 - 2017-06-16 07:04:13 UTC
With the incoming changes to moon mining big and small mining organisations will have plenty to do. Just be Patient.
Ima Wreckyou
The Conference Elite
CODE.
#15 - 2017-06-16 07:23:57 UTC
If the pasture land shrinks, the obvious solution is to reduce the miner population by killing the off. It is the merciful solution.
Maxim Corvinus
Royal Armaments
#16 - 2017-06-16 07:36:51 UTC
leavwiz wrote:
Algarion Getz wrote:
The Rorqual nerfs are actually a huge boost to small corps. Hulks + Orca are cheaper, faster(= safer) and much easier to train into.

well,, if we hadn't been led to believe there was value in training for and buying rorquals the miners would have been happy with hulks and orcas and the new porpoises. The problem was the expectation of so much more only to be double nerfed after people made the effort to train and spent the isk.
The respawn rates are the bigger issue, CCP suggests moving around to offset the timers. That's fine for large alliances with multiple systems. Not so cool for renter corps in a single system.
Someone else is quibbling about the price for rorquals being overstated, but a well fit one with excavator drones is easily over 10bil, fortunately , the latest change is bringing the price down.
my question still stands. what positive excitement did this change create to increase recruiting and growth in the game? or retain those that trickled back in via the alpha clone options just to find out whats going on in EVE,
I will still play my multiple accounts and I will still support my corp and alliance, I am just disappointed that the progress we were making in getting people back in the game has hit yet another roadblock due to changes that seem to solve a nonexistent problem.

if the economy is player driven (as stated numerous times in dev blogs) why is it necessary for CCP to step in and manipulate the minerals market?
Just wondering


Why should the game cater for non-efforts?

Perhaps stop being a renter?
or perhaps rent more than one system?
Bjorn Tyrson
Infinite Point
Test Alliance Please Ignore
#17 - 2017-06-16 07:49:00 UTC
Rent more than one system has been mentioned multiple times.
another option is to talk to your neighbors, if your in renter space then surely there are a few other renters in your neighborhood. find one that is active in a different time zone from you and negotiate mutual access, heck, that might even evolve into an alliance allowing both groups to hold even more space.
from the sounds of it you have outgrown what you have and you need to either expand to accommodate, or collapse.
Jikai
Doomheim
#18 - 2017-06-16 14:22:57 UTC
Frostys Virpio wrote:
How "small" is it and how many of them are "newbies"?


Intrepid Crossing Alliance is positively minuscule! Only 687 members and 10 systems.

http://evemaps.dotlan.net/alliance/Intrepid_Crossing
Zanar Skwigelf
Wormhoppers Inc.
#19 - 2017-06-16 15:30:15 UTC
leavwiz wrote:
encouraging players to train for rorquals has resulted in disgruntled members no longer logging in after considerable time and isk was spent


Why do people **** away their wealth chasing flavor of the month ships? This isn't League of Legends, there are consequences for being that reckless with your isk.

leavwiz wrote:
12 billion isk target

leavwiz wrote:
eke out a living


Wat? how out of touch are you? sell the rorq and you can PLEX for a year. sounds like a ton of wealth to the average player.

leavwiz wrote:
Was there anything in this change that was designed to improve the player experience or entice new players? Lets try making changes that meet that goal instead of drving them away


Actually yes, reducing the yield of end game, high SP requirement ships like the Rorq means that mineral prices will be higher, and new players in their ventures and retrievers will get a higher isk/hr. Sounds like this change was very beneficial to new players, instead of current players that have Mom's Credit Card trained to V.
Jenn aSide
Shinigami Miners
Already Replaced.
#20 - 2017-06-16 15:46:57 UTC
leavwiz wrote:
Simply put, small corps renting space are struggling with the mining changes.
We don't have a choice of space to move to when the belts run out , so recruiting across time zones only means that if you log on later than your corpmates, only means the colloasal and enormous belts will be empty.
encouraging players to train for rorquals has resulted in disgruntled members no longer logging in after considerable time and isk was spent to get decent yields but with high risk. Now 2 hulks can do the same job with a lowly porpoise for boosts., A sad case of bait and switch with the rorqs that has people not bothering to log in. Why would anyone fly a 12 billion isk target when something much cheaper will do.
We are not all big alliances bleeding the systems dry and wrecking the economy. some of us eke out a living in rented space that is now useless for many hours per day.
Was there anything in this change that was designed to improve the player experience or entice new players? Lets try making changes that meet that goal instead of drving them away



There was no bait and switch. CCP NEVER EVER promised anyone that something won't change, and any idiot with a half functioning brain cell could tell that something about Rorq mining would get nerfed when the mineral market started to crash.

When i was a kid there was a saying that was obviously more popular then than now: If it looks too good to be true, IT'S NOT TRUE. This applies to EVE and I personally adhere to that lesson by ( a ) never ever running towards the 'flavor of the month' thing everyone else is (because CCP is going to nerf it) and ( b ) not getting too attached to anything in EVE online since everything in EVE Online belongs to CCP not me.

I avoid a lot of frustration by doing the above.

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