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Bond Offering by Far Wanderer - 2bil @ 5% - open-ended.

Author
Far Wanderer
The New Bank of Far
#1 - 2017-06-12 08:42:39 UTC  |  Edited by: Far Wanderer
I am issuing bonds totaling 2 billion isk to acquire capital for minor station trading activity.

The interest rate is 5% per month. The bond is open-ended.

Interest is paid on the 1st of each month. This is an unsecured investment.

The minimum investment is 100 million isk. Maximum investment is 1 billion. 100 million increments, please.

My last activity on these forums is documented here.

An analysis of how that effort ended can be found here. (Spoiler: everyone got their money back.)

Please feel free to ask questions in this thread.

Reservations:

.

.

.

I really am wasting my breath though, when you can avoid questions from Hexxx and RAW23 like that you must have some seriously devoted investors. --Elizabeth Norn

Elizabeth Norn
Nornir Research
Nornir Empire
#2 - 2017-06-12 11:31:56 UTC  |  Edited by: Elizabeth Norn
Now that's a blast from the past.

This is quite a jump since I believe you had only borrowed 500m before, and radio silence from you for three years after the sudden closure of you "bank" isn't really inspiring.

As usual I hope any potential investors do their due diligence and investigate both of the threads linked to by Far Wanderer.
Cista2
EVE Museum
#3 - 2017-06-12 13:01:41 UTC  |  Edited by: Cista2
Hello :)

You give too little information about your absence. How long have you been back in the game? Is your MO the same as before? How much money of your *own* money do you have to trade with, before asking for 2 bn? Can you prove any of it?

In view of that absence and lack of info, jumping from 400 mil to 2 bn in investments is not going to work out for you at such a low rate. Not even at a higher rate. There are less than 10 people that can get money on 4%.
You can become one of them if you show enough consistency. Look up Pileasure Hubs history.

My channel: "Signatures" -

Far Wanderer
The New Bank of Far
#4 - 2017-06-13 05:22:02 UTC
Ooh, questions!

And hello, Cista2.

Cista2 wrote:
How long have you been back in the game?
Hrm...about two weeks, give or take.

Cista2 wrote:
Is your MO the same as before?
No. I'm offering bonds, not running a bank.

Cista2 wrote:
How much money of your *own* money do you have to trade with, before asking for 2 bn?
About 50 million ISK, as of today. Though I don't plan to use my ISK. I plan to use ISK sourced from bonds.

Cista2 wrote:
Can you prove any of it?
I suppose I could, but I'm not interested in going through the effort.

Cista2 wrote:
There are less than 10 people that can get money on 4%.
Not sure what you mean here.

Thanks for asking questions! Big smile

I really am wasting my breath though, when you can avoid questions from Hexxx and RAW23 like that you must have some seriously devoted investors. --Elizabeth Norn

Krysenth
Saints Of Havoc
Requiem Eternal
#5 - 2017-06-13 05:57:10 UTC
Far Wanderer wrote:


Cista2 wrote:
How much money of your *own* money do you have to trade with, before asking for 2 bn?
About 50 million ISK, as of today. Though I don't plan to use my ISK. I plan to use ISK sourced from bonds.


So.... you're asking for what amounts to an no-collateral loan that is essentially 40 times your current liquid isk, with what would seem to be a high inability to provide anything resembling fair collateral?

I'm sorry for being skeptical, but your current liquid isk also means that, if your strategies utterly fail after this being filled, best case scenario, you're left with basically no isk after repaying what was loaned. Worst case? You might be able to keep up with the interest each month, but god help you if the payables are called due.

Would make a lot more sense to try getting a smaller amount, or find some way to offer collateral, even if it's just partial.
Far Wanderer
The New Bank of Far
#6 - 2017-06-13 06:27:35 UTC  |  Edited by: Far Wanderer
Krysenth wrote:
So.... you're asking for what amounts to an no-collateral loan that is essentially 40 times your current liquid isk, with what would seem to be a high inability to provide anything resembling fair collateral?

This is an odd question--and an odd sentence.

"What amounts to" and "what would seem to be" and "high inability" are all weasel words; they don't actually say anything. They aren't dependent on any statements I've made in this thread.

I indicated in the OP that the bond offering is unsecured. Can you explain to me what "fair collateral" is?

The "40 times your current liquid isk" phrase is good. Your math is close enough.

Krysenth wrote:
I'm sorry for being skeptical, (snip)
Why? What's wrong with being skeptical? It's good habit to take up, provided you back up your skepticism with the best information you can acquire on any topic that you judge is worth your time to engage with.

Krysenth wrote:
(snip) but your current liquid isk also means that, if your strategies utterly fail after this being filled, best case scenario, you're left with basically no isk after repaying what was loaned.
You don't have enough information to make this conclusion.

What are some other questions you can ask that would help you to determine if your conclusion is actually true or not?

Krysenth wrote:
Worst case? You might be able to keep up with the interest each month, but god help you if the payables are called due.
I know what it's like to be in a market position where, should all my customers ask for their isk back, I'd be screwed.

However, I'm pretty sure God won't need to help me when it comes to my trading activities on the market because she's never had to in the past; when my customers wanted their money back, they get their money back.

Krysenth wrote:
Would make a lot more sense to try getting a smaller amount, or find some way to offer collateral, even if it's just partial.
I appreciate the advice.

In my experience (playing EVE off and on for the last nine and a half years), it's more fun to offer players isk-making opportunities with at least some risk built in.

That, and I've found that there are always players willing to take risks by giving other players their money, and that such players enjoy getting paid on time, month after month, for as long as they afford me the privilege of investing their isk, and for as long as I care to play the game.

I really am wasting my breath though, when you can avoid questions from Hexxx and RAW23 like that you must have some seriously devoted investors. --Elizabeth Norn

Krysenth
Saints Of Havoc
Requiem Eternal
#7 - 2017-06-13 06:57:58 UTC
Far Wanderer wrote:


Krysenth wrote:
(snip) but your current liquid isk also means that, if your strategies utterly fail after this being filled, best case scenario, you're left with basically no isk after repaying what was loaned.
You don't have enough information to make this conclusion.

Actually, you've provided enough information yourself to make that conclusion. You're asking for 2b@4%, open ended, with an on-hand liquidity of 50m isk. You're looking at an overall interest payment of 80m per month as well. Which, again, if your isk making strategies, whether the stated market trading or mission running like mad, fall through entirely (not likely to happen unless the markets have a catastrophic price suppression), you're looking at a loss which puts you in debt, as far as the isk you've stated as being on-hand. Whether that represents the totality of your other liquid assets is, to me at least, less important than the assumption you're putting forward that that 50m isk represents the totality of your current isk-making ability.

While not necessarily something that could happen, it is still something that would weigh on the minds of anyone who would consider this business opportunity.
Cor'El Dahken
Unicorn Fatale
#8 - 2017-06-13 07:31:47 UTC
Far Wanderer wrote:


Cista2 wrote:
Can you prove any of it?
I suppose I could, but I'm not interested in going through the effort.





That's the kicker for me, you want someone to risk their hard earned isk on someone who isn't interested in going through the effort.
Droodid
Antec Enterprises
#9 - 2017-06-13 14:13:42 UTC
Far Wanderer wrote:
Cista2 wrote:
There are less than 10 people that can get money on 4%.
Not sure what you mean here.


It means you're about 6-8% shy of where you need to be in terms of interest offered in order to actually look attractive to lenders. The interest you're currently offering is more suited to a collateralised loan.
Far Wanderer
The New Bank of Far
#10 - 2017-06-13 16:49:26 UTC  |  Edited by: Far Wanderer
Krysenth wrote:
less important than the assumption you're putting forward that that 50m isk represents the totality of your current isk-making ability.
Heh.

Listing isk on hand is not the same thing as making an assumption.

I can list my isk on hand.

You can make assumptions.

Or you can ask more questions.


Lol

I really am wasting my breath though, when you can avoid questions from Hexxx and RAW23 like that you must have some seriously devoted investors. --Elizabeth Norn

Far Wanderer
The New Bank of Far
#11 - 2017-06-13 16:54:16 UTC  |  Edited by: Far Wanderer
Droodid wrote:


It means you're about 6-8% shy of where you need to be in terms of interest offered in order to actually look attractive to lenders. The interest you're currently offering is more suited to a collateralised loan.
Now this is a useful response.

Thank you!

I really am wasting my breath though, when you can avoid questions from Hexxx and RAW23 like that you must have some seriously devoted investors. --Elizabeth Norn

Keno Skir
#12 - 2017-06-16 10:31:46 UTC
Far Wanderer wrote:
Krysenth wrote:
less important than the assumption you're putting forward that that 50m isk represents the totality of your current isk-making ability.
Heh.

Listing isk on hand is not the same thing as making an assumption.

I can list my isk on hand.

You can make assumptions.

Or you can ask more questions.


Lol


You're suspect as absolute f*ck. Your attitude is bad, and you aren't successful enough to have ANY of your own cash yet (50M is not any money). The quote from NORN under your posts, will he actually vouch for you (why isn't he lending you money?) or is the quote just an attempt to peg someone well known onto your scheme?
Elizabeth Norn
Nornir Research
Nornir Empire
#13 - 2017-06-16 11:25:46 UTC
Keno Skir wrote:
Far Wanderer wrote:
Krysenth wrote:
less important than the assumption you're putting forward that that 50m isk represents the totality of your current isk-making ability.
Heh.

Listing isk on hand is not the same thing as making an assumption.

I can list my isk on hand.

You can make assumptions.

Or you can ask more questions.


Lol


You're suspect as absolute f*ck. Your attitude is bad, and you aren't successful enough to have ANY of your own cash yet (50M is not any money). The quote from NORN under your posts, will he actually vouch for you (why isn't he lending you money?) or is the quote just an attempt to peg someone well known onto your scheme?


My quote was criticism of Far Wanderer for evading the questions of RAW and Hexxx, two well-respected posters here.
Cista2
EVE Museum
#14 - 2017-06-16 13:10:03 UTC
Elizabeth Norn wrote:

My quote was criticism of Far Wanderer for evading the questions of RAW and Hexxx, two well-respected posters here.

Yes, but are you vouching Big smile

My channel: "Signatures" -

Far Wanderer
The New Bank of Far
#15 - 2017-06-17 08:21:10 UTC
Keno Skir wrote:
You're suspect as absolute f*ck.
I think you just like to hear yourself speak. P

Keno Skir wrote:
Your attitude is bad, ...
My attitude is great!

I mean, I have no problem with me. Never really have, near as I can recall. Besides, who cares what other people think?

Keno Skir wrote:
...and you aren't successful enough to have ANY of your own cash yet (50M is not any money).
I remember when I first started playing EVE. 50mil was a significant amount of money back then. Better not to let go of that perspective, methinks.

That, and 50mil ISK is just too much money to have to tell, one ISK at a time, that it doesn't really count. Why would I want to treat my ISK that way?

Keno Skir wrote:
The quote from NORN under your posts, will he actually vouch for you (why isn't he lending you money?) or is the quote just an attempt to peg someone well known onto your scheme?
Elizabeth did what every good veteran of these here forums should do: Encourage her peers to follow the threads and do their research.

As for being well known on these forums, it's not as valuable as you might think. The reason my (prior) investors didn't waver in the face of tough questions posed by Hexxx and RAW23 was because the notoriety of those two forum members didn't matter at all.

My investors stuck with me because they always got paid on time and in full.

I really am wasting my breath though, when you can avoid questions from Hexxx and RAW23 like that you must have some seriously devoted investors. --Elizabeth Norn

lanyaie
Nocturnal Romance
Cynosural Field Theory.
#16 - 2017-06-17 12:23:42 UTC
Far Wanderer wrote:

I mean, I have no problem with me. Never really have, near as I can recall. Besides, who cares what other people think?


Well...I suspect everyone that tries to obtain a loan cares about what other people think....

That is quite a troubling thing to hear from someone you are supposed to give a loan to. Who cares what other people think when you run off with their money, right?

Spaceprincess

People who put passwords on char bazaar Eveboards are the worst.

Far Wanderer
The New Bank of Far
#17 - 2017-06-17 17:28:01 UTC  |  Edited by: Far Wanderer
lanyaie wrote:
Well...I suspect everyone that tries to obtain a loan cares about what other people think....
I see what you did there.

And no, it's not a loan, it's a bond offering.

I don't think most people who wish to obtain funds care what other people think, because the percentage of people that choose to take advantage of an offering is small relative to the population of players that visit these forums.

What you think of me does not matter.

What matters is whether I keep my word or not in the event you decide to do business with me.

If you do, you'll get paid in a timely manner. That's how I've always done business.

If you want your money back, you'll get it back in a timely manner. That's how I've always done business.

If you become annoying, I'll fire you as a customer and find a better customer. That's how I've always done business.

lanyaie wrote:
That is quite a troubling thing to hear from someone you are supposed to give a loan to. Who cares what other people think when you run off with their money, right?
:tink:

Ooh, glanced off the shield. You'll have to try harder than that.

Or you could make yourself useful by asking questions that are, you know, relevant.

It's not that hard.

I really am wasting my breath though, when you can avoid questions from Hexxx and RAW23 like that you must have some seriously devoted investors. --Elizabeth Norn

Far Wanderer
The New Bank of Far
#18 - 2017-06-17 18:11:00 UTC  |  Edited by: Far Wanderer
I've increased the interest rate offered to 5%

Current ISK on hand: 133mil.

I really am wasting my breath though, when you can avoid questions from Hexxx and RAW23 like that you must have some seriously devoted investors. --Elizabeth Norn

Keno Skir
#19 - 2017-06-19 18:24:34 UTC  |  Edited by: Keno Skir
Far Wanderer wrote:
My investors stuck with me because they always got paid on time and in full.

What investors? Roll

Far Wanderer wrote:
As for being well known on these forums, it's not as valuable as you might think.

It depends entirely what you're well known for, but it can in fact be the MOST valuable quality around here.
Far Wanderer
The New Bank of Far
#20 - 2017-06-19 19:36:35 UTC
Keno Skir wrote:

What investors?
Do you know how to read?

If yes, start at the top of this thread.

Be sure to follow the links.

I really am wasting my breath though, when you can avoid questions from Hexxx and RAW23 like that you must have some seriously devoted investors. --Elizabeth Norn

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