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[June] Fighter Damage Reduction

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Minerva Arbosa
Spatial Forces
Warped Intentions
#1781 - 2017-06-12 17:00:46 UTC
CCP Larrikin wrote:
[img]http://web.ccpgamescdn.com/newssystem/media/71813/1/GermanFlag33.png[/img]  [img]http://cdn1.eveonline.com/community/devblog/FLAG_-_RUSSIAN-33.png[/img]

UPDATE 2017-07-12: Reduced the damage reduction to fighters. Added supporting data.

Greetings Capsuleers,
Coming tomorrow in the June 2017 release, the damage output of Fighters will see a reduction by the game design team. After a long weekend sifting through some passionate feedback and taking into consideration previously ongoing design work, let’s take a look at what’s coming.

The Data:
Let’s set the stage for the decision by taking sample of 5 days in June. During that timeframe 10.6 Trillion ISK was rewarded in bounties. Of that:
  • 22.3% (2.3T) of the ISK was generated by 1.4% of characters earning bounties, using Supercarriers
  • 24.2% (2.6%) of the ISK was generated by 4.8% of characters earning bounties, using Carriers
  • 19.1% (2T) of the ISK was generated by 16.6% of characters earning bounties, using T1 Cruisers
Just under half (46.5%) of the bounties earned during the time period was generated by Supercarriers and Carriers, meaning a small percent of the population received a huge portion of the total bounties.

Why:
Our primary goal for this change is reducing the combat power of Carriers & Supercarriersin PvE, specifically anomaly ratting in Nullsec. As you may have seen in the May Monthly Economy Report, there is a significant upward trend in the Money Supply. This is due to NPC Bounties.

[img]http://cdn1.eveonline.com/community/MER/May_2017/9b_isk.float.3.jpg[/img]

This trend is unsustainable. Having such a large ISK faucet is bad for the economy, and this ISK faucet is concentrated to a relatively small number of players.
Our secondary goal is that Carriers and Supercarriers are too effective in PvP, even for the investment it takes to create them. This change will shift the PvP balance, but we’re confident that Carriers and Supercarriers will remain powerful options for PvP battles.

What:
  • Light Fighters (Space Superiority): No Change
  • Light Fighters (Attack): 10% reduction to Basic Attack and Heavy Rocket Salvo damage (was 20%)
  • Support Fighters: No Change
  • Heavy Fighters (Heavy Attack): No Change (was 10% reduction to Basic Attack and Torpedo Salvo damage)
  • Heavy Fighters (Long Range Attack): 20% reduction to Basic Attack damage (was 30%)
  • Heavy Fighters (Shadow): No Change
  • NPC Fighter Aggression: No Change (was +15%)
  • We are working on changes to Anomalies that will reduce the effectiveness of Carriers and Supercarriers. These changes will be announced at a later date.


We will continue to observe the economy after these changes and will make adjustments as necessary to keep it healthy for all our players. Some of you have asked 'Why not just reduce the bounties?'. The focus of this change is Supercarriers and Carriers. We don't want to effect the income of ships besides those with this change.


Stop needing Citafels.
Resnar Deathnar
KarmaFleet
Goonswarm Federation
#1782 - 2017-06-12 17:00:54 UTC
That's very nice thanks CCP to listen us, even if I still have a bit of concern, why nerfing Super ratting ? Those ship cost a lot, need a big intel to keep it safe, everyone look to kill them, need a very long time to train (T2 fighter/nice shield/armor skill etc to be effective). Those ship are the end game of eve, all my eve life I want to have one, and even If i have one now, i feel like pushing 100mil tick (and it ask a lot of APM) is not enough.
If a war explode, you can't use your ratting super if you are hit by the war, as a goon, I can tell you, we rat in super because there is nothing else to do, if you realy want to nerf super ratting/rorq mining, you should look at adding isk sink like a war, the best exemple for that was goons deployement in catch, during this period of time no one had time to rat/mine, super was deploy for the war and rorq was not safe to use (hi 5 min siege). Anyway, I hope you will look further, sorry for my bad english, not native english speaker.
Sassura
Sassy's Corporation
#1783 - 2017-06-12 17:01:26 UTC
Thead Enco wrote:
"Just under half (46.5%) of the bounties earned during the time period was generated by Supercarriers and Carriers, meaning a small percent of the population received a huge portion of the total bounties."

You should of thought of capital proliferation when your were implementing skill injectors. Oh wait you did, you hired the EA marketing team.


Indeed and when you look at the actual figures that carriers and supers make ratting, it's not really all that crazy considering the isk and skill requirements. Also, a huge number of the subcap numbers will be people multiboxing and that should be taken into account.

Skill injectors and overpowered rorquals mining up a storm and building cheap capitals and supers made this all possible. Perhaps the skill injectors need a nerf too, so that they do not work on actual capital ship skills, just all the prereqs. They continue to help the newer players as intended by slow down the all to easy progression to top tier ships. Or would that hurt the revenue too much?
Thead Enco
Domheimed
#1784 - 2017-06-12 17:01:32 UTC
Stunt wrote:
This still does not address the core issue of pve being safe and lack of content mechanics.
Safe in Delve?
Creeda Vain
Imperial Academy
Amarr Empire
#1785 - 2017-06-12 17:01:34 UTC
nerf nerf nerf nerf always nerf for the old player that look for fun with expensive ship.

why would I stay in the game to play only frigate to have fun?

If other people want to make more money go farm with super if they don't have balls .... it's not our fault.
Hypp
Deep Core Mining Inc.
Caldari State
#1786 - 2017-06-12 17:01:40 UTC
yay
Nexio Siete
Nexal Shipping
#1787 - 2017-06-12 17:02:05 UTC  |  Edited by: Nexio Siete
Suitonia wrote:
Great changes


Yeah a WH CSM completely not biased about being part of the TheraGirls "hit, run and close the WH" without being responded to as effectively and now not having to cry because of the "blob" response fleet.

Of course TheraGirls never mention they are the ones doing the blob in the first place! They just cry when they get countered.

What a surprise!
Mostlyharmlesss
Republic Military School
Minmatar Republic
#1788 - 2017-06-12 17:02:30 UTC
The reason is that there is literally no reason to use ISK - People are hoarding it while waiting for the next big war. If you were a good developer you would realize this an instead of doing dumb things like this, you would introduce more reasons to fight actual wars (No, a dumb ESS isn't going to make fights).

Follow me on Twitter for the latest regarding GoonSwarm Federation and our recruitment drives!
Frostys Virpio
State War Academy
Caldari State
#1789 - 2017-06-12 17:02:56 UTC  |  Edited by: Frostys Virpio
Valdr Auduin wrote:
CCP Larrikin wrote:
Original Post updated
Quote:
The Data:
Let’s set the stage for the decision by taking sample of 5 days in June. During that timeframe 10.6 Trillion ISK was rewarded in bounties. Of that:
22.3% (2.3T) of the ISK was generated by 1.4% of characters earning bounties, using Supercarriers
24.2% (2.6%) of the ISK was generated by 4.8% of characters earning bounties, using Carriers
19.1% (2T) of the ISK was generated by 16.6% of characters earning bounties, using T1 Cruisers
Just under half (46.5%) of the bounties earned during the time period was generated by Supercarriers and Carriers, meaning a small percent of the population received a huge portion of the total bounties.

That's 65.6% of the ISK and only 22.8% of the characters earning bounties. Partial transparency is still opaque censoring. A round of applause for the measured step back, though.


Because the rest are outliers compared to those 3. Do you really need the total to be displayed because I can tell you even logi earn bounties so the list of ship class to be posted would be long.
Valdr Auduin
Sebiestor Tribe
Minmatar Republic
#1790 - 2017-06-12 17:03:51 UTC  |  Edited by: Valdr Auduin
Another sudden thought: why are ships spec'd to allow full T2 kit with maxed skills? kind of takes the purpose and variety out of even having tiered systems if you can more or less mount full 2s across the whole fit

Frostys Virpio wrote:
Because the rest are outliers compared to those 3. Do you really need the total to be displayed because I can tell you even logi ear bounties so the list of ship class to be posted would be long.

Like one more chart is going to hurt?
Helga Chelien
Doomheim
#1791 - 2017-06-12 17:05:41 UTC
You will be able to lower T1 cruiser? They extract as much isk, how much supercarrier.

Не надо расстраиваться, если вас кто-то обидел. Расстроенным хорошую месть не придумаешь.
SurrenderMonkey
State Protectorate
Caldari State
#1792 - 2017-06-12 17:07:52 UTC
Helga Chelien wrote:
You will be able to lower T1 cruiser? They extract as much isk, how much supercarrier.


Not on a per-capita basis, they don't.

"Help, I'm bored with missions!"

http://swiftandbitter.com/eve/wtd/
Frostys Virpio
State War Academy
Caldari State
#1793 - 2017-06-12 17:08:03 UTC
Helga Chelien wrote:
You will be able to lower T1 cruiser? They extract as much isk, how much supercarrier.


Well they require about 12 time as many character to get to about the same numbers before nerf. If they actually wanted to reduce it, it actually could be super simple tho.
TrouserDeagle
Beyond Divinity Inc
Shadow Cartel
#1794 - 2017-06-12 17:09:32 UTC
if you want to make them less good at anoms why are you cancelling the npc aggro change
LifeshifterX
#1795 - 2017-06-12 17:11:27 UTC
"This trend is unsustainable. Having such a large ISK faucet is bad for the economy, and this ISK faucet is concentrated to a relatively small number of players."

So why change it for everyone then if it's only a small amount of players.
Lord Scouser FatOfTheLand
Air
The Initiative.
#1796 - 2017-06-12 17:12:18 UTC
Worst! set of changes ever!Attention
No wonder we are getting new Vexor Skins.
Makes this carrier Nerf BS a little more easy when we are forced into
T1 & T2 Cruisers, Coz the ticks are better than Caps Evil
Stop Making the game worse please!
Coelus Kugisa
Perkone
Caldari State
#1797 - 2017-06-12 17:12:37 UTC
Quote:
19.1% (2T) of the ISK was generated by 16.6% of characters earning bounties, using T1 Cruisers


So 16.6% of the game is Horde and KarmaFleet multiboxing VNI's.

Quote:
1.4% of characters earning bounties, using Supercarriers
4.8% of characters earning bounties, using Carriers


Do I get to cherry pick this data as 0.0001% of the game is actually 6.2% of the game?
Von Jovhian
Doomheim
#1798 - 2017-06-12 17:12:59 UTC
I still want to see a video of that DANK 260M A TICK SUPERCARRIER RATTING .
Sir zaviel
KarmaFleet
Goonswarm Federation
#1799 - 2017-06-12 17:13:54 UTC
Thanks for reconsidering the digits! although I agree somewhat that it needed addressing , I disagree the old amount was acceptable, now it doesnt seem so bad!
PenguinBacon
GoonWaffe
Goonswarm Federation
#1800 - 2017-06-12 17:14:20 UTC
I too can massage data to justify a false conclusion!

Per Quant's 2015 presentation
1.5% of the games population logged in and ran incursions

This group accounted for at the time 8.36T worth of income

Assuming linear growth of the player base based on the increase in incursion income
May 2017th Income is 9.92T.

This was a growth of 18.68% of income. The estimated population of incursion runners is 1.66%.

So Rounding up to 1.7% to be consistent with the chart made by Quant.
We have 1.7% of the games population accounting for 9.92T income.

To compare this with the numbers posted by Larrikin in the first post
22.3% (2.3T) of the ISK was generated by 1.4% of characters earning bounties, using Supercarriers
24.2% (2.6T) of the ISK was generated by 4.8% of characters earning bounties, using Carriers
19.1% (2T) of the ISK was generated by 16.6% of characters earning bounties, using T1 Cruisers

Incursion runners are about 21% more of a player base than SuperCarriers but result in 331% more income per character.