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[June] Fighter Damage Reduction

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Petros K
C5 Flight
Fraternity.
#1641 - 2017-06-12 09:40:15 UTC
Start


Middle

End


Plus about 200M in true sansha stuff , that makes it almost 1B in 21hours .
VNI , 5months old noob player .
Super chill ratting , i watched Logan (2+half hours movie , bet you cant do that while you rat with carrier )
3 Episodes of Blood-C
ALOT YOUTUBE
ALOT OF CHATTINGS
Ate breakfast , lunch and dinner .
Drunk 3 coffees
Played alot of matches in HS (also got a legendary card from pack! )




Sure , carriers is the problem .....
lolzz Quekz
Federal Navy Academy
Gallente Federation
#1642 - 2017-06-12 09:45:53 UTC  |  Edited by: lolzz Quekz
they can even do something like "due to the massive strain in operating Capital ships after constant use will suffer a stacking penalty occurring every x hours lasting for x hrs" to limit cap ratting while kinda like jump fatigue

the stacking penalties can affect fighter gun tracking etc..

and carriers are not the only problem dreads in WH i believe have the potential to me billions in an hour how would that be justifiable?
blaedin jordan
Federal Navy Academy
Gallente Federation
#1643 - 2017-06-12 09:46:04 UTC  |  Edited by: blaedin jordan
Bron Ander Haltern wrote:
The problem is that all these nerf changes both fighters and ror cuts above all hit directly the casual player that has one or two accounts because sharks will always adopt to the situation and they got enough money to change profile of their ventures. CCP made a lot of mistakes that where mentioned earlier like for example new sov, skill injectors, citadels mechanic so to mention a few. Simple cuts in fighter and ror stats will not solve the economic problem of eve market because they lead to another cuts in other places and so on and on and on, that is not a solution! And we all know that game is not in balance already.

I have struggled a lot to get to the place where I will be able to fly caps since it was my high end (ultimate goal) in the game but tomorrow my amarr and caldari super/carriers will become pure garbage and I assure you that does not concern only 1% of the 1% of players.

Fighters cuts will make changes in areas of pve, pvp and citadel defense possibilities so it is not simple cut it will more certainly trigger more cuts and it will not solve the market problem first of all.

The tomorrow hasty, introduced without consultations and tests patch will affect world of EVE tremendously and will change wiev of a lot of players on the game.

If CCP wanted to curb the market it would cut bounties or limit the amounts of clients per computer and amount of pumped isks to the system would diminish next day.

I say again CCP do not follow that path!


I agree, what a terrible decision. I miss the CCP of 2011, the new leadership just rolls out bad idea after bad idea. Fozzy sov -- which effectively killed null sec warfare is another prime example. Wretched changes, 20% damage nerf to any ship [ AND INCREASED AGRO TO ALREADY OVER-TARGETED FIGHTERS?!! ] is far too much. I've cut 4 accounts so far, leaving only my main to help with ops - but now that I know of 2 close friends that are already playing another game b/c of the Rorq changes, I might join them in Black Desert as well. I'm just so disgusted.
Teckos Pech
Hogyoku
Goonswarm Federation
#1644 - 2017-06-12 09:48:30 UTC
lolzz Quekz wrote:
baltec1 wrote:
M3tamorph wrote:
Is CCP really ignoring all this posts and will not give a flying "panda" about the players and their opinions?

It's obvious that this will be worst change CCP already forced their paying customers... are we still going forward with this tomorrow???


No, they are just ignoring the bears bitching about having their golden goose castrated.

Too must isk flowing into the economy has been a problem for a while now and the single biggest cause is carriers/supers out in null. Revamping the way anoms work to stop this is a big task and will take too much time so they went with the easier option and nuked the problem ships.

This is not the worst change they have done, not even close. If you want your firepower back then start pushing for anoms to be revamped so they cannot flood the market with isk.


issue is they didnt nuke all the problem ships they only nuked the elitist problem ships which are also the end game some players are work towards. if they really wanted to control the isk income just nerf the ticks and that would be way easier than nerfing fighters.

and if they truly want to shut everyone up on this issue they should just issue a detailed report on bounty payout based on ship class by simply saying 140m tick must be super ratting and using it as a basis that all carrier and super carriers are making the same is not justifiable


Nonsense.

Look at the data FFS. ISK growth was pretty much flat for quite some time.

"The curious task of economics is to demonstrate to men how little they really know about what they imagine they can design."--Friedrich August von Hayek

8 Golden Rules for EVE Online
lolzz Quekz
Federal Navy Academy
Gallente Federation
#1645 - 2017-06-12 09:50:57 UTC
Teckos Pech wrote:
lolzz Quekz wrote:
baltec1 wrote:
M3tamorph wrote:
Is CCP really ignoring all this posts and will not give a flying "panda" about the players and their opinions?

It's obvious that this will be worst change CCP already forced their paying customers... are we still going forward with this tomorrow???


No, they are just ignoring the bears bitching about having their golden goose castrated.

Too must isk flowing into the economy has been a problem for a while now and the single biggest cause is carriers/supers out in null. Revamping the way anoms work to stop this is a big task and will take too much time so they went with the easier option and nuked the problem ships.

This is not the worst change they have done, not even close. If you want your firepower back then start pushing for anoms to be revamped so they cannot flood the market with isk.


issue is they didnt nuke all the problem ships they only nuked the elitist problem ships which are also the end game some players are work towards. if they really wanted to control the isk income just nerf the ticks and that would be way easier than nerfing fighters.

and if they truly want to shut everyone up on this issue they should just issue a detailed report on bounty payout based on ship class by simply saying 140m tick must be super ratting and using it as a basis that all carrier and super carriers are making the same is not justifiable


Nonsense.

Look at the data FFS. ISK growth was pretty much flat for quite some time.


please attribute that to carrier ratting

like i mentioned unless ccp throw the statistics to indicate that carriers are the true cost to the spike that the only way to shut everyone up but shutting isk income and killing a ship pvp-wise along the way is just not justifiable
Teckos Pech
Hogyoku
Goonswarm Federation
#1646 - 2017-06-12 09:51:49 UTC
Petros K wrote:
Start


Middle

End


Plus about 200M in true sansha stuff , that makes it almost 1B in 21hours .
VNI , 5months old noob player .
Super chill ratting , i watched Logan (2+half hours movie , bet you cant do that while you rat with carrier )
3 Episodes of Blood-C
ALOT YOUTUBE
ALOT OF CHATTINGS
Ate breakfast , lunch and dinner .
Drunk 3 coffees
Played alot of matches in HS (also got a legendary card from pack! )




Sure , carriers is the problem .....


Now what is the same with a carrier ratting the same amount of time?

Seriously, you take an extreme case and pretend it is the norm.

Like I said, please do not go full moron.

"The curious task of economics is to demonstrate to men how little they really know about what they imagine they can design."--Friedrich August von Hayek

8 Golden Rules for EVE Online
RKJakTup
GloomWalkers
#1647 - 2017-06-12 09:52:58 UTC
Skill Deficiency wrote:
RKJakTup wrote:
and i lost 5 T2 fighter last week thats 50 mil. other ships dont spend 50 in ammo doing pve.


Than use the other ship; are you that bad at EVE you are not using the best ship for the job or is the ship worth using even with this draw back and thus your point is of little value or concern? Which is it? One ship is not going to be the best choice for everything in the game - get into some other ships and try them on for size.



your reply was almost not worth replying to... "Than use the other ship"... am i bad at eve if im not using the right ship for the job... this part just shows how dumb you are. but on the second part ill explain to you, about the 15%. so right now yes with the "drew back" of the amount of drones/isk im losing, it is still worth ratting in the ship. but after the 15% more likely to attk drone it may be too much. so how can my point about this is of little value? Value is subjective to personal feeling. but good job of looking like an ass.
baltec1
Bat Country
Pandemic Horde
#1648 - 2017-06-12 09:54:20 UTC
Kaze Mester wrote:


Well, this happens when you don't give new end content to players for years, more and more challenging stuff in every x period of time. (How other games do.) Giving more end content makes you fly more expensive ships, risk more isk, buy morre expensive fit on them...etc. A new loot system (with bind to player pve stuff only available through npc market) would redraw tonz of ingame isk from the game. Such as boosters...sell these kind of things and market isk problem solved in days.


No the problem is giving people the tools to abuse. They could have added a ton of great high end content but we would have had the same issue with a ton of isk entering the system due to carriers and supers making bank in anoms.
Youshi Yohimoto
Hostile.
PURPLE HELMETED WARRIORS
#1649 - 2017-06-12 09:57:53 UTC
Oh so because you don't like peoples honest opinions about your constant **** ups on trying to re-balance something you yourselfs broke to begin with, you go and delete all post that are pointing out how stupid decisions you do?

Wow! just wow! It's almost like North Korea here.

GG CCP for being money greedy o7
Teckos Pech
Hogyoku
Goonswarm Federation
#1650 - 2017-06-12 09:58:00 UTC
lolzz Quekz wrote:


please attribute that to carrier ratting

like i mentioned unless ccp throw the statistics to indicate that carriers are the true cost to the spike that the only way to shut everyone up but shutting isk income and killing a ship pvp-wise along the way is just not justifiable


Again, for most of 2016 ISK growth was flat...when VNI an Ishtars were around. Plenty of people could use them. Yet ISK growth was nearly flat. If drone boats in general were the problem...why was ISK growth so flat?

"The curious task of economics is to demonstrate to men how little they really know about what they imagine they can design."--Friedrich August von Hayek

8 Golden Rules for EVE Online
blaedin jordan
Federal Navy Academy
Gallente Federation
#1651 - 2017-06-12 09:58:22 UTC
Teckos Pech wrote:
Petros K wrote:
Start


Middle

End


Plus about 200M in true sansha stuff , that makes it almost 1B in 21hours .
VNI , 5months old noob player .
Super chill ratting , i watched Logan (2+half hours movie , bet you cant do that while you rat with carrier )
3 Episodes of Blood-C
ALOT YOUTUBE
ALOT OF CHATTINGS
Ate breakfast , lunch and dinner .
Drunk 3 coffees
Played alot of matches in HS (also got a legendary card from pack! )




Sure , carriers is the problem .....


Now what is the same with a carrier ratting the same amount of time?

Seriously, you take an extreme case and pretend it is the norm.

Like I said, please do not go full moron.


First of all, carrier ratting is NOT afk. You quickly lose more fighters than you earn in any anom if you try it, not to mention you have to actively send the fighters at targets...

Second, Paladins, Golems, Tengus, Rattlesnakes, and the list goes on...are ALL capable of making the same kind of ISK carriers can in an anom. Carriers are popular because they have jump drives, are end-game ships, look cool, and most people have trained for a year or longer to fly them. Nerfing carriers, and I mean this literally, isn't going to dent ISK generation. You'd have to be absolutely dense to think that enterprising players aren't going to quickly adapt and move around the nerf.

It's the dang principle that's the issue. CCP tried to slip this in an the last minute, bypassed our CSM, and made some stupid lie about how 1% of the players are the only one's affected (think of all the dudes in renting corps, low sec corps/alliances, wormholes, etc that use carriers too). Sure, ISK generation has skyrocketed. Their graph shows this, but have you thought to consider maybe it's because nullsec mechanics are garbage and warfare has basically ground to a halt? Why is that? ASK FOZZIE!
RKJakTup
GloomWalkers
#1652 - 2017-06-12 10:00:57 UTC
baltec1 wrote:
Kaze Mester wrote:


Well, this happens when you don't give new end content to players for years, more and more challenging stuff in every x period of time. (How other games do.) Giving more end content makes you fly more expensive ships, risk more isk, buy morre expensive fit on them...etc. A new loot system (with bind to player pve stuff only available through npc market) would redraw tonz of ingame isk from the game. Such as boosters...sell these kind of things and market isk problem solved in days.


No the problem is giving people the tools to abuse. They could have added a ton of great high end content but we would have had the same issue with a ton of isk entering the system due to carriers and supers making bank in anoms.


not really, i see what your trying to say but they can do it where you cant use caps to do some type of end game just by adding gates. and they can drop supcap mods to bring up the value of subcaps in pve and isk gathering. witch in turn ups the isk value of the ship witch is risk = reward
Teckos Pech
Hogyoku
Goonswarm Federation
#1653 - 2017-06-12 10:02:35 UTC
blaedin jordan wrote:
Teckos Pech wrote:
Petros K wrote:
Start


Middle

End


Plus about 200M in true sansha stuff , that makes it almost 1B in 21hours .
VNI , 5months old noob player .
Super chill ratting , i watched Logan (2+half hours movie , bet you cant do that while you rat with carrier )
3 Episodes of Blood-C
ALOT YOUTUBE
ALOT OF CHATTINGS
Ate breakfast , lunch and dinner .
Drunk 3 coffees
Played alot of matches in HS (also got a legendary card from pack! )




Sure , carriers is the problem .....


Now what is the same with a carrier ratting the same amount of time?

Seriously, you take an extreme case and pretend it is the norm.

Like I said, please do not go full moron.


First of all, carrier ratting is NOT afk. You quickly lose more fighters than you earn in any anom if you try it, not to mention you have to actively send the fighters at targets...

Second, Paladins, Golems, Tengus, Rattlesnakes, and the list goes on...are ALL capable of making the same kind of ISK carriers can in an anom. Carriers are popular because they have jump drives, are end-game ships, look cool, and most people have trained for a year or longer to fly them. Nerfing carriers, and I mean this literally, isn't going to dent ISK generation. You'd have to be absolutely dense to think that enterprising players aren't going to quickly adapt and move around the nerf.

It's the dang principle that's the issue. CCP tried to slip this in an the last minute, bypassed our CSM, and made some stupid lie about how 1% of the players are the only one's affected (think of all the dudes in renting corps, low sec corps/alliances, wormholes, etc that use carriers too). Sure, ISK generation has skyrocketed. Their graph shows this, but have you thought to consider maybe it's because nullsec mechanics are garbage and warfare has basically ground to a halt? Why is that? ASK FOZZIE!


No, it is the ISK entering the economy. You want it to be anything but your ISK printer. You are dodging, weaving, and bullshitting with nonsense.

Do you think that CCP can't do the following:

Graph ISK via ratting by ship type? I'm guessing they can. They did, and they said, "Whoops...****. Gotta fix that."

I'll grant you the fix is bad in that it gimps the ships for PVP. But that aside, those ships needed to be gimped for PVE/printing ISK. You were doing too much of it. Enjoy the ISK you got and stop complaining. The party's over and CCP took away the punch bowl.

"The curious task of economics is to demonstrate to men how little they really know about what they imagine they can design."--Friedrich August von Hayek

8 Golden Rules for EVE Online
lolzz Quekz
Federal Navy Academy
Gallente Federation
#1654 - 2017-06-12 10:05:03 UTC
Teckos Pech wrote:
lolzz Quekz wrote:


please attribute that to carrier ratting

like i mentioned unless ccp throw the statistics to indicate that carriers are the true cost to the spike that the only way to shut everyone up but shutting isk income and killing a ship pvp-wise along the way is just not justifiable


Again, for most of 2016 ISK growth was flat...when VNI an Ishtars were around. Plenty of people could use them. Yet ISK growth was nearly flat. If drone boats in general were the problem...why was ISK growth so flat?


have you considered that some might graduated into multibox SB ratting? and also political climate potentially encouraging/allowing more people to rat in relative safety in bigger ships?

similarly it was quoted that some alliances are encouraging full on rat mode in prep of the coming winter wars when moon mining is out can it be the cause of a sudden spike? moon mining was introduced in march the same time the spike started
Teckos Pech
Hogyoku
Goonswarm Federation
#1655 - 2017-06-12 10:05:29 UTC
RKJakTup wrote:
baltec1 wrote:
Kaze Mester wrote:


Well, this happens when you don't give new end content to players for years, more and more challenging stuff in every x period of time. (How other games do.) Giving more end content makes you fly more expensive ships, risk more isk, buy morre expensive fit on them...etc. A new loot system (with bind to player pve stuff only available through npc market) would redraw tonz of ingame isk from the game. Such as boosters...sell these kind of things and market isk problem solved in days.


No the problem is giving people the tools to abuse. They could have added a ton of great high end content but we would have had the same issue with a ton of isk entering the system due to carriers and supers making bank in anoms.


not really, i see what your trying to say but they can do it where you cant use caps to do some type of end game just by adding gates. and they can drop supcap mods to bring up the value of subcaps in pve and isk gathering. witch in turn ups the isk value of the ship witch is risk = reward


I'm sorry but...wat™?

This makes no sense.

"The curious task of economics is to demonstrate to men how little they really know about what they imagine they can design."--Friedrich August von Hayek

8 Golden Rules for EVE Online
Valdr Auduin
Sebiestor Tribe
Minmatar Republic
#1656 - 2017-06-12 10:07:56 UTC
Petros K wrote:
Start


Middle

End


Plus about 200M in true sansha stuff , that makes it almost 1B in 21hours .
VNI , 5months old noob player .
Super chill ratting , i watched Logan (2+half hours movie , bet you cant do that while you rat with carrier )
3 Episodes of Blood-C
ALOT YOUTUBE
ALOT OF CHATTINGS
Ate breakfast , lunch and dinner .
Drunk 3 coffees
Played alot of matches in HS (also got a legendary card from pack! )




Sure , carriers is the problem .....

Skill queue set.
Teckos Pech
Hogyoku
Goonswarm Federation
#1657 - 2017-06-12 10:09:42 UTC
lolzz Quekz wrote:
Teckos Pech wrote:
lolzz Quekz wrote:


please attribute that to carrier ratting

like i mentioned unless ccp throw the statistics to indicate that carriers are the true cost to the spike that the only way to shut everyone up but shutting isk income and killing a ship pvp-wise along the way is just not justifiable


Again, for most of 2016 ISK growth was flat...when VNI an Ishtars were around. Plenty of people could use them. Yet ISK growth was nearly flat. If drone boats in general were the problem...why was ISK growth so flat?


have you considered that some might graduated into multibox SB ratting? and also political climate potentially encouraging/allowing more people to rat in relative safety in bigger ships?

similarly it was quoted that some alliances are encouraging full on rat mode in prep of the coming winter wars when moon mining is out can it be the cause of a sudden spike? moon mining was introduced in march the same time the spike started


Not to this extent. If anything the argument: "Go rate like crazy we'll be having lots of wars" kinda fits with the narrative "carriers and supers are the problem." People went straight to the optimal ship for ISK printing.

As I pointed out a few pages back. The average monthly ISK growth was about 7 trillion ISK. Now last month it was 53 trillion. That is a 757% increase. 757%. Because people are in full ratting mode? Yeah...not buying explanation. Considering that kind of increase has NEVER been seen before.

"The curious task of economics is to demonstrate to men how little they really know about what they imagine they can design."--Friedrich August von Hayek

8 Golden Rules for EVE Online
Axy Sheytan
The Scope
Gallente Federation
#1658 - 2017-06-12 10:11:06 UTC
Teckos Pech wrote:
blaedin jordan wrote:
Teckos Pech wrote:
Petros K wrote:
Start


Middle

End


Plus about 200M in true sansha stuff , that makes it almost 1B in 21hours .
VNI , 5months old noob player .
Super chill ratting , i watched Logan (2+half hours movie , bet you cant do that while you rat with carrier )
3 Episodes of Blood-C
ALOT YOUTUBE
ALOT OF CHATTINGS
Ate breakfast , lunch and dinner .
Drunk 3 coffees
Played alot of matches in HS (also got a legendary card from pack! )




Sure , carriers is the problem .....


Now what is the same with a carrier ratting the same amount of time?

Seriously, you take an extreme case and pretend it is the norm.

Like I said, please do not go full moron.


First of all, carrier ratting is NOT afk. You quickly lose more fighters than you earn in any anom if you try it, not to mention you have to actively send the fighters at targets...

Second, Paladins, Golems, Tengus, Rattlesnakes, and the list goes on...are ALL capable of making the same kind of ISK carriers can in an anom. Carriers are popular because they have jump drives, are end-game ships, look cool, and most people have trained for a year or longer to fly them. Nerfing carriers, and I mean this literally, isn't going to dent ISK generation. You'd have to be absolutely dense to think that enterprising players aren't going to quickly adapt and move around the nerf.

It's the dang principle that's the issue. CCP tried to slip this in an the last minute, bypassed our CSM, and made some stupid lie about how 1% of the players are the only one's affected (think of all the dudes in renting corps, low sec corps/alliances, wormholes, etc that use carriers too). Sure, ISK generation has skyrocketed. Their graph shows this, but have you thought to consider maybe it's because nullsec mechanics are garbage and warfare has basically ground to a halt? Why is that? ASK FOZZIE!


No, it is the ISK entering the economy. You want it to be anything but your ISK printer. You are dodging, weaving, and bullshitting with nonsense.

Do you think that CCP can't do the following:

Graph ISK via ratting by ship type? I'm guessing they can. They did, and they said, "Whoops...****. Gotta fix that."

I'll grant you the fix is bad in that it gimps the ships for PVP. But that aside, those ships needed to be gimped for PVE/printing ISK. You were doing too much of it. Enjoy the ISK you got and stop complaining. The party's over and CCP took away the punch bowl.


Yes the party is over, and lost the ccp.
Bron Ander Haltern
Special Mining Ops Inc.
#1659 - 2017-06-12 10:11:18 UTC
Teckos Pech wrote:
lolzz Quekz wrote:


please attribute that to carrier ratting

like i mentioned unless ccp throw the statistics to indicate that carriers are the true cost to the spike that the only way to shut everyone up but shutting isk income and killing a ship pvp-wise along the way is just not justifiable


Again, for most of 2016 ISK growth was flat...when VNI an Ishtars were around. Plenty of people could use them. Yet ISK growth was nearly flat. If drone boats in general were the problem...why was ISK growth so flat?


That is just your speculations only not hard data. Probably CCP just follow your thoughts path and that is just truly sad. Plus one can earn twice as much isks smart bombing havens than ratting in a super. Unless CCP shows data that clearly says super/carriers are the main cause, the economy argument that stands behind the cut is ridiculous period.

Another sad thing is that whenever any constructive post will apear in this thread on the forum immidiately 2 or 3 persons with a lot of likes post tons of answers with long quotations covering it with gibberish :(.
blaedin jordan
Federal Navy Academy
Gallente Federation
#1660 - 2017-06-12 10:12:16 UTC  |  Edited by: blaedin jordan
Teckos Pech wrote:
blaedin jordan wrote:
Teckos Pech wrote:
Petros K wrote:
Start


Middle

End


Plus about 200M in true sansha stuff , that makes it almost 1B in 21hours .
VNI , 5months old noob player .
Super chill ratting , i watched Logan (2+half hours movie , bet you cant do that while you rat with carrier )
3 Episodes of Blood-C
ALOT YOUTUBE
ALOT OF CHATTINGS
Ate breakfast , lunch and dinner .
Drunk 3 coffees
Played alot of matches in HS (also got a legendary card from pack! )




Sure , carriers is the problem .....


Now what is the same with a carrier ratting the same amount of time?

Seriously, you take an extreme case and pretend it is the norm.

Like I said, please do not go full moron.


First of all, carrier ratting is NOT afk. You quickly lose more fighters than you earn in any anom if you try it, not to mention you have to actively send the fighters at targets...

Second, Paladins, Golems, Tengus, Rattlesnakes, and the list goes on...are ALL capable of making the same kind of ISK carriers can in an anom. Carriers are popular because they have jump drives, are end-game ships, look cool, and most people have trained for a year or longer to fly them. Nerfing carriers, and I mean this literally, isn't going to dent ISK generation. You'd have to be absolutely dense to think that enterprising players aren't going to quickly adapt and move around the nerf.

It's the dang principle that's the issue. CCP tried to slip this in an the last minute, bypassed our CSM, and made some stupid lie about how 1% of the players are the only one's affected (think of all the dudes in renting corps, low sec corps/alliances, wormholes, etc that use carriers too). Sure, ISK generation has skyrocketed. Their graph shows this, but have you thought to consider maybe it's because nullsec mechanics are garbage and warfare has basically ground to a halt? Why is that? ASK FOZZIE!


No, it is the ISK entering the economy. You want it to be anything but your ISK printer. You are dodging, weaving, and bullshitting with nonsense.

Do you think that CCP can't do the following:

Graph ISK via ratting by ship type? I'm guessing they can. They did, and they said, "Whoops...****. Gotta fix that."

I'll grant you the fix is bad in that it gimps the ships for PVP. But that aside, those ships needed to be gimped for PVE/printing ISK. You were doing too much of it. Enjoy the ISK you got and stop complaining. The party's over and CCP took away the punch bowl.



Your attempts to become an apologist for these devs and this horrendous nerf fall flat. Carriers don't print isk, they run anoms at the same speed as mauraders, and if anything enjoy a larger tank...but that doesn't help kill anything, does it? And yes, your right in that the nerf applies to PvP, which is probably the larger reason this nerf happened in the 1st place--to neuter Goon, PL, and other super-alliances capital fleets by 20% damage across the board for carriers and 10% for supercaps.

But to sit here and insinuate that the next graph isn't going to show the ISK "printing" hasn't shifted from carriers to (one of many other options next) is naive. So keep making excuses for them if you want, but don't expect people to believe you. If there's too much ISK coming into the game, they should fix sov mechanics so people are blowing things up again and work to add isk sinks. NOT to announce giant nerfs to ships people spent months on end training to get into 3 days before they go live--without testing--and without input from our elected CSM representatives.