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[June] Fighter Damage Reduction

First post First post First post
Author
lolzz Quekz
Federal Navy Academy
Gallente Federation
#1621 - 2017-06-12 07:59:17 UTC
Teckos Pech wrote:
Yuri Sarain wrote:
I see the sense of the changes due to ISK creating reasons, but I see a big problem when it comes to pvp. Thanks to low sensor strength the fighters are extremely easy to jam and due to larger signature radius also easy to kill. This makes carrier pretty much useless in pvp, as u can take them out with, for example, a singe griffin.


Conclusion: yes there needs to be less money created in pve with them, but nerfing them even more is a real problem in pvp.


Pretty much my view.


my point too honestly i am not a carrier pilot but it was my dream to be one i can forego carrier ratting to at least be able to use it in fleet action.

which is why i was suggesting why not just put a god damm phenom in all anoms to debuff fighters so that it can keep its usefulness in pvp
Teckos Pech
Hogyoku
Goonswarm Federation
#1622 - 2017-06-12 08:09:37 UTC
Petros K wrote:
Teckos Pech wrote:
[quote=Eric Lemmonte]
So...manufacturers should be screwed over because you are putting too much ISK into the economy with your carrier or super.




How much ISK do you estimate that a single decend carrier driver can generate every day ?


Apparently quite a bit once you look at the data. Enough to shift the money growth in a decidedly unhealthy way.

"The curious task of economics is to demonstrate to men how little they really know about what they imagine they can design."--Friedrich August von Hayek

8 Golden Rules for EVE Online

Axy Sheytan
The Scope
Gallente Federation
#1623 - 2017-06-12 08:13:38 UTC
Are you kidding me! Evil

This is a hell of a crush. Current plex price is 1.4b. On average, each player has 3 characters.

We have already got our monthly 5b already just for plex. Instead of dropping everything, try to enrich the game with new anomalies ... Correct the ships like the Vexorl navy issue, the Ishtar .

The guys are already doing all kinds of anomalies with them. Where is our sacrifice, where is ours. Look at enriching the game, not dropping it.

It's a shame you did. You've lost hundreds of thousands of players, just a few new brats.

Rest assured. We do not want to be abused because we like this game.

If you plan to make a plan according to the developing game economy and in-game inflation. Please put your hand in your conscience and re-evaluate ...AttentionAttentionAttention

(and Sorry my bad english translation)
schulleone
State War Academy
Caldari State
#1624 - 2017-06-12 08:13:55 UTC
CCP Larrikin wrote:
[img]http://web.ccpgamescdn.com/newssystem/media/71813/1/GermanFlag33.png[/img]  [img]http://cdn1.eveonline.com/community/devblog/FLAG_-_RUSSIAN-33.png[/img]

Hi Space Friends,
Coming with our release on Tuesday, we’re significantly reducing the damage output of Fighters.

Why:
We are making this change because Carriers & Supercarriers are too strong in PvE, specifically anomaly ratting in Nullsec. As you may have seen in the May Monthly Economy Report, there is a significant upward trend in the Money Supply. This is primarily due to NPC Bounties.

This trend is unsustainable. Having such a large ISK faucet is bad for the economy, and this ISK faucet is concentrated to a relatively small number of players.

We also think that Carriers and Supercarriers are a bit too effective in PvP now. This change will significantly change the PvP balance, but we’re confident that Carriers and Supercarriers will remain powerful options for PvP.

What:

  • Light Fighters (Attack): 20% reduction to Basic Attack and Heavy Rocket Salvo damage.
  • Heavy Fighters (Long Range Attack): 30% reduction to Basic Attack damage.



We will continue to observe the economy after these changes and will make adjustments as necessary to keep it healthy for all our players.



TL;DR: We are too lazy to develop real solutions for the economic issues caused by our skill injectors and low risk citadel mechanics. The capital meta is ****** up already anyway. So we just gonna **** up it even more to hotfix the economic issues.
Petros K
C5 Flight
Fraternity.
#1625 - 2017-06-12 08:16:19 UTC  |  Edited by: Petros K
Teckos Pech wrote:
Petros K wrote:
Teckos Pech wrote:
[quote=Eric Lemmonte]
So...manufacturers should be screwed over because you are putting too much ISK into the economy with your carrier or super.




How much ISK do you estimate that a single decend carrier driver can generate every day ?


Apparently quite a bit once you look at the data. Enough to shift the money growth in a decidedly unhealthy way.



Quite a bit isnt an answer , give me a good number . Lets asume a thanatos/nidd(decent fit , not godlike) that the driver can rat for .... 3 hours? maybe up to 5 before he gets TIRED because of actively playing (include in your estimation that the driver will have to dock for an unknown ammount of time in case danger enters in the system )

Now compare that ammount to a VNI that rats 24/7
M3tamorph
Center for Advanced Studies
Gallente Federation
#1626 - 2017-06-12 08:24:19 UTC
Is CCP really ignoring all this posts and will not give a flying "panda" about the players and their opinions?

It's obvious that this will be worst change CCP already forced their paying customers... are we still going forward with this tomorrow???
Axy Sheytan
The Scope
Gallente Federation
#1627 - 2017-06-12 08:33:50 UTC
M3tamorph wrote:
Is CCP really ignoring all this posts and will not give a flying "panda" about the players and their opinions?

It's obvious that this will be worst change CCP already forced their paying customers... are we still going forward with this tomorrow???


If these changes occur; Because of incompetent management, we leave this game, as thousands of people. Then ccp will play the game with afk players.
Valdr Auduin
Sebiestor Tribe
Minmatar Republic
#1628 - 2017-06-12 08:36:52 UTC
Just reading this thread has kept me from logging in the past two days, I almost even jumped back into Sky Nations to get the same gameplay features I enjoy here and it's a chincy ten-dollar minecraft-with-ships knockoff, but alas, it no longer seems to work, so here I am getting my shipping fix.
Kaze Mester
Perkone
Caldari State
#1629 - 2017-06-12 08:38:31 UTC  |  Edited by: Kaze Mester
M3tamorph wrote:
Is CCP really ignoring all this posts and will not give a flying "panda" about the players and their opinions?

It's obvious that this will be worst change CCP already forced their paying customers... are we still going forward with this tomorrow???


Nope, they have not and will not for sure (give a flyingf). They will just do it. Fu*k the community.

But at least we could plan 4 days!!! ahead so i could unsubscribe fast, before my accounts renewed.

The worst would be if they announced that they won't implement this "update" (downdate) and will figure out something else, and made a lot of us resubscribe...than do it anyways. Oh...am i giving good ideas to you CCP?
Teckos Pech
Hogyoku
Goonswarm Federation
#1630 - 2017-06-12 08:41:02 UTC
Petros K wrote:
Teckos Pech wrote:
Petros K wrote:
Teckos Pech wrote:
[quote=Eric Lemmonte]
So...manufacturers should be screwed over because you are putting too much ISK into the economy with your carrier or super.




How much ISK do you estimate that a single decend carrier driver can generate every day ?


Apparently quite a bit once you look at the data. Enough to shift the money growth in a decidedly unhealthy way.



Quite a bit isnt an answer , give me a good number . Lets asume a thanatos/nidd(decent fit , not godlike) that the driver can rat for .... 3 hours? maybe up to 5 before he gets TIRED because of actively playing (include in your estimation that the driver will have to dock for an unknown ammount of time in case danger enters in the system )

Now compare that ammount to a VNI that rats 24/7


A VNI ratting 24/7. Please don't go full moron. Roll

"The curious task of economics is to demonstrate to men how little they really know about what they imagine they can design."--Friedrich August von Hayek

8 Golden Rules for EVE Online

Bron Ander Haltern
Special Mining Ops Inc.
#1631 - 2017-06-12 08:41:23 UTC  |  Edited by: Bron Ander Haltern
The problem is that all these nerf changes both fighters and ror cuts above all hit directly the casual player that has one or two accounts because sharks will always adopt to the situation and they got enough money to change profile of their ventures. CCP made a lot of mistakes that where mentioned earlier like for example new sov, skill injectors, citadels mechanic so to mention a few. Simple cuts in fighter and ror stats will not solve the economic problem of eve market because they lead to another cuts in other places and so on and on and on, that is not a solution! And we all know that game is not in balance already.

I have struggled a lot to get to the place where I will be able to fly caps since it was my high end (ultimate goal) in the game but tomorrow my amarr and caldari super/carriers will become pure garbage and I assure you that does not concern only 1% of the 1% of players.

Fighters cuts will make changes in areas of pve, pvp and citadel defense possibilities so it is not simple cut it will more certainly trigger more cuts and it will not solve the market problem first of all.

The tomorrow hasty, introduced without consultations and tests patch will affect world of EVE tremendously and will change wiev of a lot of players on the game.

If CCP wanted to curb the market it would cut bounties or limit the amounts of clients per computer and amount of pumped isks to the system would diminish next day.

I say again CCP do not follow that path!
Kaze Mester
Perkone
Caldari State
#1632 - 2017-06-12 08:49:09 UTC
Bron Ander Haltern wrote:
The problem is that all these nerf changes both fighters and ror cuts above all hit directly the casual player that has one or two accounts because sharks will always adopt to the situation and they got enough money to change profile of their ventures. CCP made a lot of mistakes that where mentioned earlier like for example new sov, skill injectors, citadels mechanic so to mention a few. Simple cuts in fighter and ror stats will not solve the economic problem of eve market because they lead to another cuts in other places and so on and on and on, that is not a solution! And we all know that game is not in balance already.

I have struggled a lot to get to the place where I will be able to fly caps since it was my high end (ultimate goal) in the game but tomorrow my amarr and caldari super/carriers will become pure garbage and I assure you that does not concern only 1% of the 1% of players.

Fighters cuts will make changes in areas of pve, pvp and citadel defense possibilities so it is not simple cut it will more certain trigger more cuts and it will not solve the market problem first of all.

The tomorrow hasty, introduced without consultations and tests patch will affect world of EVE tremendously and will change wiev of a lot of players on the game.

If CCP wanted to curb the market it would cut bounties or limit the amounts of clients per computer and amount of pumped isks to the system would diminish next day.

I say again CCP do not follow that path!


I'm not sure after 3 days of discussion here, including giving ideas (good or bad, doesn't matter) and CCP is still quiet about this...will sure follow that path. Im getting more and more concerned about that this is about something else...economy blabla was just a misleading (by the way true) info.
Miss 'Assassination' Cayman
CK-0FF
Intergalactic Space Hobos
#1633 - 2017-06-12 09:06:27 UTC
To be fair, the last couple days have been the weekend so CCP employees haven't necessarily been around to keep track of what's going on. That is kind of the downside of announcing a change on Friday when it needs to be set in stone on Monday though...
Analius Glover
State War Academy
Caldari State
#1634 - 2017-06-12 09:14:40 UTC
Miss 'Assassination' Cayman wrote:
To be fair, the last couple days have been the weekend so CCP employees haven't necessarily been around to keep track of what's going on. That is kind of the downside of announcing a change on Friday when it needs to be set in stone on Monday though...



Funny because according to CCP FoxFour " we don't like to do deployments on Fridays"
lolzz Quekz
Federal Navy Academy
Gallente Federation
#1635 - 2017-06-12 09:16:33 UTC  |  Edited by: lolzz Quekz
ccp_falcon was on ytd in reddit

[–]CCP_FalconCCP Games 212 points 1 day ago
This is actually a fantastic breakdown of how you see the situation. Thanks for sharing it.
I'll point the relevant people in the direction of this post - really nicely put together dude :)

they are avoiding the fighter threads no one wants to give us a proper explanation after the powder keg exploded in quant's face :x
Will Swiftsure
Sebiestor Tribe
Minmatar Republic
#1636 - 2017-06-12 09:19:23 UTC
Yolo CCP Larrakin!

Maybe you can do a 12% dps nerf and only a 3% nerf to the fighter missiles and perhaps a 3% signature radius increase on fighters? Sort of a middle ground wich would reward the skillful players some instead of a 250% nerf across the board.
baltec1
Bat Country
Pandemic Horde
#1637 - 2017-06-12 09:23:13 UTC
M3tamorph wrote:
Is CCP really ignoring all this posts and will not give a flying "panda" about the players and their opinions?

It's obvious that this will be worst change CCP already forced their paying customers... are we still going forward with this tomorrow???


No, they are just ignoring the bears bitching about having their golden goose castrated.

Too must isk flowing into the economy has been a problem for a while now and the single biggest cause is carriers/supers out in null. Revamping the way anoms work to stop this is a big task and will take too much time so they went with the easier option and nuked the problem ships.

This is not the worst change they have done, not even close. If you want your firepower back then start pushing for anoms to be revamped so they cannot flood the market with isk.
Kaze Mester
Perkone
Caldari State
#1638 - 2017-06-12 09:30:52 UTC
baltec1 wrote:
M3tamorph wrote:
Is CCP really ignoring all this posts and will not give a flying "panda" about the players and their opinions?

It's obvious that this will be worst change CCP already forced their paying customers... are we still going forward with this tomorrow???


No, they are just ignoring the bears bitching about having their golden goose castrated.

Too must isk flowing into the economy has been a problem for a while now and the single biggest cause is carriers/supers out in null. Revamping the way anoms work to stop this is a big task and will take too much time so they went with the easier option and nuked the problem ships.

This is not the worst change they have done, not even close. If you want your firepower back then start pushing for anoms to be revamped so they cannot flood the market with isk.


Well, this happens when you don't give new end content to players for years, more and more challenging stuff in every x period of time. (How other games do.) Giving more end content makes you fly more expensive ships, risk more isk, buy morre expensive fit on them...etc. A new loot system (with bind to player pve stuff only available through npc market) would redraw tonz of ingame isk from the game. Such as boosters...sell these kind of things and market isk problem solved in days.
Teckos Pech
Hogyoku
Goonswarm Federation
#1639 - 2017-06-12 09:38:11 UTC
Kaze Mester wrote:
baltec1 wrote:
M3tamorph wrote:
Is CCP really ignoring all this posts and will not give a flying "panda" about the players and their opinions?

It's obvious that this will be worst change CCP already forced their paying customers... are we still going forward with this tomorrow???


No, they are just ignoring the bears bitching about having their golden goose castrated.

Too must isk flowing into the economy has been a problem for a while now and the single biggest cause is carriers/supers out in null. Revamping the way anoms work to stop this is a big task and will take too much time so they went with the easier option and nuked the problem ships.

This is not the worst change they have done, not even close. If you want your firepower back then start pushing for anoms to be revamped so they cannot flood the market with isk.


Well, this happens when you don't give new end content to players for years, more and more challenging stuff in every x period of time. (How other games do.) Giving more end content makes you fly more expensive ships, risk more isk, buy morre expensive fit on them...etc. A new loot system (with bind to player pve stuff only available through npc market) would redraw tonz of ingame isk from the game. Such as boosters...sell these kind of things and market isk problem solved in days.


No, it is not lack of "new content". It is a problem with carriers/supers when used for ratting.

I agree it is not good to screw over carrier/super pilots with respect to PvP. And I would really prefer it if CCP looked into alternative solutions. But posting nonsense, rage jibberish, and so forth is not going to convince CCP.

"The curious task of economics is to demonstrate to men how little they really know about what they imagine they can design."--Friedrich August von Hayek

8 Golden Rules for EVE Online

lolzz Quekz
Federal Navy Academy
Gallente Federation
#1640 - 2017-06-12 09:40:12 UTC
baltec1 wrote:
M3tamorph wrote:
Is CCP really ignoring all this posts and will not give a flying "panda" about the players and their opinions?

It's obvious that this will be worst change CCP already forced their paying customers... are we still going forward with this tomorrow???


No, they are just ignoring the bears bitching about having their golden goose castrated.

Too must isk flowing into the economy has been a problem for a while now and the single biggest cause is carriers/supers out in null. Revamping the way anoms work to stop this is a big task and will take too much time so they went with the easier option and nuked the problem ships.

This is not the worst change they have done, not even close. If you want your firepower back then start pushing for anoms to be revamped so they cannot flood the market with isk.


issue is they didnt nuke all the problem ships they only nuked the elitist problem ships which are also the end game some players are work towards. if they really wanted to control the isk income just nerf the ticks and that would be way easier than nerfing fighters.

and if they truly want to shut everyone up on this issue they should just issue a detailed report on bounty payout based on ship class by simply saying 140m tick must be super ratting and using it as a basis that all carrier and super carriers are making the same is not justifiable