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[June] Fighter Damage Reduction

First post First post First post
Author
Pier Rin
Lex Frisionum
#61 - 2017-06-09 10:46:51 UTC  |  Edited by: Pier Rin
Maybe if you would not have introduced skill injectors there would not have been a problem????

Less carrier/super pilot, less rorqs, no need for nerfs????

And with every nerf/fix, 2 more problems pop up, please dont fix whats not broken.
Zduhac Aldent
The Scope
Gallente Federation
#62 - 2017-06-09 10:46:55 UTC
Lucy Callagan wrote:
This is a very good change.

Both for the game balance health and the tears it entails.



It is funny for you now, but what if you invested so much time and effort into something that will become meaningless now, how would you feel?
Pepizaur
The Scope
Gallente Federation
#63 - 2017-06-09 10:46:57 UTC
This seems ham fisted but at least there are eyes on the problem. My question is why the anoms themselves aren't being looked at. It is very clear that when they were designed and the iterations to them since they were never meant to interact with the new fighter mechanics. I'm hoping this has lit a fire under your ass to revamp nullsec anomalies as a whole. If and when (plz tell me this is being worked on) this unintended interaction is fixed do you plan on reverting some of these ham fisted nerfs? The DPS nerf to SR FiBos seems strange and oh let's not forget you're announcing these changes 4 days ahead of time. 4 days? Why shoot yourself in the PR foot like this?
Nex Gaius
RAS CL4RT
#64 - 2017-06-09 10:47:13 UTC
Yet another quality game change. Lets nerf all the high time / isk investment options. But not the ez ones like Wormholes or Incursions. Have you maybe taught of just nerfing the Rat Bounty instead of changing something that effect pvp as-well. Also nice nerf pass on the fighters and you still haven't fixed the Shadows. (Because 3.3bil isk DD totally worth it right guys?)

Gotta love CCP Dev team who changes the dumbest things. Lets add Fatigue so we can't have events like Asakai and B-R something which increased the player base so much.

Maybe if you made it so the content was easier to make the sink wouldn't get clogged with the crap content generation hairball you left in it...

:thinking: You are devs for a job and you basically drive players away with your changes... good way to keep a job right???
Querns
GoonWaffe
Goonswarm Federation
#65 - 2017-06-09 10:47:51 UTC
Don't forget to remove some EHP and/or self-rep capability from NPC dreads while you're doing this change. Right now, a carrier's only barely able to overcome the local repair of NPC dreads. Removing this much damage from light fighters is going to make a carrier unable to kill them.

This post was crafted by the wormhole expert of the Goonswarm Economic Warfare Cabal, the foremost authority on Eve: Online economics and gameplay.

Huydo
Liga Freier Terraner
Northern Coalition.
#66 - 2017-06-09 10:47:56 UTC
What about ECM vs Carrier?

Its still Possible to Perma Jam all the fighters with only one cheap t1 ecm frig. Its just ... not balanced.

Jonas Skypilot
Horde Armada
Pandemic Horde
#67 - 2017-06-09 10:48:00 UTC
Well, isn`t 30% Basic Attack Dmg for Heavy Fighter too much? I can understand that Supers/Carrier are stong in PVE, but could`t we just reduce it like for 5/10 % for heafy fighter dmg and the light fighter dmg for 5% and balance/nerf Incursions more?
UghUghBlink
Sassura
Sassy's Corporation
#68 - 2017-06-09 10:49:54 UTC
Kestrel Clairvoyant wrote:
Sassura wrote:
CCP, why don't you just cut to the chase and delete Delve from the map.

All those Goons packed in there, making tons of isk, mining all that ore and building a ton of stuff. Playing your game in a way that you don't want.

Then no one else would have to deal with the nerfs to mining and ratting to fix eve. There wouldn't be any need to nerf the carriers and supers that defend the too prosperous region and we can mine without timers in the rest of new eden.



Buhuu, so its our fault we play EVE and actually make ISK in it? Like Delve is biggest problem in game..jesus...get some common sense... all you haters can go f yourself back to whatever HS dump you crawled from...


Mm Mine n Refine. That explains the dumb. Kick Mine N Refine ;)

I'm not laying any blame. I was simply offering CCP a clear suggestion on how to fix their perceived problems which would avoid nerfs that impact everyone but are aimed at a region that should not be named.


Rivr Luzade
Coreli Corporation
Pandemic Legion
#69 - 2017-06-09 10:50:00 UTC  |  Edited by: Rivr Luzade
Tiesto DJ wrote:
Rivr Luzade wrote:
Can you please delete VNI and Isthars from the game first before you tinker with fighters? They are by far the bigger problem in this game when it comes to ratting.

Having tons of VNIshtars clog up Havens, Sanctums and Hubs is not sustainable and huge annoyance to any player except for these AFK people.


Read as, **** off VNI/Ishtars. I want Sacs to myself and dont touch obvious op fighters.

Got a problem with this, scared forum alt? If there are many carriers and supers ratting (even battleships and marauders) in a system and the VNIshtars take 3x to 10x as long to finish an anomaly, they just keep everyone from making money. They can, for all I care, put 2 VNIshtars in the same anomaly, for instance. This makes them finish these anoms faster and help everyone. But they cannot AFK rat any more with this, obviously. My entire problem is this AFK attitude as well as that they are so incredibly slow.

UI Improvement Collective

My ridicule, heavy criticism and general pale outlook about your or CCP's ideas is nothing but an encouragement to prove me wrong. Give it a try.

Lucy Callagan
This Game Is Terrible
Warlords of the Deep
#70 - 2017-06-09 10:50:20 UTC
Zduhac Aldent wrote:
Lucy Callagan wrote:
This is a very good change.

Both for the game balance health and the tears it entails.



It is funny for you now, but what if you invested so much time and effort into something that will become meaningless now, how would you feel?


I would get over it because when I was a kid, my mother taught me how to cope with frustration.
Peter Moonlight
Suddenly Carebears
Singularity Syndicate
#71 - 2017-06-09 10:51:03 UTC
I don't make ISK with a carrier/super and I have never done it before, but I do have a super which I use for PVP on daily basis.
This seems like a change that WILL nerf PVE, but also small gang super pvp, and it won't matter for big groups using supers at all.
Nerfing/boosting ships, shouldn't be one sided, when you nerf one you need to think of a bigger picture how that will affect things..

People were ratting in Ishtars/VNI/carriers, rorquals came, people trained into rorquals, they are getting nerfed to being useless while decently fitted they are more than half price of a super.

1. Capital / big scale PVP is quite stagnant, specially capital pvp, majority of nullsec regions is safe for PVEing and some of the regions are almost perfectly safe PVE havens.
2. Moving supers in low/null is 100% safe with citadels, along with that removing a citadel is major pain in the ass
3. Lowsec groups are having their passive moongoo isk removed, and I'm pretty sure it will negatively affect groups that PVP a lot and use those moons for SRP.
4. Lowsec doesn't have really any ISK making oportunities or nothing that could even compare to nullsec, where nullsec is being much more inaccessible therefore making it really safe PVE havens

There's a lot more things to say but most of people know them. But, making people train rorquals then nerfing them, people using carriers and supers, then nerfing those too, completely changing/nerfing the only income of lowsec groups, nerfing and completely killing all life in high class wormhole space and many other things is really bad.

Eventually everyone is forced to go and live in nullsec when you count all the changes CCP has made, and nullsec is not that great either, people just farm, there's nothing to fight over, regions are safe for pve, inaccessible, spammed with 100s/1000s of citadels/structures and some would say that the SOV conquering mechanics are bad.

Our corporation does med-gang pvp in lowsec and we also use supers/capitals as a force multiplier, therefore this will affect us.

First reaction from a corp mate to this thread: http://i.imgur.com/yP0HR0S.png
Skruff McGruff
The Scope
Gallente Federation
#72 - 2017-06-09 10:54:22 UTC
wow. just wow. as someone who recently got into capitals and has extracted skills to fly different things this is seriously disheartening. I don't fly alts I'm not wrecking the economy with 4 rorqs and 4 hulk pilots mining colossal on repeat. I don't have all the time in the world to dedicate to isk making I have a very busy work schedule. and now you've nerfed both ships I just got into to help support my one toon and be able to afford things with my limited play time. on top of that, how can you not see that its not null carriers that are destroying the economy? its the damn plex. that **** is outrageous right now. look at the price of injectors and extractors. if anything I would be thinking our null carriers are ratting to pay for pvp ships which in turn will be lost at some point and that isk never really does that much to the economy. to make rats target the fighters more so it costs carrier pilots more money to play the way they should be able to play. if they are so OP as you like to say, why do I constantly read about carriers getting blown up, capped out, etc etc. To me it looks like you folks are scrambling to try and stop the economic climb of isk but really haven't figured out the main reason so youre just gonna nerf all the money making options one by one. What about exploration? I had a friend that made 550mil in a couple hours doing that just yesterday. That's way more than a ratting carrier will make in that amount of time, at least a T1 Carrier pilot. The way you go about this is pretty frustrating as well. I literally changed my toon out yesterday for this, and then today, 4 days before you enact these amazing changes, you pretty much dissolve the return on my investment. The train for these ships is long, arduous, and the rewards should match this. 30% to heavy fighters? Look how expensive the Hel is!! Sure people can make them with their own materials but then do something about that. Increase the change for fighters to get popped? Great so now 1/3 of our nerfed income can go to replacing our fighters, which are also expensive? Stop hurting the honest players who are just trying to have some fun and live their life. the rorq is one thing, that's totally passive, but still there is an element of risk to it. carriers are super active, you cannot passively make isk with them. you cannot drop drones, orbit at 100, and collect. I think a greater look needs to be given to the actual problem here instead of trial and error nerfing. To quote the great Bill S Preston Esq and Ted Theodore Logan, "This is most non-triumphant."
Krypleria
Dreddit
Test Alliance Please Ignore
#73 - 2017-06-09 10:55:04 UTC  |  Edited by: Krypleria
OK CCP, let me get this straight ...

VNI ratting = 12-15m/tick (ship cost 100m)
Ishtar ratting = 20-25m/tick (ship cost 300m)
Carrier tick = 40-60m/tick (ship cost 2.5b)
Super tick = 80-100m/tick (ship cost 25-30b)

Seems balanced to me.

Do you guys even play this game ? =/

You will lose so many players because of this... it will hurt the economy of CCP ... not the game =/

Can you think of OTHER solutions to the economy problem ?
tbms
Aliastra
Gallente Federation
#74 - 2017-06-09 10:55:47 UTC
time too stop playing !
Kaoraku Shayiskhun
The 1st Regiment
Brave Collective
#75 - 2017-06-09 10:56:16 UTC
Lucy Callagan wrote:
To all the people complaining that : "I can't plex my account anymore, ccp is so greedy they want me to pay it with RL money"

Don't you understant that all the plexes that are in the game have been bought on CCP's website and therefore paying the sub in plex or RL money makes no difference to ccp ?


It will, couse if people not buy it for ISK, nobody will have to buy it from CCP. And since PLEX is more expensive then subscribe (maybe now i ****** it and it will be adjusted) CCP have more income from the PLEX market. So yeah. If people cannot plex their account, they will leave, and CCP will feel it. There have to be a pretty fair balance
Rovinia
Exotic Dancers Union
SONS of BANE
#76 - 2017-06-09 10:56:26 UTC
Nobody likes to see his toy nerfed, but as it seems this was really an issue. So thanks for tackling it, even if it's surely a unpopular move.

Wouldn't a combination of applicaton nerf and a change in the NPC spawns in these sites (some more smaller ships the carrier has longer to chew on) have been better then this damage reduction? It put's the carrier in a difficult position PvP wise.

Meridon Arthas
The Scope
Gallente Federation
#77 - 2017-06-09 10:57:40 UTC
Krypleria wrote:
OK CCP, let me get this straight ...

VNI ratting = 12-15m/tick (ship cost 40m)
Ishtar ratting = 20-25m/tick (ship cost 300m)
Carrier tick = 40-60m/tick (ship cost 2.5b)
Super tick = 80-100m/tick (ship cost 25-30b)

Seems balanced to me.

Do you guys even play this game ? =/

You will lose so many players because of this... it will hurt the economy of CCP ... not the game =/

Can you think of OTHER solutions to the economy problem ?



40M VNI ? Damn, Can u contract me some plz ?

Full VNI fitted is 100M. and I did 18-20M tick
Abagah Khan
Deep Core Mining Inc.
Caldari State
#78 - 2017-06-09 10:59:08 UTC
Krypleria wrote:
OK CCP, let me get this straight ...

VNI ratting = 12-15m/tick (ship cost 40m)
Ishtar ratting = 20-25m/tick (ship cost 300m)
Carrier tick = 40-60m/tick (ship cost 2.5b)
Super tick = 80-100m/tick (ship cost 25-30b)

Seems balanced to me.

Do you guys even play this game ? =/

You will lose so many players because of this... it will hurt the economy of CCP ... not the game =/

Can you think of OTHER solutions to the economy problem ?




what kind of poor is using a carrier that is only 2.5bn fit....
Moonlight Mernher
The Dysfunctionals
Goonswarm Federation
#79 - 2017-06-09 10:59:15 UTC
How about simply making anomalies' respawn timers longer? That would make en masse carrier/super ratting actually harder in terms of single system usage whilst not touching in large their pvp capabilities.
FlexiusVII
Aliastra
Gallente Federation
#80 - 2017-06-09 10:59:56 UTC  |  Edited by: FlexiusVII
Ew. Double carrier ratting just died for me. Gonna unpack my Ishtars and rat with 4-ish alts. Less effort, more money.

Adapt or die.

Practice makes perfect.