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[June] Fighter Damage Reduction

First post First post First post
Author
Iv d'Este
Private Security Squad
State Public Defenders
#501 - 2017-06-09 15:36:35 UTC
I would like to remind dear CCP that fighters are used not only in PvE, but also in PvP. And in particular on the citadels.

If for any Pandemic Legion - no matter how much damage the carrier and supercarrier has done (PL can bring 100-150 carriers in grid), then for small alliances that are drops carriers or supercarriers and then try to escape - this is a serious blow.

If your goal is to reduce revenue from anomalies, could you think of something with the anomalies themselves, and not with carriers and supercarriers, which are also a tool for PvP of small formations in situations where you need to inflict a lot of damage in a short time, while you are not killed.

You also reduce the defense of citadels.
Joco Skljoco
Science and Trade Institute
Caldari State
#502 - 2017-06-09 15:37:09 UTC
CCP is bunch of greedy and incompetent individuals...U Are making changes based on your monthly economy reports....assume that you target delve Region and Imperium...but CCP forgot one important fact...Delve region has at least 30000 players with best organization and its normal to have strongest economy.The real problems of EVE u are putting aside.With Citadels u are kill PVP on stations,with skill injectors u are **** up everthing....No quality changes in the last five years,except command destoyers..U promised many things and accomplish nothing. Trying to take money for nothing.
Honestly EVE is old, shabby, tired horse that pulls the failed releases, such as Dust and Valkyrie....EVE players need to pay for CCP incompetence.The only thing that keeps EVE alive is EVE Community and average player. Do not treat us as like people with developmental disabilities

Last five moths I was ratting to 6 hours per day to buy Supercarrier and I trained skills for 6 moths and CCP say to me now, that I did it for nothing...CCP Larrikin do you think that the average EVE player live long as turtles???

To CCP Larrikin..... You are not our space friend...We can not be friends,,You are in EVE because of money, I'm in EVE because I love EVE.

Maybe it's time that Eve died on this PC...CCP Good Job
SurrenderMonkey
The Exchange Collective
Solyaris Chtonium
#503 - 2017-06-09 15:37:56 UTC
HRRNighthawk wrote:
Instead of nerfing Carriers, which you actively have to control the fighters to make your money (and not get them killed), how about you do something about AFK VNIs?



Do you actually think this distinction matters in the context of the money supply? They know how much ISK is being generated by each ship in a given period of time.

They're not "doing something" about AFK VNIs because they're trying to address the money supply problem, not the problem of carrier pilots who are ass-sore that VNI pilots are getting much smaller ticks for much less effort.

"Help, I'm bored with missions!"

http://swiftandbitter.com/eve/wtd/

Admiral Sarah Solette
Lmao Ty For Structure
#504 - 2017-06-09 15:38:06 UTC  |  Edited by: Admiral Sarah Solette
Lmfao VNIs will continue to be an ez mode 20m per hour that can be multiboxed with minimal effort, but god forbid the ships that cost way more than a cruiser and need to be actively managed to pull ticks make isk even somewhat proportionate to their cost, right?

The worst part about this, is it's not even just a PvE nerf. No, you nerf the PvP aspect of an already gimped ship class that you already nerfed to the ground a couple months ago. As if the 300% increase in fighter sig and the tracking nerfs weren't enough, now LR fibos get a 30% reduction in damage as well?

Hey CCP, when was the last time one of you sat in a super and PvPd? Especially against a gang of AB Armor cruisers, or T3s? They can pretty much permanently tank a super. Let that sink in for a second. A 100m isk cruiser, can permatank a 30b isk ship. Because I guess balance is a thing. We're also not even getting into fighters being incredibly easy to defang or jam out.

Honestly, if you're going to nerf something, how about you actually try it out for yourself in an actual combat situation before you go full ****** on an entire class of ships? Thanks.

Oh, and while we're at it, can we talk about the 0 risk hi sec incursions that you can practically afk in and pull higher ticks than a super will be pulling after this patch? You know, if you're so concerned with that isk facet and everything.
Dengdeng Xiao
Mechanical Force of Vision
#505 - 2017-06-09 15:38:08 UTC
"We will continue to observe the economy after these changes and will make adjustments as necessary to keep it healthy for all our players."
"all our players"? let me see.....you mean, the multi box players?
Mida Akhiko
Center for Advanced Studies
Gallente Federation
#506 - 2017-06-09 15:38:51 UTC
My main complaint with this is that I feel these actions are being taken a little too aggressively.

If you look at all of the monthly economic reports since the start of the year, every month, the economy lost active isk. This totaled to some 141.5 Trillion active isk lost. Every month so far this has been the case. The only exception to this trend was May. Carrier changes happened well before May.

Before I continue, I'd like to make the assertion that faucet or not, it doesn't really matter, because the net effect on the economy of any one given action is what matters.

For the past 3 months, the economy has had less and less active isk. May was the first time this year the economy gained active isk, and it was a paltry 15t, compared to the 141.5 that was lost from it. Something to keep in mind, carriers were not changed at the start of May to make them suddenly better to cause this. If you guys are insistent on making the economy lose isk, then the issue lies in something else.

My best guess would be what is the issue is more people ratting to this degree, not the quality of this type of ratting. The main reason I say it this way is there is going to be a baseline. Nerfing income is like whack-a-mole. So you've nerfed supers and carriers, okay. Most of these pilots are experienced members of the community. For a good number of them, they are going to then look at the money they are making, look at other options, and then move over to other said options. You could nerf Supers to the floor, but that isn't going to stop these pilots from making that level of isk. Think of it this way, how many people know a guy that used to super rat, but with the recent injector addition, have switched over to just farming that instead?

Basically, nerfing an isk faucet is a waste of time, because all that will do is push people over to the next isk faucet. If you want to make meaningful changes to the faucet nature of the game, you either have to nerf all of the faucets so that people don't just move down one rung, or you have to give the isk a place to go.

Looking at the economy reports, the far more troubling issue for the economy is that the places that isk can go into has been dwindling. This is probably due to the nature of citadels, as well as people starting to wind down pos usage due to incoming changes.

You say that having such a large isk faucet is bad for the game? I would challenge that by saying it is good for the game, as that is the only LOCAL isk faucet that most people have access to. Most people are null players, hate to say it, but its true. What you need to do is not blanket nerf that faucet, you need to make it dynamic to encourage movement. What makes sense to me, make it so that regions get fatigue(but only in extreme ratting levels), but regenerate it quickly. This would then encourage people to invade their neighbors for areas because their area doesn't pay out as much anymore. You need to encourage people to spend, not encourage people to not do something.

The problem is, which citadels being infinitely anchorable in a system, you guys kinda screwed the pooch and made it so that people are just too entrenched. If you have to clear 30 citadels out of a system to take it with some security, you probably are going to be reluctant to do that. You speak of weaponized boredom and stopping that, well, welcome to the citadel version. Where for a mere 1 billion isk, you can continue to bore you enemies for another week.

tl;dr: The problem isn't making the isk, its that there's no real encouragement to spend it.
Illyria Mimikry
Literally The Worst Community
#507 - 2017-06-09 15:39:02 UTC
Once again, instead of nerfing what you have to : the crazy amount of anomaly a system car generte and stack, you nerf the pirate bs, you nerf the carrier...

Cap the amunt of anomaly a system car generate by 1 every 5 min, you'll see people spreading through systems, you'll see everyone enjoying more content, you'll see more small entity instead of everyone afk farming in delve...

But no, you right, keep killing you game. One more step, it's already almost dead.
Trespasser
S0utherN Comfort
#508 - 2017-06-09 15:39:03 UTC
ok so im starting to see a pattern here, you dont want pirate battleships used in fleets and now it would seem you don't want people to effectively make money in carriers or supers either.

JC Mieyli
the united
#509 - 2017-06-09 15:39:34 UTC
Jenn aSide wrote:
It only looks like a conspiracy to people too shortsighted to understand that CCP is helping everyone (including the carrier ratters) with the changes they are making.

You are too young in the game to know this but there used to be a time when getting a pirate ship BPCs from a 10/10 or a lucky commander spawn in an anomaly was like hitting the lottery. Now (because or supers and carriers ratting and because CCP turned up escalation chances too high) getting a pirate ship BPC or some deadspace mods from a 10/10 is like finding a penny on the ground aka no big deal.

The only problem with what CCP is doing is it weakens carriers and supers in some pvp situations, but PVE and economy wise CCp is helping everyone by increasing the value of all of the isk in all of our wallets.

It will be ok, the 1st time one of these crying super/carrier pilots sells an escalation for 350-400 mil (like it used to be) instead of 50 to 130 mil like they are now they will forget all of this crying they did lol.

well you seem to think this change will mean pirate bpcs will suddenly be worth 1bn each again
except youre forgetting the wealthy players who already stockpile a bunch of pirate bses
and they paid maybe 200-300m to produce or buy them
who is going to buy a bpc for 1bn when a wealthy hoarder can sell a fully manufactured pirate bs for 999m
all the way down to the 200m it originally cost them to acquire it
ALUCARD 1208
Death by Design.
#510 - 2017-06-09 15:39:39 UTC  |  Edited by: ALUCARD 1208
Jenn aSide wrote:


You are too young in the game to know this but there used to be a time when getting a pirate ship BPCs from a 10/10 or a lucky commander spawn in an anomaly was like hitting the lottery. Now (because or supers and carriers ratting and because CCP turned up escalation chances too high) getting a pirate ship BPC or some deadspace mods from a 10/10 is like finding a penny on the ground aka no big deal.



It will be ok, the 1st time one of these crying super/carrier pilots sells an escalation for 350-400 mil (like it used to be) instead of 50 to 130 mil like they are now they will forget all of this crying they did lol.


Then you dial down the escalation chance and not the ship thats running the sites to get them and what dictates the price of the escalation is that the minimum drop is 130m so buying the escalation you atleast make 30m+ a little bounty if you dont get the drop. therfore getting a little reward for shelling out isk and taking a gamble on the bookmark
El'geherg
Tacks E Vaderz
#511 - 2017-06-09 15:39:54 UTC
Jenn aSide wrote:
The amount of BS in this thread is amazing. People talking about some kind of plex conspiracy.

You all know that people rat and mine even now without Supers and Rorqs right? I use My Machariel and My Rattlesnake (and sometimes a Gila and/or Ishtar) to rat and do fine. I can fly a carrier, but i knew those were going to be nerfed so i didn't get hooked (also, Carriers can NOT use MJDs, FoF missiles or do DED 10/10s like my mach and snake can).

I'm sorry all of you fell for the FotM and didn't know better than to tie yourself down to something that a brain damaged monkey who paid attention to how CCP operates knew would eventually be nerfed. But you should not act like it's some kind of conspiracy, it's just CCP fixing their mistake over putting overpowered stuff into the game. Again.


"The amount of BS in this thread is amazing." You win the award for unintentional irony by saying this following post after post reminding anyone who cares (and nobody does) that you are a self-styled expert in ratting and near prophet when it comes to all things Eve related. There are lots of legitimate concerns being raised in these comments in addition to the threats of rage quitting so instead of congratulating yourself for how prescient you are, perhaps you can shut up and listen.
Jenn aSide
Worthless Carebears
Pandemic Horde
#512 - 2017-06-09 15:40:02 UTC
Mute Karimar wrote:
Jenn aSide wrote:

Resist making more isk from escalations and having less isk stuffed into the economy with will probably translate into lower plex prices, meaning that ratters 4-6 months form now will have to rat LESS than they do now for game time?

Yea, resist that stuff, we like being Wal-Mart level wage slaves!


You drunk? Just curious...


Nope, just a professional ratter who has been down this road with CCP a million times. If I'm not worried, you shouldn't be either.

Would you like to make an isk bet paying 4 or 5 months from now, I'm down for that.
DDosing Notme
Disorderly Vagrants
Sev3rance
#513 - 2017-06-09 15:40:13 UTC
Just unsubbed my account, have fun.
Juvenius Drakonius
#514 - 2017-06-09 15:40:35 UTC
Closing ISK faucets is not going to raise PLEX demand....new goods, content and services will.

You will only have a bladder effect where more season and ingame wealthier players will inject skills to the new NORM of maxing out ISK making. Its a cat and Mouse game that Skill Injectors have given the mouse faster legs.

GIVE PLAYERS and GROUP of players MORE CONTENT and you will have more demand for ISK. Spice up PI with rare loot with an archaeological module, Captain quarters personalizaron, Station Walking, , Corp and Alliance Halls. It sounds silly but making more things to buy and make is the way you have more demand for isk.

Rebalancing will only go so far, you want more $$ and a bigger economy? make a bigger game.





There is no shame in saying you don't know something, and there is no glory in keeping knolege to yourself.

Mad Bosnian
Brutor Tribe
Minmatar Republic
#515 - 2017-06-09 15:40:44 UTC
I don't know what to say to this.... Same **** happened on Dust514 aka "nerf everything" and buff tanks which resulted to huge playerbase loss...

Did you think about Chimera/Archon before doing this nerf? It's not like those ships had some decent dps, now it will be outdps-ed by a ******* Rattlesnake. I don't think I should continue to skill my Gallente Carrier lvl 5...
Vetus Metallicus
Blue Angels Inc.
#516 - 2017-06-09 15:41:33 UTC
SurrenderMonkey wrote:
HRRNighthawk wrote:
Instead of nerfing Carriers, which you actively have to control the fighters to make your money (and not get them killed), how about you do something about AFK VNIs?



Do you actually think this distinction matters in the context of the money supply? They know how much ISK is being generated by each ship in a given period of time.

They're not "doing something" about AFK VNIs because they're trying to address the money supply problem, not the problem of carrier pilots who are ass-sore that VNI pilots are getting much smaller ticks for much less effort.


A carrier that costs 20 times that of a VNI and actually requires paying attention should make much more per hour not to mention the content it provides other people.
Bron Ander Haltern
Special Mining Ops Inc.
#517 - 2017-06-09 15:41:35 UTC
Jenn aSide wrote:


It only looks like a conspiracy to people too shortsighted to understand that CCP is helping everyone (including the carrier ratters) with the changes they are making.



You crazy?
JC Mieyli
the united
#518 - 2017-06-09 15:41:45 UTC
Vetus Metallicus wrote:
high sec incursions that come at virtually 0 risk and provide absolutely 0 content for PvP players unless you'd like to go suicide ganking.
wait until they are near lowsec gates and wait on the other side for the dumbasses who accidentally jump through lmao
Illyria Mimikry
Literally The Worst Community
#519 - 2017-06-09 15:42:21 UTC
Another isk supply :

https://zkillboard.com/alliance/1354830081/group/513/


Because arfk mining is 100% safe in delve, because you dot do anything against that. Enjoy your gooswarm eve online them park.
Jenn aSide
Worthless Carebears
Pandemic Horde
#520 - 2017-06-09 15:45:05 UTC
El'geherg wrote:
Jenn aSide wrote:
The amount of BS in this thread is amazing. People talking about some kind of plex conspiracy.

You all know that people rat and mine even now without Supers and Rorqs right? I use My Machariel and My Rattlesnake (and sometimes a Gila and/or Ishtar) to rat and do fine. I can fly a carrier, but i knew those were going to be nerfed so i didn't get hooked (also, Carriers can NOT use MJDs, FoF missiles or do DED 10/10s like my mach and snake can).

I'm sorry all of you fell for the FotM and didn't know better than to tie yourself down to something that a brain damaged monkey who paid attention to how CCP operates knew would eventually be nerfed. But you should not act like it's some kind of conspiracy, it's just CCP fixing their mistake over putting overpowered stuff into the game. Again.


"The amount of BS in this thread is amazing." You win the award for unintentional irony by saying this following post after post reminding anyone who cares (and nobody does) that you are a self-styled expert in ratting and near prophet when it comes to all things Eve related. There are lots of legitimate concerns being raised in these comments in addition to the threats of rage quitting so instead of congratulating yourself for how prescient you are, perhaps you can shut up and listen.


There is nothing to listen to (other than the concern about PVP capability). People are being dumb about all this, mostly because they don't know enough not to.

It's going to be ok. It will take a while to deplete some stockpiles of dead space gear, blueprints and built pirate ships. it will take some time for the lessening of the isk supply to be felt. But after it does ratters will be in a better place than we are now.

All of which is moot. Almost none of you are actually going to quit, almost all of you are going to benefit from this change in short order, and CCP is not going to pull back from this change no matter how many times ISD has to clean this thread of profanity (lol).

TL;DR this is yet another 'blowing off steam' thread that CCP puts up to let you get it out of your system. Nothing you say is going to change anything.