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[June] Fighter Damage Reduction

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Faruzen en Divalone
Divalone Orbital
#341 - 2017-06-09 13:33:37 UTC  |  Edited by: Faruzen en Divalone
JC Mieyli wrote:
Faruzen en Divalone wrote:
Demand for PLEX will only go down if people stop playing. And price of stockpiles going up is bad in any way? The stockpiles will run out eventually, if its profitable for the owners to turn them into ISK. Then the ISK can go into circulation and into ISK sinks. Overall good.

yep decrease in demand means decrease in playerbase
the stockpiles wont run out because they are being hoarded
people buy them off the market and sit on them like bars of gold
they like seeing their wealth increase
people with wealth dont stockpile isk
they stockpile plex
when the demand for plex decreases then the value of plex will decrease
thats when hoarders will start to panic and start offloading their plex
until that happens they will hoard it and not sell it


Lets summarize it.

The only way to get PLEX into the game is to buy it for RL money. The rate for that is probably quite constant. Demand for PLEX is also constant at a constant playerbase. The only variable is how much ISK the PLEX costs and amount of ISK in the economy is affecting that. More ISK players hold -> they can easily buy PLEX -> PLEX price goes up until it stabilizes when people are not willing to pay that much for PLEX anymore. Less ISK -> they buy PLEX less for a while until sellers put PLEX on the market cheaper to sell it at a constant rate -> the trade stabilizes itself again.

So, removing or adding ISK faucets into the game only moves actual purchasing power of ISK up or down, supply or demand of PLEX is quite constant.

The problem here is the devaluation of ISK, when group of players generate way too much of it. Players who do not generate that much then suffer and are poor. And its getting worse, when ISK sinks do not remove the excess ISK from game. Scissors are opening wider. Its quite complicated, thats why they have economist in the team.
Anthar Thebess
#342 - 2017-06-09 13:34:00 UTC
Eye-Luv-Girls wDaddyIssues wrote:
Xuan Menzoberanza wrote:
Eye-Luv-Girls wDaddyIssues wrote:
Personally I think all the changes of late are all good. Its way too easy for people en mass to farm the game.

There shouldnt be any sources of AFK, Passive Income.

Well done ccp.



AFK ?? PASSIVE INCOME on Carrier and Super??

Are you mad or something ?


Passive = Moon Income

Mining/Rating in Carriers is AFK if you can multibox 5 rorquals/carriers

You cannot multibox carriers, don't even try with supers.

Stop discrimination, help in a fight against terrorists

Show your support to The Cause!
Scath Bererund
Sebiestor Tribe
Minmatar Republic
#343 - 2017-06-09 13:34:38 UTC
CCP Larrikin wrote:
Hi Space Friends,


You are not a friend to anyone who lives in nulsec
Jenn aSide
Soul Machines
The Initiative.
#344 - 2017-06-09 13:35:11 UTC
Radious Servasse wrote:
I think I might hate this change, but I do understand economics. The only real reason I rat these days is for plex and ships to blow up. When 90% of my time ratting is done just to get plex and 10% for ships, the game turns into a job. By reducing the amount carriers can make, there will be alot more effort required to grind a plex and such more players will leave the game. Over time, this new lack of demand will reduce plex prices to a more affordable level and those remainding will enjoy once again affordable plex prices. When the plex price finally falls, carrier ratting will once again be feasible.

Real nice plan CCP. I hope it works.

More isk means more expensive items and ships.



it doesn't work that way, and what you describe is actually the thing that bothers most people but shouldn't/

They think that their income is going down but everything else will cost the same. but it won't, the reason we got here is because soooo many people could make soooo much isk that prices went up and up. They buffed the escalation rat which made DED loot from 8/10s and 10/10s plummet in price, meaning that you had to do more escalations to make the same isk you used to and people who just sold the escalaitons made less.

Now escalations will be worth more. Deadspace loot with eventually be worth more. Pirate BS blueprints will eventually be worth more.
The loot you get from Faction spawns in havens and sanctums will eventually be worth more. The actual isk in you wallet will be worth more.

CCp screwed up with income, and it should not have had to come to this, BUT there are good things that will eventually come from this specific change and the changes coming to escalations and pirate BS build costs.

It's actually a very good time to be a null sec ratter.
Lhord GankBang
Not Great. Not terrible
#345 - 2017-06-09 13:35:39 UTC
What if I told you, you can nerf the insane ticks by simply not allowing carriers to warp to the anoms? Idea
Not making them entirely useless and just large drone boats that have slightly better DPS than an Ishtar.
Kendarr
The Congregation
RAPID HEAVY ROPERS
#346 - 2017-06-09 13:37:40 UTC
Thomasina wrote:
Kendarr wrote:
CCP Larrikin wrote:
Hi Space Friends.


Your not my friend!

MY DANK RATTING TICKS :'(



*You're


How are you going to get iskies for your toonies now?


Rob the corp wallets. Remember this was CCP's fault not mine.

Zebra-Corp
Krypleria
Republic University
Minmatar Republic
#347 - 2017-06-09 13:37:51 UTC  |  Edited by: Krypleria
Faruzen en Divalone wrote:
JC Mieyli wrote:
Faruzen en Divalone wrote:
Demand for PLEX will only go down if people stop playing. And price of stockpiles going up is bad in any way? The stockpiles will run out eventually, if its profitable for the owners to turn them into ISK. Then the ISK can go into circulation and into ISK sinks. Overall good.

yep decrease in demand means decrease in playerbase
the stockpiles wont run out because they are being hoarded
people buy them off the market and sit on them like bars of gold
they like seeing their wealth increase
people with wealth dont stockpile isk
they stockpile plex
when the demand for plex decreases then the value of plex will decrease
thats when hoarders will start to panic and start offloading their plex
until that happens they will hoard it and not sell it


Lets summarize it.

The only way to get PLEX into the game is to buy it for RL money. The rate for that is probably quite constant. Demand for PLEX is also constant at a constant playerbase. The only variable is how much ISK the PLEX costs and amount of ISK in the economy is affecting that. More ISK players hold -> they can easily buy PLEX -> PLEX price goes up until it stabilizes when people are not willing to pay that much for PLEX anymore. Less ISK -> they buy PLEX less for a while until sellers put PLEX on the market cheaper to sell it at a constant rate -> the trade stabilizes itself again.

So, removing or adding ISK faucets into the game only moves actual purchasing power of ISK up or down, supply or demand of PLEX is quite constant.

The problem here is the devaluation of ISK, when group of players generate way too much of it. Players who do not generate that much then suffer and are poor. And its getting worse, when ISK sinks do not remove the excess ISK from game. Scissors are opening wider. Its quite complicated, thats why they have economist in the team.


True... but guess what... these changes dont affect ISK sinks in any way .... so maybe they should put those economists to actually PLAY the game to understand it ?
Logan Jakal
State War Academy
Caldari State
#348 - 2017-06-09 13:37:53 UTC
Spoilers of the latest CCP meeting http://i.imgur.com/pAbUhwA.jpg
Faruzen en Divalone
Divalone Orbital
#349 - 2017-06-09 13:37:59 UTC
Lhord GankBang wrote:
What if I told you, you can nerf the insane ticks by simply not allowing carriers to warp to the anoms? Idea
Not making them entirely useless and just large drone boats that have slightly better DPS than an Ishtar.


Imagine the rage Big smile IMO it should just be less effective, but nerf should only affect fighters vs rats, not PVP aspect.
Count Basie Thellere
Brothers Of Oresome Zircon Excavations
#350 - 2017-06-09 13:38:18 UTC
Not impressed. Every time I spend ages training to get into a ship with good specs CCP nerfs them. Makes me wonder why I waste my time with this game.
Kid Herojuana
URSA PRIMUS
URSA.
#351 - 2017-06-09 13:38:23 UTC
Thank you for nerfing the active gameplay of fighters yet again. <3 I was already getting bored with actually having to look at the screen. Now AFK VNI the king of null sec ratting again!


Trainee: Guys, I have an idea. Lets make engaging content for players not to AFK orbit rocks 23/7.

CCP 1: You're fired.

CCP 2: Finally that guy is gone. You know guys, I love the VNI hull. Lets redesign it, slap on few nice skins on it and delete all that the pesky trainee added.

CCP 1: Would you like to become a partner?
JC Mieyli
Hedion University
Amarr Empire
#352 - 2017-06-09 13:38:36 UTC
Faruzen en Divalone wrote:
Less ISK -> they buy PLEX less for a while until sellers put PLEX on the market cheaper to sell it at a constant rate -> the trade stabilizes itself again.

youre forgetting one important factor
remember why we said demand decreases in the first place
in your example you assume there will be players to buy it once the price stabilises again
however we know the only reason the demand decreases is because there will be less players around to buy it
Faruzen en Divalone
Divalone Orbital
#353 - 2017-06-09 13:39:56 UTC
Krypleria wrote:
Faruzen en Divalone wrote:
JC Mieyli wrote:
Faruzen en Divalone wrote:
Demand for PLEX will only go down if people stop playing. And price of stockpiles going up is bad in any way? The stockpiles will run out eventually, if its profitable for the owners to turn them into ISK. Then the ISK can go into circulation and into ISK sinks. Overall good.

yep decrease in demand means decrease in playerbase
the stockpiles wont run out because they are being hoarded
people buy them off the market and sit on them like bars of gold
they like seeing their wealth increase
people with wealth dont stockpile isk
they stockpile plex
when the demand for plex decreases then the value of plex will decrease
thats when hoarders will start to panic and start offloading their plex
until that happens they will hoard it and not sell it


Lets summarize it.

The only way to get PLEX into the game is to buy it for RL money. The rate for that is probably quite constant. Demand for PLEX is also constant at a constant playerbase. The only variable is how much ISK the PLEX costs and amount of ISK in the economy is affecting that. More ISK players hold -> they can easily buy PLEX -> PLEX price goes up until it stabilizes when people are not willing to pay that much for PLEX anymore. Less ISK -> they buy PLEX less for a while until sellers put PLEX on the market cheaper to sell it at a constant rate -> the trade stabilizes itself again.

So, removing or adding ISK faucets into the game only moves actual purchasing power of ISK up or down, supply or demand of PLEX is quite constant.

The problem here is the devaluation of ISK, when group of players generate way too much of it. Players who do not generate that much then suffer and are poor. And its getting worse, when ISK sinks do not remove the excess ISK from game. Scissors are opening wider. Its quite complicated, thats why they have economist in the team.


True... but guess what... these changes dont affect ISK sinks in any way .... so maybe they should put those econimists to actually PLAY the game to understand it ?



'Well they decrase the ISK faucet. That is the second way to deal with the problem. While this change is strange to me and it SHOULD NOT affect PVP IMO, the ratting overall needs a nerf. Or they should just increase the transaction tax even more I guess to buff the ISK sink.
Jenn aSide
Soul Machines
The Initiative.
#354 - 2017-06-09 13:39:56 UTC
Faruzen en Divalone wrote:


The problem here is the devaluation of ISK, when group of players generate way too much of it. Players who do not generate that much then suffer and are poor. And its getting worse, when ISK sinks do not remove the excess ISK from game. Scissors are opening wider. Its quite complicated, thats why they have economist in the team.


Perfectly well said. What carriers and supers have done is devalue isk, meaning that you have to rat even longer even with a carrier or super to make enough for a plex.

In addition to that, soooo many escalations meant that the deadspace loot was near worthless.

A lot of players are too young in the game to remember when doing a DED site and getting a good drop meant you had enough isk for 2 months of game time (when plex was 500 mil and a Mach blueprint would get you 1 bil, getting that BPc was HITTING THE LOTTERY).

Now you have to do like 10 DED 10/10s to get enough loot to turn into ONE month of game time.
Hengle Teron
Red Sky Morning
The Amarr Militia.
#355 - 2017-06-09 13:41:13 UTC
So if isk faucet vs sink is too high, why not return isk sink to markets?

Adding like a 1% npc broker fee on citadels would help somewhat restore the isk sink of markets, while still keeping citadel as the more desirable option compared to stations.
iFars
Alkaid Broken Army
Pandemic Horde
#356 - 2017-06-09 13:41:16 UTC
The government is concerned that people have begun to live better? Get out of office.
Faruzen en Divalone
Divalone Orbital
#357 - 2017-06-09 13:41:40 UTC
JC Mieyli wrote:
Faruzen en Divalone wrote:
Less ISK -> they buy PLEX less for a while until sellers put PLEX on the market cheaper to sell it at a constant rate -> the trade stabilizes itself again.

youre forgetting one important factor
remember why we said demand decreases in the first place
in your example you assume there will be players to buy it once the price stabilises again
however we know the only reason the demand decreases is because there will be less players around to buy it


The demand is constant, I dont see legions of players leaving the game anytime soon.
James Kestrel
CyberShield Inc
HYDRA RELOADED
#358 - 2017-06-09 13:42:25 UTC
Do you really think this change will raise sales of Plex? This changes will not fix economy, it will only raise gap between rich and poor players, like always. Did you consider full server wipe? Maybe it will help.


You should nerf all that smartbombers and afk VNI/Ishtar ratters... they are big issue, not carriers or supers.

vid maker  **|  **swagmaster  |  "Don't be yolo and fly solo!"
Faruzen en Divalone
Divalone Orbital
#359 - 2017-06-09 13:42:47 UTC  |  Edited by: Faruzen en Divalone
iFars wrote:
The government is concerned that people have begun to live better? Get out of office.


Actually they dont live better. They live worse in fact. Having more ISK is nice, but the VALUE of ISK is going down. Your purchasing power is going down. And people not ratting in carriers or supers would gradually get poorer and poorer, because their ISK will have lesser value if everyone has a lot of it.
JC Mieyli
Hedion University
Amarr Empire
#360 - 2017-06-09 13:42:50 UTC  |  Edited by: JC Mieyli
Faruzen en Divalone wrote:
JC Mieyli wrote:
Faruzen en Divalone wrote:
Less ISK -> they buy PLEX less for a while until sellers put PLEX on the market cheaper to sell it at a constant rate -> the trade stabilizes itself again.

youre forgetting one important factor
remember why we said demand decreases in the first place
in your example you assume there will be players to buy it once the price stabilises again
however we know the only reason the demand decreases is because there will be less players around to buy it


The demand is constant, I dont see legions of players leaving the game anytime soon.

well that remains to be seen
in your example you stated people will buy less plex when prices are too high
when people are buying less plex it means people are unsubbing
you assume people will resub when prices stabilise
but if theyre unsubbed how are they gonna know the prices have stabilised
and where is there incentive to resub and find out