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[June] Fighter Damage Reduction

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JetStream Drenard
Jerkasaurus Wrecks Inc.
Sedition.
#241 - 2017-06-09 12:38:37 UTC
I don't even have the words to describe my level of incredulity about CCP's latest "deductive reasoning" skills. Why must you always treat the symptoms of problems instead of the cause??? Why must you always drive loyal players and vets away from the game? Why can't you take negative feedback with a grain of salt and just fix the ******* problems instead of making new ones all the time?

Carriers do not need a nerf, ratting does. fix the ******* problem.
WheelsUK
Federal Navy Academy
Gallente Federation
#242 - 2017-06-09 12:38:52 UTC  |  Edited by: WheelsUK
I think CCP's real problem is the only thing they can't nerf, the size of the Imperium and doing everything on a scale which has never been seen before.

'2017 CCP' we want you to play our game, but not like that, or like that, maybe like this, oh no thats too much play now!

Also CCP come up with a way to make us War each other that way we won't have time to PVE, (hint) take a wee gander at Citadels.

God damn making me post on forums, 2 in one day wtf.
Panther X
Destructive Influence
Northern Coalition.
#243 - 2017-06-09 12:39:23 UTC
Henry Plantgenet wrote:
so....4 days before next patch you're ninja-ing these changes?
Where was the CSM in all of this....


Selling their carriers and rorquals, liquidating ore stocks and ripping out SP in their worker drone alts.

My Titan smells of rich Corinthian Leather...
Faruzen en Divalone
Newbie Friendly Industries
CeskoSlovenska Aliance
#244 - 2017-06-09 12:41:07 UTC  |  Edited by: Faruzen en Divalone
Panther X wrote:
Total Newbie wrote:
Simple solutions for your simple minds CCP.

Rather than kill entire classes of ships in your effort to throw out the baby with the bath water, why don't you:

1. Have rats apply even more massive damage to fighters/bombers.

2. put a gate on anoms/sites that capital class ships can't enter

3. spend more time finding your terrible code and fixing it.


I mentioned 2 earlier and IMO it's probably the easiest and most "balanced" way to fix this "problem". If you implement #2 then #1 is moot anyway. If you want to implement #2 you will probably have to do #3 anyway, so we ALL win.

Please CCP, listen to us here. Some people CANNOT afford to play this game in a paid subscription/RL money way. If you keep removing viable options for us to play by working for it, then you are going to see a reduction in the Omega clone subscriptions. I'm not saying "I quit" but I will be looking at the number of Omega subs I have. I'm not a high volume player like some people are, and I am not the richest guy in the game, but in my tenure here, I have been able to make good business decisions, and save enough to not HAVE to pay for my subs. But I would rather save that isk for a rainy day, or invest in side projects, than blow it all on however many subs I would need.

At the end of the day (gawd I hate that line) your heavy handed band aid solutions are not garnering you any good will here. Please step back for a moment and re-evaluate your course of action here. Eve isn't here because of you, CCP. It is here because we love this game, and we love the community we have built around it (despite Gons best efforts to the contrary--JK) and it is here because we continue to open our wallets every month, 6 months, 12 months etc and continue to pay your salaries, buy new equipment and bring tourism to Iceland every year. CCP doesn't pay for Fanfest. WE DO.

CCP you would do well to remember that.


The economy here is obeying supply and demand. If you reduce the ISK generation -> less ISK on market -> less people buying PLEX -> PLEX price goes down -> people start buying PLEX again -> balance. I believe you will not end up not being able to buy PLEX. Hell you can buy PLEX after ONE evening of ratting. Even if you had to spend 2 or 3, its still f***** easy.
Jenn aSide
Soul Machines
The Initiative.
#245 - 2017-06-09 12:41:44 UTC
Sgt Ocker wrote:
Jenn aSide wrote:
"JUST BUFF NULLSEC"

The above were the words of many high sec partisan posters on these forums when, in the past, some of us pointed out that there was an imbalance caused by the combination of too much safety and way too lucrative activities in high sec like Incursions and burner mission blitzing that lets you STILL make as much is as a Super Carrier in null sec anoms.

the Guide wrote:
With the introduction of Burner missions to Lv4 mission agents it has become somewhat trivial to consistently make well in excess of 200 million isk per hour with just a little bit of training and preparation. This can be done on a single, well trained character in the relative safety of Hi-Sec, indefinitely.


The reply from the partisans was the same every time. Don't nerf my high sec activities! "JUST BUFF NULL" if you aren't making enough!

This and the Rorqual prove that you can NOT just buff other places to mask the imbalances of high sec. While this will be unpopular to say here, I'll say it anyways, I support this nerf and thing that it doesn't go far enough. CCP needs to also do something about how AFK-able null sec anoms are. You should have to be at your keyboard to make PVE isk in EVE.

And when CCP is done nerfing null sec income to something more reasonable, they HAVE to have a look at high end high sec PVE too, Incursions, burner blitzing, SOE high sec missions and the lot. Hell, it's still possible to make more blitzing lvl 3 missions in high sec than you'd get using the same ship in null. (I spent part of last week seeing if this still works btw, it does if you stick to SOE or Thukker agents).
You do realize this nerf to carriers makes AFKTars more attractive. It isn't carriers that needed nerfing, it was just the "easiest" way due to laziness at CCP and not having the know how to "balance" income.

Running highsec Incursions is a far higher income stream than a single carrier in nul - CCP won't touch those for fear of losing highsec bears.



Did you not read my posts? I highlighted the part about the issue with VNIs and have been talking about that in other posts, as well as incursions.
Eodp Ellecon
Center for Advanced Studies
Gallente Federation
#246 - 2017-06-09 12:41:45 UTC  |  Edited by: Eodp Ellecon
Since CCP is nerfing Carriers and confirming their status a merely battleships...with the reduction in usefulness to fighter - CCPlease will of course reduce building components to correlate?

I'm speaking specifically materials to fighter.
Rhetorical to ship hulls.
Tyorel Swayn
Center for Advanced Studies
Gallente Federation
#247 - 2017-06-09 12:42:20 UTC
Many people bought injectors (indirectly giving you real money, CCP) just to get in carriers and start ratting. You're just spitting them in the face with this nerf. Anyway the problem won't affect big fishes. All you are doing now is ruining the game for mediocore and new players.

Reconsider these changes!
Krypleria
Republic University
Minmatar Republic
#248 - 2017-06-09 12:42:39 UTC
Trevor2014 Gunson wrote:
CCP Larrikin wrote:
Hi Space Friends,
Coming with our release on Tuesday, we’re significantly reducing the damage output of Fighters.

Why:
We are making this change because Carriers & Supercarriers are too strong in PvE, specifically anomaly ratting in Nullsec. As you may have seen in the May Monthly Economy Report, there is a significant upward trend in the Money Supply. This is primarily due to NPC Bounties.
This trend is unsustainable. Having such a large ISK faucet is bad for the economy, and this ISK faucet is concentrated to a relatively small number of players.
We also think that Carriers and Supercarriers are a bit too effective in PvP now. This change will significantly change the PvP balance, but we’re confident that Carriers and Supercarriers will remain powerful options for PvP.

What:
  • Light Fighters (Space Superiority): No Change
  • Light Fighters (Attack): 20% reduction to Basic Attack and Heavy Rocket Salvo damage.
  • Support Fighters: No Change
  • Heavy Fighters (Heavy Attack): 10% reduction to Basic Attack and Torpedo Salvo damage.
  • Heavy Fighters (Long Range Attack): 30% reduction to Basic Attack damage.
  • Heavy Fighters (Shadow): No Change
  • NPCs are 15% more likely to shoot at fighters than they are currently.


We will continue to observe the economy after these changes and will make adjustments as necessary to keep it healthy for all our players.


Yes, cause carrier and super carrier drones are the real problem here.

Yes, cause HS Incursions aren't an isk sink whatsoever (coming from someone who ran them 8 hours a day) and Ratting in anoms for ONE MONTH because there's really no content anymore breaks the system. Big smile

Yes, cause AKFtar's are "Working as Intended". Roll

Yes, cause AFK VNI's for low-skilled afkers are a thing.

yes, cause CCP made it possible to become a super pilot in 5 minutes. Ugh

Yes, cause SOV is apparently great as you have to sit in one place for 5 minutes with your D*** out cause that's why you play a game? Evil

Yes, cause RISK Vs. REWARD isn't a thing anymore and I should fly a Hel that gets a 30M tick when i can fly a VNI or Isthar getting the same ticks and go to the store for some cookies and milk and make half the cost of my ship back on a Gamble chance no one enters my system? Shocked

Yes, cause end-game isn't broken af now due to getting nerf hammers constantly.

I think you need to re-evaluate what are "isk sinks" within the game. here's what you should fix:

Fozzie SOV was the worst idea you ever came up with, it destroyed content generated. Get rid of it or get rid of your highly prized citadels. having both at the same time is not letting anyone take SOV just for the lol's.

Small citadels get shorter rf time periods. big citadels get longer time periods. (kinda a duhh realization there) Blink

Make HS incursion rats harder to kill. (incorporate your new all-mighty NPC Player Mirror abilities or whatever you call it into HS Isk sinks, GET RID OF THE NO RISK FOR UNLIMITED REWARD BULLS*** THAT IS HS INCURSIONS).

Get rid of the Entosis BS.... wait, did I already mention that?

Lower the Bounty payouts of rats everywhere in every region (that would surely drop the Isk Sink that apparently is in NS cause we can't do anything with no major wars going on)

Make NPC rats tougher everywhere (and double their HP for HS incursions cause they are carebears and need to work for their isk just like everyone else)

one last thing before i finish my rant and 2nd forum post ever cause i don't like doing this stuff

Listen to your community and ACTUALLY read these forum posts, it's literally the same things over and over and over.... DO something about it. Isn't that why we have CSM's or whatever they are called, don't really know their names cause I hardly ever hear them doing anything for the community. Stop bringing in new items, and go back over the stuff already here and fix it, NOT NERF IT, upgrade it. delete this, delete that, then... then you can start working on new things.



CSM is a big fat joke... just look at what they say and do...
Total Newbie
State War Academy
Caldari State
#249 - 2017-06-09 12:43:00 UTC
Panther X wrote:
Total Newbie wrote:
Simple solutions for your simple minds CCP.

Rather than kill entire classes of ships in your effort to throw out the baby with the bath water, why don't you:

1. Have rats apply even more massive damage to fighters/bombers.

2. put a gate on anoms/sites that capital class ships can't enter

3. spend more time finding your terrible code and fixing it.


I mentioned 2 earlier and IMO it's probably the easiest and most "balanced" way to fix this "problem". If you implement #2 then #1 is moot anyway. If you want to implement #2 you will probably have to do #3 anyway, so we ALL win.

Please CCP, listen to us here. Some people CANNOT afford to play this game in a paid subscription/RL money way. If you keep removing viable options for us to play by working for it, then you are going to see a reduction in the Omega clone subscriptions. I'm not saying "I quit" but I will be looking at the number of Omega subs I have. I'm not a high volume player like some people are, and I am not the richest guy in the game, but in my tenure here, I have been able to make good business decisions, and save enough to not HAVE to pay for my subs. But I would rather save that isk for a rainy day, or invest in side projects, than blow it all on however many subs I would need.

At the end of the day (gawd I hate that line) your heavy handed band aid solutions are not garnering you any good will here. Please step back for a moment and re-evaluate your course of action here. Eve isn't here because of you, CCP. It is here because we love this game, and we love the community we have built around it (despite Gons best efforts to the contrary--JK) and it is here because we continue to open our wallets every month, 6 months, 12 months etc and continue to pay your salaries, buy new equipment and bring tourism to Iceland every year. CCP doesn't pay for Fanfest. WE DO.

CCP you would do well to remember that.


You know it's the end game when NC and Grrr Gons agree. WTB real, meaningful conflict in all the things.
Xuan Menzoberanza
Pandemic Horde Inc.
Pandemic Horde
#250 - 2017-06-09 12:43:09 UTC  |  Edited by: Xuan Menzoberanza
Your Nerf will work both for PVE and PVP ...

So maybe instead of making carriers bigger poo in pvp then they already are, use your own idea from other ship



The Pacifier Covert Ops Frigate

+10% Security Status gains from destruction of non-capsuleer pirates while flying this ship
Armor Repairer and Shield Booster effectiveness increased by a percentage equal to 10x pilot security status, with a floor of 0% and ceiling of 50%



Carrier - Super Could have stuff like

Pirates pose no threat to you, your Bounty payout is reduced by 5%/10%/20%/30% ???!@?@?@?


Atleast until we or you find better solution ...
Kalioria
Spartan Vanguard
#251 - 2017-06-09 12:43:21 UTC
I was farming anomalies with 2 BS that made 40 mil\tick. Not afk, constant switching between windows to assign correct targets, watching for neutrals in system, etc. That is not much fun. I was thinking about carrier, even after previous nerf it seemed like a good way to stick to one account farming.
Carrier without much skills have ~3.2k dps (common attack + rockets).
2 BS with my skills have 2.2k dps, each is 5 times cheaper than carrier.
After simple math, 3.2k -30% = 2.1k dps on easy target with agility of a mountain.
On the other hand I can have 4 gilas on each of my account and just stay afk just watching local for neutrals.

So what's the point of having carrier now? PVP? It's not so useful unless you want to spend few days jumping to your enemy to get over-blobbed by bunch of supers, that used to be ratting cans.

From my point of view economics is killed by skill injectors. So isks are made out of nowhere.
The second point that kills eve is that CCP increases gap between rick people and all other. As those who play less, they set long term goals - for example learn and buy carrier to become a bit more effective in farming. But when this goal is achieved - it start to smell like a dead dog, because of new nerf. At the same time people who had a lot of money before, can buy injectors and switch to new more profitable way of farming much faster.

One more funny thing, just imagine how farming will look like in 1-2 years when new Blood Rider AI is introduced to other PVE areas. Probably we would need to form fleets to complete a Horde or Heaven, spending 30 minutes to share 30mil, just because spending more time with less income is so much fun.

Anyway no-one from dev side reads and cares about community comments.

Accepting isk donations for ammo.
Eye-Luv-Girls wDaddyIssues
Hookers N' Blow
#252 - 2017-06-09 12:44:03 UTC
Personally I think all the changes of late are all good. Its way too easy for people en mass to farm the game.

There shouldnt be any sources of AFK, Passive Income.

Well done ccp.
Erie TehGM
CapF best F
#253 - 2017-06-09 12:44:13 UTC
Tyorel Swayn wrote:
Many people bought injectors (indirectly giving you real money, CCP) just to get in carriers and start ratting. You're just spitting them in the face with this nerf. Anyway the problem won't affect big fishes. All you are doing now is ruining the game for mediocore and new players.

Reconsider these changes!



All their "balance" patches are like that. Big fishes are never trully affected, line members get screwed over.
elise densi
Imperial Academy
Amarr Empire
#254 - 2017-06-09 12:44:26 UTC
skill extractor sale when ?
Jenn aSide
Soul Machines
The Initiative.
#255 - 2017-06-09 12:44:38 UTC
Faruzen en Divalone wrote:


The economy here is obeying supply and demand. If you reduce the ISK generation -> less ISK on market -> less people buying PLEX -> PLEX price goes down -> people start buying PLEX again -> balance.


+1

This is the thing that people miss. Just like how nerfing rorqs makes the price rebound which means that while you are making less isk, the isk you make is worth more.

These nerfs actually mean better income for ratters. The escalation nerf means deadspace loot will be worth more, and this carrier nerf means even less escalations and less isk stuff into the economy which eventually might mean lower plex prices = easier to plex with less time ratting.

People can be so self centered they don't know when they are being helped.
August - Breeze
KarmaFleet
Goonswarm Federation
#256 - 2017-06-09 12:45:46 UTC  |  Edited by: August - Breeze
I put my money where my mouth is and I just CANCELED my second account that I had for my carrier pilot. I will transfer my capital pilot over to my main account. (note: I have never PVE'ed in my carrier)

I encourage everyone to do the same thing!

CCP sticks it to us, we need to stick them right back by decreasing THEIR income!
Xuan Menzoberanza
Pandemic Horde Inc.
Pandemic Horde
#257 - 2017-06-09 12:46:55 UTC
Eye-Luv-Girls wDaddyIssues wrote:
Personally I think all the changes of late are all good. Its way too easy for people en mass to farm the game.

There shouldnt be any sources of AFK, Passive Income.

Well done ccp.



AFK ?? PASSIVE INCOME on Carrier and Super??

Are you mad or something ?
Faruzen en Divalone
Newbie Friendly Industries
CeskoSlovenska Aliance
#258 - 2017-06-09 12:48:00 UTC  |  Edited by: Faruzen en Divalone
August - Breeze wrote:
I put my money where my mouth is and I just CANCELED my second account that I had for my carrier pilot. I will transfer my capital pilot over to my main account. (note: I have never PVE'ed in my carrier)

I encourage everyone to do the same thing!

CCP sticks it to us, we need to stick them right back by decreasing THEIR income!


So now, you can only make like 150 mil per hour instead of 200? Worth to cancel account yea. 1 hour longer time to make PLEX ... which will be cheaper if there is less ISK made by ratting overall.
Erie TehGM
CapF best F
#259 - 2017-06-09 12:49:46 UTC
Faruzen en Divalone wrote:
August - Breeze wrote:
I put my money where my mouth is and I just CANCELED my second account that I had for my carrier pilot. I will transfer my capital pilot over to my main account. (note: I have never PVE'ed in my carrier)

I encourage everyone to do the same thing!

CCP sticks it to us, we need to stick them right back by decreasing THEIR income!


So now, you can only make like 150 mil per hour instead of 200? Worth to cancel account yea. 1 hour longer time to make PLEX ...



But only one account to keep subbed.
Lunarstorm95
Godless Horizon.
OnlyFleets.
#260 - 2017-06-09 12:51:25 UTC  |  Edited by: Lunarstorm95
Can you guys just come out and say ur goal is force old players to start having to buy plexs? Those dam experienced players and there self sustaining incomes not buying our plex.

Grr vets

Give us content to spend isk on and the game will stop krabbing.

“You can have peace. Or you can have freedom. Don't ever count on having both at once.” ― Robert A. Heinlein "Real knowledge is to know the extent of one's ignorance." ― Confucius