Player Features and Ideas Discussion

Ruby has difficulty reading and likes to just make up what he thinks people wrote.

Zim really loves this idea so much he continues to post to give it more attention and secretly wants it passed.

Homeworld rocks. The ship type you mentioned would be somewhat along the lines of what we could use.

Some kind of capital that bashes subcaps that isnt a carrier/mothership would be cool. Make it so it cant beat dreads in equal numbers and then all of a sudden dreads have something to kill again, yay.

Well there ya go, need moar subcap bashing. I always imagined caps to be like big baddies that'd show up a handful of battleships. Not some exclusive club of oversized, slow ass ships made only for sieging and fighting eachother.

Starting to think that just one ship introduction at a time is kinda useless. Seems like there's very little room for anything new or different and that any individual ships added are going to be curbed so hard they might as well not have been added. The whole game is a big precarious house of cards right now, ships with roles and countering ships and all balanced to the serenading chorus of everyones complaints about things being OP or rendering other things obsolete. Adding just one card is going to topple it. A whole new section needs to be introduced with things that would throw the game into havoc in their own but are a new part of the game with its own opposites to bring it back into balance.

Then again, there are still pretty clear trends of preferred ships. Maybe they just need to keep switching it up and make it interesting by doing it with new ships not just tweaks on old ones.

Fair, you didn't mention a CovOps cloak, but as Bombers are the only ranged damage AOE ship in the game... Titan SB seems to fit.

As for other ideas than Damage, what is there? Supers have the Remote ECM burst. So titans can get what? Neuting would make them once again able to get rid of HICs (unless they were stuck after use, in which case ). The other EWARs are pretty LOLtastic as an AOE weapon system.

List of EWAR
ECM --- See Supers, Lockbreaker Bombs
Sensor Damps ---- How would this, I don't even, let alone be useful.
Stasis Web ---- Not really a Titan thing, and Tracking Titans don't need a buff.
TP ----- not worthwhile as an AOE
Tracking Disruptors ------ How hard is it to track a Titan?
Warp Jamming ------ See HIC, DIC
RSEBO ---- I'm reaching now
Neuts ---- Void Bombs, also would be bad considering CCP just made them once again properly vulnerable to HICs.

So, damage would be the only Remote AOE that would make sense for a Titan. And would be a terrible idea.

This. Truly.

I was thinking about a blown up version of the flak frigate. An actual ranged shell that explodes with a AoE of about 2km - 5km (this is open for debate), that has a falloff -> optimal range of say 20km - 80km. The damage modifier varies based on ship size, with smaller ships receiving more damage than bigger ones.

Once the ship size reaches say, a bc or a BS (also up for debate, since I think a flak gun should be useless against BS and capitals only), then the flak gun becomes useless and bounces off the sub cap hulls. This will level the playing field, allowing big ships to own ships on both ends of the spectrum (with flak guns for small ships, and conventional cap guns for bigger ships), while allowing mid sized sub caps to wade through unscathed.

The same way frigates can own each other, and keep big ships in check by not being hittable by those big guns.



See above. I didn't have anything like E-war, bursts or smartbombs in mind.

Introduce a new capital turret/missile, with xl ammo that has a minimum and optimal range. Add a AoE small enough to not cause tears of rage, but not big enough to cause rage quits either. Adapt the damage modifier based on the ship size (or rather, the lack there of) so that these guns can and will only effect blobs of smaller ships, even if you blob 30 dreads with flak fits, these guns should have no effect on ships like a battleship or a bc even. Sure, you'll get slight shield damage, but it would be like tanking hisec rats while mining in hulks. It should literally be an annoyance and not a life threatening issue for something like a bc or up.

And this is exactly where I say new capital hulls can come in. Give us a new Dread hull designed specifically for sub cap aggression. The existing dreads can still fit the new turrets/launchers, but won't pack the punch. This expands not only the amount of hulls available for pew pew, but will also encourage the use of caps in smaller engagements.

Cheapening this whole possibility by giving sub capital ships bigger guns is just another step towards sub-caps online.

In the words of our Illustrious OP:

Tres Sigh.


At Asuka:

Do you Hate the server? Optimal+Falloff calculations to EVERY ship in a large range? Also, that's Exactly like a Smartbomb or Bomb. Except in clusters, Bombs only kill really small stuff. Same with Smarties. Just because you call it Flak (Airbursting Projectiles that Explode some distance from the launcher) and I call it a Bomb (Airbursting Projectiles that Explode some distance from the launcher) doesn't make them different.

As for something capital sized that shoots subcaps. Meet Avy, your friendly Neighborhood Tracking Avatar. Putting out some 11k DPS at an Optimal of 38km, they have enough tracking to kill most Stuffs that can bother it (even without even a DCII, they have 3.6m EHP). [Tracking Rags and Erebuses also do similar numbers]

1) No. I just expect more from the server. It's already happening with the existing pew pew mechanics in place because last time I checked, all our current turrets and missiles have falloff and optimum damages that gets calculated for every ship in the weapons range as this ships range varies in real time....

2) The difference between what your holding onto and what Im on about is pure speed. That bomb won't be moving very fast will it? And I'd like to see you mwding with your dread to within 5km (under cloak no less) to drop something on a frigate gang. And the smartbomb is such a poor example, due to its severe lack of meaningful range. 5-7km (if that), isn't going to do much to a frigate pointing you at 20 km, or recons pointing you even further away.

Nah, a dread should at the very least be capable of dealing mass amounts of damage to ships, regardless of their size, provided they are fitted with the right weapons. And right now, that is severely lacking in Eve because we have this sub caps > caps mentality.

We don't want moar e-war for caps. We want the means to engage and kill these small flies (now that we've lost all our drones) that should know better than to engage something 100 times it's size and cost. And this is by no means the I-win button, its the I-fair button. Since as of this post, taking 1 cap against even a handful of smaller ships is a suicide wish. That cap should stand a chance (without costing 50 + billion isk) to take at least 50% or more of that handful of ships down with it.

3) 50 bil for a hull, without fittings, just to engage 100 mil odd in ships from a single gang (assuming their all canes or drakes)?

Yea... that makes sense.

Tres Sigh summore

The server checks once for each pair that's got a gun going between it. The server's also at a point where the easy optimization is done, and throwing money won't help much, because we're packing the same number of people as are online on a typical WOW Server onto one battlefield all at once, shooting at each other. (AOW Damage makes the server cry even when it's just Bombers doing it, and Bombers don't do too well in super high lag.)



I'm not suggesting that a dread be cloaked. I'm saying that AOE damage dealt from range is not a good game mechanic for something like Dread. It's a terrible one. I'm not saying you're suggesting it drop out the nose like a bomb. I'm saying that the Bomb is the closest relative (and a very close relative at that) to what you're suggesting, a turret that shoots Bombs.

The other problem is that no other thing in the game works like how you describe. Small stuff is hard to hit with big guns. That's pretty much the number one rule of Eve weaponry. And it's a good one because it encourages mixed size fleets.



Guess what. Caps have something to swat the flies. It's called your Subcap Support fleet.

We JUST got away from a situation where Naked Cap/Super fleets were being used regularly and (hopefully) back to requiring a mixed Cap/Subcap composition. Naked Caps vs a gang of Subcaps are supposed to die horribly. If they didn't, there'd be no reason to fly anything else. That's why Rock, Paper, Shotgun is a boring game.

Also, this is Eve. Playing the Fair Card is a poor plan.


Yep. Tracking Titans are funny like that. And yet, they get used to BLAP things. Because they Can. (Also usually because they're Bait)

Can't beat Dreads in equal numbers. Bashes Subcaps. Ok, that would be low DPS, High Tracking. Sounds a lot like an 8 Gun Battleship.

If it were a Cap, you really think someone would Siege a dread on it? No, you call in your Supers.

SuperCapitals Bash Supers and Caps. (With the Help of Subcap Support. Gotta Bubble)

Capitals are niche ships. Dreads Bash Structures. Carriers are big, Tanky Logi with some drone DPS.

Battlships (With Support) are the Gerber Tool of feet combat. Get enough and fly em right (including picking the right doctrine) and you can do anything.

BCs are the Swiss Army knife. They can do most of the stuff BSes can, but not as well, and they're missing some stuff. (Armor HACs also kind of fit here)

Cruisers are the pocket knife. Back to specialization. Primarily support.

Frigates are Support. And very important in their role as such.


There in the middle, you have a bunch of relatively accessible ships forming the backbone of your fleets. This is a good thing for the game.

and a good bribe it was. let's just hope they stick to doing it right.

An 8-gun battleship with a massive tank/buffer and higher dps more like.

We dont all live in 0.0, supercaps arent very common in the small cap-gang engagements that are everywhere in lowsec. Dreads fight other caps there. Only the minority are rollin with titan/mom support.

Im sure that even in 0.0 with the smaller alliances who contend with eachother, you'll see dread vs cap action quite commonly as well.

In wormholes, its absolute. There are no super caps. Dreads are your main anti-cap. With sub-cap support ofcourse.