Player Features and Ideas Discussion

I'll put it in point form so its easier for you:


-dreads dont go into highsec, in case you havent noticed
- I said small-scale (in other words, we dont all have 100+ stealth bombers available)
-Not everyone is smart enough to use DecShield as Im seeing right now in my present war dec, so it has a use

So I see you're still missing the bulk of this conversation and making broad assumptions.

You seem to be "laboring under the delusion" that Im the only person who can see merit in this idea and that its solely for my gain in one specific situation, just as other people who also have no better arguement than to try and demean this idea by insinuating that Im being cheap. The war dec and pos I mentioned are new, I began this post before any of that. Its a suggestion to implement something that alot more people than just me can see a place in the game for. So guess again if you think for a second your situational belittling means anything.

If I wanted to, I could make a fleet issue phoon or other ships that would do the low end of the kinds of dps Im talking about here (1800dps), without triage or being all that vulnerable. Highsec isnt protected against isk, no matter what kind of silly circle jerk theories you think the game revolves around. Whether someone wants to organise a 100-man highsec fleet of t1 BS or 20 people want to buy more practical "mini-dreads", there isnt a difference, it's already doable with faction stuff and this is just a different way about it that more people can get into and that is planned with balance in mind. If you bothered to read, you might have figured that out by now.
The only thing this changes in what people have the ability to do with their isk/time/numbers is allowing them a higher dps threshold for their class of ship at a properly balanced increase in vulnerability, similar to SB's and just like tier 3 BC's. It adds more dynamic pvp by enabling people that are otherwise able, but uninclined, to do the things they would use this ship for. Sure, I'd like it to be more around 2000-2500 dps rather than 1800 like the fleet phoon I can make for less than 400m, but it'd have it would have appropriate draw backs. I can hit other bs with the phoon, this thing wouldnt when it could do the dps Im talking about, the phoon can run away, this thing can't, the phoon can be remote repped, this thing cant. Its a trade off and a realisable one from what Im gathering.

Whats wrong with something with that? It'd come out to about the same isk as a gank faction bs with the prices people are mentioning in this post and Im sure CCP is competent enough to price it right if we are wrong in our evaluating.

It's always the 0.0 ******* that want to ***** about and attempt to shoot down any possible changes that could threaten their current domination over null or make them have to share more of it. This would also make wormholes all kinds of interesting and decrease the huge power of the people who built a ton of caps in a c4 or lower.

Like I wrote: more practical. Reading... again Ruby... come on.
Its possible with select ships, why not make it possible with more universal ships? why not push the threshold by a few hundred dps at the expense of survivability to make it into a ship to fill a role people want and not just a t2 varient of the fleet issue phoon?

20 is less than 100 by a factor of 5. Rate the cost of this ship as such if you will. 100m for a bs, 500m for a sieging-oriented bs. Although, Im thinking, typically you only need about 50 people to do a large pos thats well defended, if you arent being heavily attacked in return, so more like 10 people with these 2k to 2.5k dps boats doing 20,000-25,000dps in comparison to the 50 doing like 500 on avg we'll say, pushing out 25,000 dps up to 40,000 if they're averaging 800 dps. So, even at a factor of direct proportion, you'd still be reaching less dps. It'd only be a partial isk trade off for smaller fleets.

True, fitted bs is more like 150-250m.

Lets say your 250m bs is cranking out 800dps on avg in a fleet. Your dread only costs 1.2bil usually and can do an easy 6,000dps and up. That isnt really much of a huge hike in price. 6,000 divided by 800 is 7.5. So 7.5 battleships worth of dps at the low end of dread dps and that is already over 1.4bil which is more than the cost of a dread. Its actually
1.87 bil. So the relevant dps to isk is lower in this case. Given that the dreads cant go to highsec and this thing would, I'd give it a higher ratio of dps to isk, but putting it at 5x the cost of a regular bs for out dps'ing a faction bs by a few hundred dps would be a reasonable compensations, no?

I prefer the little people big isk solution. Its how I like to play. Not as a part of a large-scale operation like a thousand man alliance running dirt cheap fittings, but as veteran player that can make alot of money without alot of people and hold some power. As are the people I play with. Money is power, wIthin reason ofcourse, which I feel this plays into, as shown in calculations below.
Not like this is anything new... you can pimp the hell out of your t3 with all kinds of money and make it the equivalent of many t2 cruisers. Shouldnt be that big of a leap to take pumping isk into your ship for prominence in fleet engagements to doing the same for pos engagements.

If you can get 10,000dps out of 600m and 20 people. 2,000-2,500dps isnt that unreasonable for ~500m and 1 person. Seeing that its only one person, that would make sense that you get less for more as you're reducing the number of people. I dont know if the ratio is right but it seems like its in the right ballpark.


1person:20m:500dps (SB)
1person:500m:2,000dps (mini-dread)
1person:~1bil:6,000dps (dread)

Mini-dread: 4x the dps, 25x the price.
Dread: 12x the dps, 50x the price.

Getting three times more dps in the dread for only twice as much. Thats at 6,000 dps... errbody knows dreads can do more than that..

Are you really saying that I'm sceptical of the idea simply because I'm in nullsec?

Except that the doubling you need to go from is the most comparable ship. The BS. 1000 DPS doubled becomes your 2, and the 250m cost becomes 1B. Which is Dreadland.

There is supposed to be a big gulf between Subcaps and Caps. Caps come with HUGE disadvantages (Jump Drive), and in exchange have a nice buffer from subcaps encroaching on their roles.

The problem with doing stuff at the BS size is that there's not much ground left to cover as far as *different* there's bigger, faster, tankier, but that's not that interesting, and is really hard to balance. A decent place for T3 (or other new ships/items) might be modules or frigates, but probably nothing BS sized.

Generalizing to add weight often ends in Ad Hominem or Strawman arguments. And thus detracts.

Here's the thing. From my perspective, you have a large hill to climb before getting a change like this into the game, given CCP's historical reluctance to give straight up damage bonuses. So I don't need strong arguments, I get to have fun.

And Structure shooting needs to be fixed on the structure end of things, not with bigger dpsboats. Structure bashes have one criteria that matters, so it's like suggestions to boost Hulk yield at the expense of *whatever*.


Had you talked about this in terms of a practical SuperCap counter, you might have gained a bit more traction, However, you'd be at a point where you're rehashing what was the hot topic of the past few years.