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CCP Not Even Pretending.
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Teckos Pech
Hogyoku
Goonswarm Federation
#81 - 2017-06-08 17:44:29 UTC
Jenn aSide wrote:
April rabbit wrote:


ISK is not straight 'Pay to win" but having more of it gives pretty nice advantage.


And without plex, the only people who would have that advantage would be those who played longer. Plex helps level the playing field, and while this isn't all that important to me, it is important to many players 'obsessed' with being able to 'catch up' in an MMO.

Which is why plex is a necessary evil in so many ways, The people who complain about plex and pay to win do so from the comfort of a virtual game world that might not exist were it not for plex, or would exist but be WAY crappier with an economy skewed and screwed by isk sellers too numerous for even CCP to deal with.


Exactly, this allows for redistribution form those players with lots of ISK/SP to those without....and it is done in a voluntary manner.

As for PCU....the issue with this measure and all arguments surrounding it is, we don't have the counter factual time series. That is we don't know what PCU would look like without skill injectors. Or without various changes to in game mechanics. These kinds of arguments are very hard to settle which is why so many arguments revolving around time series data simply go on and on and on. Both in game and IRL. Hell, even things like panel data does not seem to help. The notion of "we just need more data" may very well not be true for some issues/topics.

"The curious task of economics is to demonstrate to men how little they really know about what they imagine they can design."--Friedrich August von Hayek

8 Golden Rules for EVE Online
Ima Wreckyou
The Conference Elite
Safety.
#82 - 2017-06-08 19:13:12 UTC
So I'm probably not going to bring my point across here, but at least I tried.

So I went back to contemplate some more about the problem and looked one more time at the space gold (nuPLEX) ads when it hit me:

https://secure.eveonline.com/PLEX/

What do those bars look like? They look like a stack of gold-pressed Latinum. Seriously. It's true.

gold-pressed Latinum

qed.

Evil RatKid
Mr Epeen
It's All About Me
#83 - 2017-06-08 22:23:58 UTC
Teckos Pech wrote:
April rabbit wrote:
TigerXtrm wrote:
Ima Wreckyou wrote:
Inb4 some serious spin-doctoring about why this is not a blantant pay2win ad and absolutely no problem.


This isn't pay to win.

You have to win with what you buy to make it pay to win. 99% of the people buying PLEX for ships lose them almost instantly.

Isn't it any different in any other game? Is it really possible somewhere to simply pay and get others killed without using your stuff? Shocked


In other games you pay and get items that give you an advantage. I suppose having ISK does convey some advantage, but not in terms of items--i.e. you are not using an item I cannot have except by opening my RL wallet.
Some advantage? No...total advantage.

The corp that spent a year mining ore and building a fleet goes up against a corp that crowd funded their members for PLEX enough to easily outgun and unendingly replace ships as they're lost. Alliance wars are a numbers game needing only one or two skilled players per fleet. The guys with the money have the numbers, so they win.

Not pay to win in the traditional MMO meaning. But pay to win, nonetheless.

Mr Epeen Cool
Teckos Pech
Hogyoku
Goonswarm Federation
#84 - 2017-06-08 22:56:03 UTC
Mr Epeen wrote:
Teckos Pech wrote:
April rabbit wrote:
TigerXtrm wrote:
Ima Wreckyou wrote:
Inb4 some serious spin-doctoring about why this is not a blantant pay2win ad and absolutely no problem.


This isn't pay to win.

You have to win with what you buy to make it pay to win. 99% of the people buying PLEX for ships lose them almost instantly.

Isn't it any different in any other game? Is it really possible somewhere to simply pay and get others killed without using your stuff? Shocked


In other games you pay and get items that give you an advantage. I suppose having ISK does convey some advantage, but not in terms of items--i.e. you are not using an item I cannot have except by opening my RL wallet.
Some advantage? No...total advantage.

The corp that spent a year mining ore and building a fleet goes up against a corp that crowd funded their members for PLEX enough to easily outgun and unendingly replace ships as they're lost. Alliance wars are a numbers game needing only one or two skilled players per fleet. The guys with the money have the numbers, so they win.

Not pay to win in the traditional MMO meaning. But pay to win, nonetheless.

Mr Epeen Cool


Says the RMTer. Roll

You really shot your credibility in the head when you announced you were a character trader which is you converting your RL money into ISK. Tell me...how many of those crowd funding guys did you supply characters too? P

"The curious task of economics is to demonstrate to men how little they really know about what they imagine they can design."--Friedrich August von Hayek

8 Golden Rules for EVE Online
Mr Epeen
It's All About Me
#85 - 2017-06-08 23:03:40 UTC
Teckos, you must have been Prom king. Because you can dance like a mother*******.

Mr Epeen Cool
Teckos Pech
Hogyoku
Goonswarm Federation
#86 - 2017-06-08 23:33:15 UTC
Mr Epeen wrote:
Teckos, you must have been Prom king. Because you can dance like a mother*******.

Mr Epeen Cool


And it's too bad you turned out to be such a hypocrite.

"The curious task of economics is to demonstrate to men how little they really know about what they imagine they can design."--Friedrich August von Hayek

8 Golden Rules for EVE Online