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Please Advise: Bowhead high-sec ganks

Author
Ima Wreckyou
The Conference Elite
Safety.
#21 - 2017-06-06 20:29:33 UTC  |  Edited by: Ima Wreckyou
Flharfh Lhar wrote:
Don't fly it during a wardec.

Most of the ones that get suicide ganked are speed / agility fit.


[Bowhead, Bowhead fit]

Damage Control II
Reinforced Bulkheads II
Reinforced Bulkheads II

Adaptive Invulnerability Field II
Adaptive Invulnerability Field II
500MN Microwarpdrive II

Capital Transverse Bulkhead II
Capital Transverse Bulkhead II
Capital Transverse Bulkhead II


Gets over 600k EHP with the invulns overheated.

This basically. The trick is to disable MWD auto-repeate. If you load system activate warp to the next gate and simply press the MWD button. When it finishes cycle you will immediately enter warp. It's also extremely fast to transport stuff that way and you need no webber. Works for Orca as well.

Also, a mining permit never hurts Big smile
Blade Darth
Room for Improvement
Good Sax
#22 - 2017-06-06 20:42:34 UTC
https://zkillboard.com/kill/62096814/
cargo extender tank

https://zkillboard.com/kill/62609958/
war dec

https://zkillboard.com/kill/62180945/
fitted for travel speed
possible the pilot was on autopilot, with offline hardeners



There is no such thing as 100% safe, but its possible to get 99.9%
- max tank / max agility
- scout
- web alt
- extra caution when entering dangerous areas. check KB, hours of activity, number of pilots in space
- tank to cargo value ratio
- jump in after a random "sacrificial lamb". Hostiles might not even notice you.
- toon in a ganking corp. You will have their gank schedule and probably set your hauler to blue anyway.

And many more. Use your brain.
Cypherous
Liberty Rogues
Aprilon Dynasty
#23 - 2017-06-06 21:39:01 UTC
Renee Frost wrote:
Yeah, this one has the correct tanking fit: https://zkillboard.com/kill/62609958/

And still got ganked on the way to the next incursion focus.

Well, technically there is no way to be 100% safe since they can keep bumping you with a velator for 3 minutes while throwing tornadoes and catalysts at you.


That one shows as a valid war kill, they don't need to "gank" it they have all the time in the world without any concord response
Desmios Sanguis
10th Crusade
#24 - 2017-06-07 01:01:51 UTC
Thank you all for your help.

One thing Im noticing is that all the extra time / effort it seems that needs to be done to make a bowhead safe, defeats the purpose in the first place.

The purpose of me flyng a bowhead is to cut down the time it takes to move ships from incursion to incursion.

If I have to have a separate account webbing, constantly checking map for 24hr gank, etc. etc. -- what is the point in the first place? It is not saving me any time.

Am I missing something?
Herzog Wolfhammer
Sigma Special Tactics Group
#25 - 2017-06-07 01:05:07 UTC
Thanks for the bowhead tank info guys. I am now educated. Idea

(note: good God all that tank and they can still get ganked)

Bring back DEEEEP Space!

Avaelica Kuershin
Paper Cats
#26 - 2017-06-07 02:34:07 UTC
Desmios Sanguis wrote:
Thank you all for your help.

One thing Im noticing is that all the extra time / effort it seems that needs to be done to make a bowhead safe, defeats the purpose in the first place.

The purpose of me flyng a bowhead is to cut down the time it takes to move ships from incursion to incursion.

If I have to have a separate account webbing, constantly checking map for 24hr gank, etc. etc. -- what is the point in the first place? It is not saving me any time.

Am I missing something?


If you can run two clients and have two omega accounts, then having a scout/webber on one and the freighter on the other makes sense. For one thing, the webber gets the freighter into warp even quicker than the mwd cycle.
Another alt on one account can handle the blockade runner if desired.

Sisi is a good place for practicing.
Freighter sideways warp... wheee!
ShahFluffers
Ice Fire Warriors
Infinite Pew
#27 - 2017-06-07 02:46:59 UTC
Desmios Sanguis wrote:
Thank you all for your help.

One thing Im noticing is that all the extra time / effort it seems that needs to be done to make a bowhead safe, defeats the purpose in the first place.

The purpose of me flyng a bowhead is to cut down the time it takes to move ships from incursion to incursion.

If I have to have a separate account webbing, constantly checking map for 24hr gank, etc. etc. -- what is the point in the first place? It is not saving me any time.

Am I missing something?

Indeed you are.

With all the things said in this thread, at the end of the day it comes down to two things:

- how much risk are you willing to accept for convenience and vice versa

- use your best judgement


There are times where you will be totally fine in a Bowhead/Freighter as long as you completely tank it and nothing more.

There are other times where you can "max cargo" fit your Bowhead/Freighter... and all you need to be "safe" is get a friend to web you into warp at each gate.

And there are other times where you can do everything right, follow all of the advice mentioned in this thread to the letter... and you will still get ganked.


It is all about probabilities and guesstimations.
The trick is knowing how to stack the odds in your favor, how much you can get away with, and being less desireable a target compared to the guy next to you.
Blade Darth
Room for Improvement
Good Sax
#28 - 2017-06-07 03:30:08 UTC
Desmios Sanguis wrote:
Thank you all for your help.

One thing Im noticing is that all the extra time / effort it seems that needs to be done to make a bowhead safe, defeats the purpose in the first place.

The purpose of me flyng a bowhead is to cut down the time it takes to move ships from incursion to incursion.

If I have to have a separate account webbing, constantly checking map for 24hr gank, etc. etc. -- what is the point in the first place? It is not saving me any time.

Am I missing something?

Weird for an indy pilot to ask that. The "purpose" is to move ships with expensive rigs for pilots that are too lazy to move them themselves. And for pilots that just can't be bothered with fitting ships and doing move ops. Those pilots will pay for the convenience you provide. Takes more time and effort? Too dangerous? Raise price.
Burgein
Darwins disciples
#29 - 2017-06-07 03:42:59 UTC
I really can't believe that using free throwaway alt accounts for suicide ganks has been allowed for this long. It's such an obvious way to bypass game mechanics like security status loss and kill rights.

I would be fine with suicide ganks if people had the balls to do it with their main character.
Blade Darth
Room for Improvement
Good Sax
#30 - 2017-06-07 04:02:30 UTC
Says the person posting with an alt.

Lol

"throwaway alt accounts" aka. recycling alts is against the eula and people's mains, gametime and wallet is getting pwnd by CCP if they spot this. Doesn't matter thou, with proper logistics (bowhead, ha ha) group of -10 players can continue to operate in system. Or at least I think it can, didn't do anything in the tutorial zone for years so I'm a bit out of date with current hs shenanigans.
Mara Pahrdi
The Order of Anoyia
#31 - 2017-06-07 05:25:13 UTC
Burgein wrote:
I really can't believe that using free throwaway alt accounts for suicide ganks has been allowed for this long. It's such an obvious way to bypass game mechanics like security status loss and kill rights.

I would be fine with suicide ganks if people had the balls to do it with their main character.

Roll

Get informed.

Remove standings and insurance.

Bjorn Tyrson
Brutor Tribe
Minmatar Republic
#32 - 2017-06-07 05:40:45 UTC
Desmios Sanguis wrote:
Thank you all for your help.

One thing Im noticing is that all the extra time / effort it seems that needs to be done to make a bowhead safe, defeats the purpose in the first place.

The purpose of me flyng a bowhead is to cut down the time it takes to move ships from incursion to incursion.

If I have to have a separate account webbing, constantly checking map for 24hr gank, etc. etc. -- what is the point in the first place? It is not saving me any time.

Am I missing something?


Checking the map is something you should be doing no matter what. It takes less than a minute. So no time added there.
A scout/Web alt isn't strictly necessary but it makes things safer (and faster since you get into warp sooner)
If your only moving one or two ships. Yeah you likely won't save much time. But if you are bringing a small armada with you (I like options) it's a massive time saver.

The safety procedures might take a little more time and effort than not using them. But it's gonna be far less effort than replacing a ship.
Dracvlad
Taishi Combine
Astral Alliance
#33 - 2017-06-07 06:27:30 UTC  |  Edited by: Dracvlad
Jenn gave some good information on how to avoid being ganked, however I would advise using a Covert T3C instead of a transport ship as a better approach for the expensive modules.

Just to be clear a webber is not going to help you if the gankers suicide a point onto your bowhead so as to get a bumper onto it, this is something that the gankers will do, so bear that in mind.

When the going gets tough the Gankers get their CSM rep to change mechanics in their favour.

Blocked: Teckos Pech, Sonya Corvinus, baltec1, Shae Tadaruwa, Wander Prian, Daichi Yamato, Jonah Gravenstein, Merin Ryskin, Linus Gorp

Avaelica Kuershin
Paper Cats
#34 - 2017-06-07 08:47:16 UTC
Burgein wrote:
I really can't believe that using free throwaway alt accounts for suicide ganks has been allowed for this long. It's such an obvious way to bypass game mechanics like security status loss and kill rights.

I would be fine with suicide ganks if people had the balls to do it with their main character.


Hmm.... Pirate

An Alpha can gank, but I still prefer to train an Omega (looks like training for Purifier could be useful)
Samwise Everquest
Plus 10 NV
#35 - 2017-06-07 09:13:47 UTC
Jenn aSide wrote:
I used a bowhead to move my stuff when I did incursions and never got screwed with.

1st thing you notice about the ones that got ganked is that that are fit for speed not tank. This is a mistake, tank the Bowhead. another problem is they just chucked their fitted ships in them and went. So no tank plus billions of potential loot = gank target. also, if you have an alt, trained it to use a webbing ship.

And don't be afraid to spent time. I moved my ships like this:

Strip fittings, put ships in bowhead, give fittings to alt in proator (transport ship, can't be scanned.), fly to next focus. Transport alt warps and cloaks through every gate because most of the value is in the transport. Of course the transport alt gets there faster. And I kept a Gila or a Tengu in the bowhead as well, so while i would run incursions on one character, the transport alt would be in the next constellation over using drones or fof missiles to do anomalies to get escalations (drones and fof missiles require very little attention so are easy to multibox with an incursion toon)..

Just put some thought into it and it's possible to be almost 100% safe.


damn. i wonder how your sec status would be if it wasnt capped :D

Pras Phil.

Ima Wreckyou
The Conference Elite
Safety.
#36 - 2017-06-07 09:15:23 UTC
Desmios Sanguis wrote:
Thank you all for your help.

One thing Im noticing is that all the extra time / effort it seems that needs to be done to make a bowhead safe, defeats the purpose in the first place.

The purpose of me flyng a bowhead is to cut down the time it takes to move ships from incursion to incursion.

If I have to have a separate account webbing, constantly checking map for 24hr gank, etc. etc. -- what is the point in the first place? It is not saving me any time.

Am I missing something?

If you use the MWD trick I described you will not only be incredibly more secure, but also a lot lot faster to transport your stuff. And you don't need a webbing alt. Try it out
Samwise Everquest
Plus 10 NV
#37 - 2017-06-07 09:21:25 UTC  |  Edited by: Samwise Everquest
Burgein wrote:
yadda yadda

I would be fine with suicide ganks if people had the balls to do it with their main character.


As you post on your alt.

Pras Phil.

Chainsaw Plankton
FaDoyToy
#38 - 2017-06-07 14:34:31 UTC
Desmios Sanguis wrote:
Thank you all for your help.

One thing Im noticing is that all the extra time / effort it seems that needs to be done to make a bowhead safe, defeats the purpose in the first place.

The purpose of me flyng a bowhead is to cut down the time it takes to move ships from incursion to incursion.

If I have to have a separate account webbing, constantly checking map for 24hr gank, etc. etc. -- what is the point in the first place? It is not saving me any time.

Am I missing something?

less than one bowhead dies a day and almost none of them have tank fits. the one that did took 9 talos (~100m each) and 15 bombers (~30m each) to gank a total of 1.35 bil, double that to get the break even loot value, and probably add another bil on top of that for the payout. Most of the time spent ganking is spent waiting around bored, if you are in it for the money you want to hit the good targets. They were worth over 15bil, more than 10 times the value of the gank ships. I scrolled back a few more pages and the only ohter full tank bowheads were carrying 40bil and 27bil which is just crazy.

honestly things like checking the map are not really going to do anything they are going to keep the characters logged off or in a nearby station until they are ready to gank. Also volume killed really means nothing. most of the pro freighter gankers are looking for whales and whale only and they don't come by too often. by the time the warning signals show up on the map your ship is probably already dead.

aside from events like burn jita gankers are mainly in it for the profit. And looks like code will sometimes gank cargo expanded freighters in uedama for lulz.

tl;dr: use a full tank fit, carry under 2bil, 1 mwd cycle into warp, and you should be fine

@ChainsawPlankto on twitter

Jenn aSide
Worthless Carebears
Pandemic Horde
#39 - 2017-06-07 14:40:25 UTC
Chainsaw Plankton wrote:

less than one bowhead dies a day and almost none of them have tank fits.


You really could have stopped typing right there, because that's the end of this thread Big smile
Cade Windstalker
#40 - 2017-06-07 14:47:23 UTC
OP, check the kills and your question will answer itself.

The only bowheads that die in High Sec with any regularity are idiots who fit for speed instead of tank, and people who fly them around while wardec'd. If you use the fit you posted it'll take something like 20-30 bombers to kill you and if you do a one-cycle MWD jump when coming off a gate they'll have trouble even catching you to bump off the gate.

There are literally two tanked Bowhead deaths to a gank (as opposed to a Wardec) that I can find since February. One of those was Burn Jita with over 100 Coercers on the kill, and the other died to 26 Talos and was carrying 14 B-Type Invulns in its cargo.

In short OP, tank your ship and actively fly it and you'll be fine.
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