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Crime & Punishment

 
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Crime and NO punishment

First post
Author
Yebo Lakatosh
Brutor Tribe
Minmatar Republic
#41 - 2017-06-10 15:29:54 UTC
Dracvlad wrote:
The ganker game is seriously unbalanced in favour of gankers
Help me place this line into context by answering two questions:

- Have you ever ganked someone?

- Did you ever fly a character with lower than -5 security status?

Elite F1 pilot since YC119, incarnate of honor, integrity and tidi.

Dracvlad
Taishi Combine
Astral Alliance
#42 - 2017-06-10 15:33:28 UTC
Yebo Lakatosh wrote:
Dracvlad wrote:
The ganker game is seriously unbalanced in favour of gankers
Help me place this line into context by answering two questions:

- Have you ever ganked someone?

- Did you ever fly a character with lower than -5 security status?


- Yes

- Yes

When the going gets tough the Gankers get their CSM rep to change mechanics in their favour.

Blocked: Teckos Pech, Sonya Corvinus, baltec1, Shae Tadaruwa, Wander Prian, Daichi Yamato, Jonah Gravenstein, Merin Ryskin, Linus Gorp

Yebo Lakatosh
Brutor Tribe
Minmatar Republic
#43 - 2017-06-10 15:53:58 UTC
Then I'm really curious what do you mean. Unbalanced in what manner? Miners and haulers definately won't kill as much as gankers, so there is that, but I doubt this is what you mean.

Or do you mean income? I don't know what top-tier haulers make, but the top-tier miners I know make a crapton - even after two rorqual nerfs. To get that income, they click on a rock.

Now with many players and/or accounts, extreme level of coordination, planning and expertise those who focus on freighters may earn a comparable amount.. on very active and lucky days. Ahh, and they need to pay a lot if they ever decide that they want to use their -10 characters for something else than ganking.

Elite F1 pilot since YC119, incarnate of honor, integrity and tidi.

Dracvlad
Taishi Combine
Astral Alliance
#44 - 2017-06-10 16:14:47 UTC  |  Edited by: Dracvlad
Yebo Lakatosh wrote:
Then I'm really curious what do you mean. Unbalanced in what manner? Miners and haulers definately won't kill as much as gankers, so there is that, but I doubt this is what you mean.

Or do you mean income? I don't know what top-tier haulers make, but the top-tier miners I know make a crapton - even after two rorqual nerfs. To get that income, they click on a rock.

Now with many players and/or accounts, extreme level of coordination, planning and expertise those who focus on freighters may earn a comparable amount.. on very active and lucky days. Ahh, and they need to pay a lot if they ever decide that they want to use their -10 characters for something else than ganking.


I have a couple of issues, the first is bumping which is a way of getting a point and being protected by CONCORD, in its current form it is broken IMO. This is the most serious one as it has no counter for the majority of people in hisec. So there is no mad rush to get away and no mad rush to get on the kill, it is stale boring player for the freighter pilot which is also a major issue. Where is the fun making a run for it and trying to time it when the gankers are in their fifteen minutes, seriously lame....

I do believe that inability to enter NPC stations in hisec when -10 should be applied, you have citadels which then adds gameplay options, perhaps AG will then man up to go after them?

Loot scooping through DST's using a noob ship is avoiding consequences.

I regret the wreck ehp change only in that it was too great and too final, if they had graded it in maybe the AG players could have adjusted for it, anyway its done and dusted.

Apart from that I am fine with it.

I know that some of the gankers will tell me this is all salt or attention seeking, but it is merely my opinion.

When the going gets tough the Gankers get their CSM rep to change mechanics in their favour.

Blocked: Teckos Pech, Sonya Corvinus, baltec1, Shae Tadaruwa, Wander Prian, Daichi Yamato, Jonah Gravenstein, Merin Ryskin, Linus Gorp

Yebo Lakatosh
Brutor Tribe
Minmatar Republic
#45 - 2017-06-10 16:47:59 UTC
Hmm. I don't know too much about freighters, and I hate to be the one who debates based on rumors and assumptions. Though rumor is that experienced freighter pilots who pay attention just don't get caught. But mehh, what do I know.

I love where your bumping idea is going though. Are you saying that when two spaceships collide in highsec, they should both go suspect, so AG could shoot bumpers? Pirate

Docking on NPC stations feels pretty moot - HS is littered with freeports anyways.

Has no clue about wrecks either.

Elite F1 pilot since YC119, incarnate of honor, integrity and tidi.

Dracvlad
Taishi Combine
Astral Alliance
#46 - 2017-06-10 16:54:56 UTC  |  Edited by: Dracvlad
Yebo Lakatosh wrote:
Hmm. I don't know too much about freighters, and I hate to be the one who debates based on rumors and assumptions. Though rumor is that experienced freighter pilots who pay attention just don't get caught. But mehh, what do I know.

I love where your bumping idea is going though. Are you saying that when two spaceships collide in highsec, they should both go suspect, so AG could shoot bumpers? Pirate

Docking on NPC stations feels pretty moot - HS is littered with freeports anyways.

Has no clue about wrecks either.



No I am not suggesting that two people who bump go suspect, that would make it really easy for gankers, stupidly so, I hope you are joking. I would actually have it so that if a ship bumps someone for more than 20 times plus a random amount they will go suspect, also the code will evaluate if the ship that bumped used a prop module or not before the bump and in that case defining it as an aggresive act and subject to this counter.

Your rumour is incorrect, go and look at the killboard for Greyhorse, at the bottom there you will see a webber in the same corp, the rumour is that webbing makes you safe, you know what rumours are Big smile

The fact taht citadels exist means that NPC docking rights can be removed for -10 and in doing so people have something they can go against, creates meaningful content in terms of closing down citadels that allow gankers to operate, then perhaps AG will develop a war dec arm, which would be a good thing in my opinion...

When the going gets tough the Gankers get their CSM rep to change mechanics in their favour.

Blocked: Teckos Pech, Sonya Corvinus, baltec1, Shae Tadaruwa, Wander Prian, Daichi Yamato, Jonah Gravenstein, Merin Ryskin, Linus Gorp

Jamwara DelCalicoe Ashley
SniggWaffe
Pandemic Horde
#47 - 2017-06-10 17:04:35 UTC
This thread is going places...
Dom Arkaral
Bannheim
Cuttlefish Collective
#48 - 2017-06-10 17:15:39 UTC
Dracvlad wrote:
Yebo Lakatosh wrote:
Then I'm really curious what do you mean. Unbalanced in what manner? Miners and haulers definately won't kill as much as gankers, so there is that, but I doubt this is what you mean.

Or do you mean income? I don't know what top-tier haulers make, but the top-tier miners I know make a crapton - even after two rorqual nerfs. To get that income, they click on a rock.

Now with many players and/or accounts, extreme level of coordination, planning and expertise those who focus on freighters may earn a comparable amount.. on very active and lucky days. Ahh, and they need to pay a lot if they ever decide that they want to use their -10 characters for something else than ganking.


I have a couple of issues, the first is bumping which is a way of getting a point and being protected by CONCORD, in its current form it is broken IMO. This is the most serious one as it has no counter for the majority of people in hisec. So there is no mad rush to get away and no mad rush to get on the kill, it is stale boring player for the freighter pilot which is also a major issue. Where is the fun making a run for it and trying to time it when the gankers are in their fifteen minutes, seriously lame....

I do believe that inability to enter NPC stations in hisec when -10 should be applied, you have citadels which then adds gameplay options, perhaps AG will then man up to go after them?

Loot scooping through DST's using a noob ship is avoiding consequences.

I regret the wreck ehp change only in that it was too great and too final, if they had graded it in maybe the AG players could have adjusted for it, anyway its done and dusted.

Apart from that I am fine with it.

I know that some of the gankers will tell me this is all salt or attention seeking, but it is merely my opinion.

lol if you had watched the Max Singularity Fanfest Presentation on physics you'd understand why bumping makes total sense..

Tear Gatherer. Quebecker. Has no Honer. Salt Harvester.

Broadcast 4 Reps -- YOU ARE NOT ALONE, EVER

Instigator of the First ISD Thunderdome

CCL Loyalist

Dracvlad
Taishi Combine
Astral Alliance
#49 - 2017-06-10 17:23:22 UTC  |  Edited by: Dracvlad
Dom Arkaral wrote:

lol if you had watched the Max Singularity Fanfest Presentation on physics you'd understand why bumping makes total sense..


Yeah right... Lol

When the going gets tough the Gankers get their CSM rep to change mechanics in their favour.

Blocked: Teckos Pech, Sonya Corvinus, baltec1, Shae Tadaruwa, Wander Prian, Daichi Yamato, Jonah Gravenstein, Merin Ryskin, Linus Gorp

Dom Arkaral
Bannheim
Cuttlefish Collective
#50 - 2017-06-10 17:28:29 UTC
Dracvlad wrote:
Dom Arkaral wrote:

lol if you had watched the Max Singularity Fanfest Presentation on physics you'd understand why bumping makes total sense..


Yeah right... Lol

did you watch it? the bumping physics are explained with lore..
your loss if you want to plug your ears lol

Tear Gatherer. Quebecker. Has no Honer. Salt Harvester.

Broadcast 4 Reps -- YOU ARE NOT ALONE, EVER

Instigator of the First ISD Thunderdome

CCL Loyalist

Dracvlad
Taishi Combine
Astral Alliance
#51 - 2017-06-10 17:34:50 UTC
Dom Arkaral wrote:
Dracvlad wrote:
Dom Arkaral wrote:

lol if you had watched the Max Singularity Fanfest Presentation on physics you'd understand why bumping makes total sense..


Yeah right... Lol

did you watch it? the bumping physics are explained with lore..
your loss if you want to plug your ears lol


I will have a butchers, I rather liked baltec1's presentation, so why not. Still I come at it from the side of balance in having engaging game play for the freighter too rather than just sitting there being bumped, how cool is that, which of course you are not interested in. But anyway, as I did not find that engaging game play for me I decided to dump my freighters....

When the going gets tough the Gankers get their CSM rep to change mechanics in their favour.

Blocked: Teckos Pech, Sonya Corvinus, baltec1, Shae Tadaruwa, Wander Prian, Daichi Yamato, Jonah Gravenstein, Merin Ryskin, Linus Gorp

Yebo Lakatosh
Brutor Tribe
Minmatar Republic
#52 - 2017-06-10 17:56:17 UTC  |  Edited by: Yebo Lakatosh
Dracvlad wrote:
I would actually have it so that if a ship bumps someone for more than 20 times plus a random amount they will go suspect, also the code will evaluate if the ship that bumped used a prop module or not before the bump and in that case defining it as an aggresive act and subject to this counter.
That sounds like a nedlessly complicated mechanic that would result in bumpers keeping (yet) another account so they could rotate their bumping ships. I believe it wouldn't result in less freighters being ganked. Operating costs would raise.

Dracvlad wrote:
Your rumour is incorrect, go and look at the killboard for Greyhorse, at the bottom there you will see a webber in the same corp, the rumour is that webbing makes you safe, you know what rumours are Big smile
The rumor I heard isn't about webbing, but intelligence. Not the one that's (supposed to be) in people's heads, but the one that is provided by alts, or even friends.

Dracvlad wrote:
The fact taht citadels exist means that NPC docking rights can be removed for -10 and in doing so people have something they can go against, creates meaningful content in terms of closing down citadels that allow gankers to operate, then perhaps AG will develop a war dec arm, which would be a good thing in my opinion...
That would indeed be fun... if citadels weren't dirt-cheap with double-timers.

Also... those kind trader-industrial fellows love that everyone and their mother can dock and tether at their stations. I'd much much popcorn while reading their reaction when they realize that AG of all people are the ones who started taking down their assets.

Elite F1 pilot since YC119, incarnate of honor, integrity and tidi.

Dracvlad
Taishi Combine
Astral Alliance
#53 - 2017-06-10 19:12:08 UTC  |  Edited by: Dracvlad
Yebo Lakatosh wrote:
Dracvlad wrote:
I would actually have it so that if a ship bumps someone for more than 20 times plus a random amount they will go suspect, also the code will evaluate if the ship that bumped used a prop module or not before the bump and in that case defining it as an aggresive act and subject to this counter.
That sounds like a nedlessly complicated mechanic that would result in bumpers keeping (yet) another account so they could rotate their bumping ships. I believe it wouldn't result in less freighters being ganked. Operating costs would raise.

Dracvlad wrote:
Your rumour is incorrect, go and look at the killboard for Greyhorse, at the bottom there you will see a webber in the same corp, the rumour is that webbing makes you safe, you know what rumours are Big smile
The rumor I heard isn't about webbing, but intelligence. Not the one that's (supposed to be) in people's heads, but the one that is provided by alts, or even friends.

Dracvlad wrote:
The fact taht citadels exist means that NPC docking rights can be removed for -10 and in doing so people have something they can go against, creates meaningful content in terms of closing down citadels that allow gankers to operate, then perhaps AG will develop a war dec arm, which would be a good thing in my opinion...
That would indeed be fun... if citadels weren't dirt-cheap with double-timers.

Also... those kind trader-industrial fellows love that everyone and their mother can dock and tether at their stations. I'd much much popcorn while reading their reaction when they realize that AG of all people are the ones who started taking down their assets.


The issue here is that if I remove bumping as a mechanism it would be come too hard, so trying to find a balance between the two is why I suggested that, I would just change bumping so it is not so doable and then have mad chases and people holding cloaks etc., but then your operating costs would be huge and I am all about balance.

I will reply on the intelligence side, I am difficult to kill and play the game with intelligence weighing up risk and counters, and I made the call that there was no intelligent play that could counter a bumper Macherial and a suicide point even though I have alts and friends, the alts can give me intel, as can the AG intel channel, but if the only counter is dock up and wait it out then that is akin to docking up in null sec when a roaming gang comes in, as I say great game play and if you ignore that then what can I say, so you know that a Macherial is waiting on a gate and a blackbird is on scan. If the only counter is having three friends on call with Talos's to gank the Macherial for no benefit as per your operating costs then aha, there we go.... I know how the gankers operate and know how difficult it is to avoid them when you are going through choke points.

Whenever one looks at this area you have to look at it from both sides, currently I think gankers ahve a lot of advantages, however I really do not want to destroy this game play.

Anyway you asked so I gave you my opinion on what I saw when in hisec, I currently operate 100% in null sec.

When the going gets tough the Gankers get their CSM rep to change mechanics in their favour.

Blocked: Teckos Pech, Sonya Corvinus, baltec1, Shae Tadaruwa, Wander Prian, Daichi Yamato, Jonah Gravenstein, Merin Ryskin, Linus Gorp

Mike Adoulin
Adolescent Radioactive Pirate Hamsters
CODE.
#54 - 2017-06-10 20:19:42 UTC
Dracvlad wrote:
Whenever one looks at this area you have to look at it from both sides, currently I think gankers ahve a lot of advantages, however I really do not want to not destroy this game play..


HAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAH
Yeah, with CONCORD response time being buffed, ships ehp overall being buffed....its just so easy compared to, say 5 years ago.

The main advantage they have is pushing F1.....

Dracvlad wrote:
Anyway you asked so I gave you my opinion on what I saw when in hisec, I currently operate 100% in null sec.


Then no-one cares WHAT you think, nullbear.

Roll

Everything in EVE is a trap.

And if it isn't, it's your job to make it a trap...:)

You want to know what immorality in EVE Online looks like? Look no further than Ripard "Jester" Teg.

Chribba is the Chuck Norris of EVE.

Dracvlad
Taishi Combine
Astral Alliance
#55 - 2017-06-10 20:30:13 UTC  |  Edited by: Dracvlad
Mike Adoulin wrote:
Dracvlad wrote:
Whenever one looks at this area you have to look at it from both sides, currently I think gankers ahve a lot of advantages, however I really do not want to destroy this game play..


HAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAH
Yeah, with CONCORD response time being buffed, ships ehp overall being buffed....its just so easy compared to, say 5 years ago.

The main advantage they have is pushing F1.....

Dracvlad wrote:
Anyway you asked so I gave you my opinion on what I saw when in hisec, I currently operate 100% in null sec.


Then no-one cares WHAT you think, nullbear.

Roll


And yet freighters were hardly being blapped at all five years ago. Another lame reply from the pipsqueak of C&P. Evil

Yawn, spent quite a lot of time in hisec not long ago, and a large part of that was observing and interacting with the gankers, but what does that matter to a wit such as yours?

EDIT at least your witless post enabled me to see a rogue not in my previous post which I corrected in this reply and my original post, so at least you were slightly useful.

When the going gets tough the Gankers get their CSM rep to change mechanics in their favour.

Blocked: Teckos Pech, Sonya Corvinus, baltec1, Shae Tadaruwa, Wander Prian, Daichi Yamato, Jonah Gravenstein, Merin Ryskin, Linus Gorp

Vipsan Agrippa
Machine Gun Coitus
#56 - 2017-06-10 20:40:41 UTC
Hard to take seriously a person who surrounds himself with gerbils.Roll

Least Lemmiwinks has found a safe home in him.P




  • Fk Bob Praise Kek! -

They will throw them into the blazing furnace, where there will be weeping and gnashing of teeth.

Alliances will rise and fall, but one constant in Eve is the smouldering dumpster that is C & P.

(Bob's a cuck)

Mike Adoulin
Adolescent Radioactive Pirate Hamsters
CODE.
#57 - 2017-06-10 21:34:59 UTC
Dracvlad wrote:
And yet freighters were hardly being blapped at all five years ago. Another lame reply from the pipsqueak of C&P.



Another lame response from the gutless whiner of the forums.

There used to be this thing called Hulkageddon. If it had been modified to include freighters, you would have seen freighters dying like flies, genius.

Dracvlad wrote:
Yawn, spent quite a lot of time in hisec not long ago, and a large part of that was observing and interacting with the gankers, but what does that matter to a wit such as yours?


Not a thing. Being you A) don't even know Basic Eve Game Mechanics, and B) are a clueless nullbear.

Dracvlad wrote:
EDIT at least your witless post enabled me to see a rogue not in my previous post which I corrected in this reply and my original post, so at least you were slightly useful.



And here you are, not being useful at all. Which is typical.

Everything in EVE is a trap.

And if it isn't, it's your job to make it a trap...:)

You want to know what immorality in EVE Online looks like? Look no further than Ripard "Jester" Teg.

Chribba is the Chuck Norris of EVE.

Super Perforator
New Order Logistics
CODE.
#58 - 2017-06-10 22:25:19 UTC
Yebo Lakatosh wrote:
Also... those kind trader-industrial fellows love that everyone and their mother can dock and tether at their stations. I'd much much popcorn while reading their reaction when they realize that AG of all people are the ones who started taking down their assets.


Everyone likes to have an enemy to rail against... but sometimes I think that "Anti-Ganking" is given much more attention than it deserves. Even in a thread by Rusell.

https://forums.eveonline.com/default.aspx?g=posts&m=5610165#post5610165


Praise James!

Noragen Neirfallas
Emotional Net Loss
#59 - 2017-06-10 22:55:11 UTC
Drac I like you but when 20 prepared people come together with the single purpose of destroying 1 ship it should require an equally prepared group to fend them off. We all know if 20 people were defending in logi or jam ships ganks would fail on the regular. In a game of N+1 can anybody be truly be upset when the side with more numbers wins more often?

Member and Judge of the Court of Crime and Punishment

Noragens basically the Chribba of C&P - Zimmy Zeta

Confirming that we all play in Noragen's eve. - BeBopAReBop

ISD Buldath favorite ISD

'"****station games" - Sun Tzu' - Ralph King Griffin

Clockwork Robot
Science and Trade Institute
Caldari State
#60 - 2017-06-11 00:32:07 UTC
Mike Adoulin wrote:
Dracvlad wrote:
And yet freighters were hardly being blapped at all five years ago. Another lame reply from the pipsqueak of C&P.



Another lame response from the gutless whiner of the forums.

There used to be this thing called Hulkageddon. If it had been modified to include freighters, you would have seen freighters dying like flies, genius.

Dracvlad wrote:
Yawn, spent quite a lot of time in hisec not long ago, and a large part of that was observing and interacting with the gankers, but what does that matter to a wit such as yours?


Not a thing. Being you A) don't even know Basic Eve Game Mechanics, and B) are a clueless nullbear.

Dracvlad wrote:
EDIT at least your witless post enabled me to see a rogue not in my previous post which I corrected in this reply and my original post, so at least you were slightly useful.



And here you are, not being useful at all. Which is typical.




You are being needlessly hostile in your last few posts. Doing this undermines your premise, which certainly reads like it could stand on its own, without the insults. (Like a few posters herein, I confess total ignorance of the mechanics in play.)

Regardless, Mike, calm down a bit. You sound like you do understand what you're espousing. So you're more informed than I am.
Try to comport yourself like you do.