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[June] Nullsec Asteroid Cluster and Excavator Drone changes

First post First post
Author
Julie Oppenheimer
COX INDUSTRIES
#621 - 2017-06-09 18:30:33 UTC
The yield changes are unnecessary, they will negatively impact smaller entities while having no impact on larger entities who will only and another Rorq or 2 to their fleets. The primary reason there's so much mined is because (1) it's easy to multibox Rorq's and (2) the number of anomalies available (which you are correctly nerfing). Make the Rorq drones operate more like fighters any you'll see less ore mined due to people not being able to multibox nearly as many accounts at once.

If anything, do the above and possible reverse the earlier yield nerfs.
The Mach
Phocas Legacy
From Ashes we Rise
#622 - 2017-06-09 19:51:30 UTC
Balancing the game because of one alliance isn't sustainable either. Just resize your graph and you'll see the changes made by this patch.

I think:
Respawn timers = OK (maybe go harder on these instead of ship changes)
Ship & drone changes = terribad

You'll end up nerfing smaller corps and alliances to a greater extent with ship changes.
Tau Cabalander
Retirement Retreat
Working Stiffs
#623 - 2017-06-09 20:11:11 UTC  |  Edited by: Tau Cabalander
"I can tell you that this is one of the moments where we look at what our players do and less of what they say."
~~ Hilmar Veigar P├ętursson

My four accounts are now unsubscribed. Do you hear me now?

It's not these changes alone, either.

My Rorqual hasn't even un-docked from the lowsec system it has been docked in since the first overhaul. I repackaged it, and put it up for sale last evening. I still can't afford excavators either.

Let's go back to the beginning, where CCP didn't consult players for what was needed with the Rorqual and mining. I can understand that CCP just doesn't understand industry.

The same CCP that only find their way to the Science & Industry forum to moderate, or when they are lost. [We forum regulars haven't forgotten the request for feedback thread that CCP posted and abandoned for TWO YEARS before it was unpinned.]
Teckos Pech
Hogyoku
Goonswarm Federation
#624 - 2017-06-09 22:59:12 UTC
32 pages of histrionics...awesome.

Has anyone mentioned that the mineral price index has fallen from just under 120 to about 95 since May 2016, an approximate decline of 21%?

"The curious task of economics is to demonstrate to men how little they really know about what they imagine they can design."--Friedrich August von Hayek

8 Golden Rules for EVE Online

Ga'kest Malinkorn
kest Industrials
#625 - 2017-06-09 23:35:24 UTC
nerfing.. huh! this is all about keeping clients subscribing nothing else, all flowered up to be in "in game economics"... yea right! the longer it takes us to do stuff, then we gonna pay for the 3/6/12 month subscription, imagine if EVERYONE got a free plex for a year..ha! wouldn't happen would it, the amount of nerfin that has taken place over the years is a joke. period. Ive drop my sub to 3 months at a time now and pending on how i get on with stuff.. not sure whether I'll continue, why, cos i just CAN?T be bothered hanging around, the overall gaming player numbers have dropped by half since i started 8yrs back.. it takes for ever to do anything.. (of course this doesn't apply to constant in game plex users- obviously) but how many are there of them compared to real money subscribers...
Radious Servasse
Deep Core Mining Inc.
Caldari State
#626 - 2017-06-10 00:12:52 UTC
CCP is nerfing mining. "The economy is unhealthy." 32 pages of rage in a week. CCP is nerfing carrier ratting. 51 pages of rage in a day.

CCP thinks the economy is in bad health because of too much isk. You don't nerf rorqs and carrier ratting at the same time. Rorqs account for most of the mining done in New Eden and now they are being nerved because of the bad economy. CCP has not changed a thing, just ruined the amount of isk that is to be made. Since ore has subjective value based on supply and demand, rorqs in the long term won't be too bad off as ore prices rise (Except for the new tears involved in mining). Carrier ratting on the other hand are going to be screwed.

Looks like CCP is delibratly trying to kill it's long-term players.
Teckos Pech
Hogyoku
Goonswarm Federation
#627 - 2017-06-10 00:34:11 UTC
Radious Servasse wrote:
CCP is nerfing mining. "The economy is unhealthy." 32 pages of rage in a week. CCP is nerfing carrier ratting. 51 pages of rage in a day.

CCP thinks the economy is in bad health because of too much isk. You don't nerf rorqs and carrier ratting at the same time. Rorqs account for most of the mining done in New Eden and now they are being nerved because of the bad economy. CCP has not changed a thing, just ruined the amount of isk that is to be made. Since ore has subjective value based on supply and demand, rorqs in the long term won't be too bad off as ore prices rise (Except for the new tears involved in mining). Carrier ratting on the other hand are going to be screwed.

Looks like CCP is delibratly trying to kill it's long-term players.



A rapid rise in the money supply can be bad for an economy. It can lead to inflation. Now while there is not much inflation at the moment, letting this go until prices start rising dramatically is probably not a good thing.

As for minerals the mineral price index has been falling for the past 13 months. This suggests that ALOT of minerals are entering the markets and depressing prices.

Both of these are two macro trends are troubling at the very least.

Now, perhaps if you cut out the hysterics and engaged your brain a bit you'd see that these while unfortunate for rorqual and carrier/super pilots, these changes should probably be made.

"The curious task of economics is to demonstrate to men how little they really know about what they imagine they can design."--Friedrich August von Hayek

8 Golden Rules for EVE Online

Hroovitnir
Machiavellian Empire
Test Alliance Please Ignore
#628 - 2017-06-10 01:56:14 UTC
Hello, This is my first time posting on the Forum and i hope this is the right place for this.

Firstly, I'm a small time miner.
Second, i own 2 Rorquals.
Finally, i hope you give good feedback to me.

My first concern to the drone changes is that the drone velocity changes to an already slow drone will make billions off isk lost to NPC rats. My second concern is that the players will feel that the Risk to Reward ratio is too drastic and that the Rorqual will no longer be used. My final concern is that this drone nerf will not stop the all day Industrial Core miners they will just add more Characters to their fleet to make up for the lost yields.

My suggested Change is that the Industrial Core creates some form of Fatigue after Prolonged use that will greatly diminish the mining yields. The idea i have is that it will function as a sort of Jump Fatigue that will exponentially grow and affect the mining yields of the drones. This ill in turn make the economy balance back out and keep the risk to reward ration as high as possible.


Thank you for your time, i hope that i will get good community feedback.
Pimpin Drones
The Scope
Gallente Federation
#629 - 2017-06-10 02:18:49 UTC
Don't forget to reduce the cost about 1/4 as well.
\\You Nerf something I demand you cut the price of them as well. Pirate I have sent out many eve mails in the coming days to CSM about this issue. It needs to be address asap. If you can play with the cost of faction ships then you can cut the build cost for these drones.








CCP Fozzie wrote:
Hey folks.
We continue to keep a close eye on the impacts of the changes to mining ships that have been made over the past six months. After this observation we have decided that we need to make another intervention to keep the economy healthy. This isn't the first of such changes, and once again it is unlikely to be the last.

In the June release we are making a few targeted changes to Nullsec Asteroid Clusters (the ore anomalies created by the Ore Prospecting Array upgrade) and Excavator drones.

Firstly, we are adding a respawn cooldown to all Asteroid Cluster anomalies. This cooldown scales based on the size of the anomaly:
  • 20 minutes for the Small Asteroid Cluster
  • 1 hour for the Medium Asteroid Cluster
  • 2 hours for the Large Asteroid Cluster variants
  • 4 hours for the Enormous Asteroid Cluster variants
  • 5 hours for the Colossal Asteroid Cluster variants

These changes will only have a significant impact on the absolute busiest nullsec mining systems. The vast majority of nullsec miners will not be negatively impacted. The pilots mining in those few extremely busy systems will have the option of staggering when they mine, or simply spreading out to a few extra systems.

We are also making some more small adjustments to the Excavator drones themselves. In June the changes are:
  • About 9% less yield for Ore Excavators
  • 12.5% lower speed for Ore Excavators
  • About 11% longer cycle time for Ice Excavators
  • 10% lower speed for Ice Excavators


We will continue observing the economy after these changes and making adjustments as necessary to keep it healthy for all our players.

Double Blade
BlackWing Cartel
#630 - 2017-06-10 04:43:41 UTC
CCP has put themselves in a position where they MUST reduce the amount of available resources because the players have found a way to become too efficient at harvesting them.

Since the players have access to unlimited resources through accelerated respawn rates, there is no limit on how efficient they can become at harvesting available resources. Without a limit on resources, they will have room for infinite growth and expansion of their harvesting abilities.

The only result possible is inflation. When more resources are entering the game than leaving, we will see inflation. The more efficient the players become at extracting resources, the faster the rates of inflation.

The Eve economy is on the path to crashing.

What tipped the first domino? Skill injectors.

Skill injectors now allow players to create new characters and make them extremely efficient at harvesting resources in practically no time at all. Time was a hard limit on the amount of resources that could be harvested from the game by limiting the efficiency of a character. Now, the game is saturated by brand new, highly productive characters.

The Eve economy is being flooded by resources because the time barrier was removed. If you want the leak to stop, you have to first plug the hole. Remove skill injectors.
Teckos Pech
Hogyoku
Goonswarm Federation
#631 - 2017-06-10 05:50:26 UTC
Double Blade wrote:
CCP has put themselves in a position where they MUST reduce the amount of available resources because the players have found a way to become too efficient at harvesting them.

Since the players have access to unlimited resources through accelerated respawn rates, there is no limit on how efficient they can become at harvesting available resources. Without a limit on resources, they will have room for infinite growth and expansion of their harvesting abilities.

The only result possible is inflation. When more resources are entering the game than leaving, we will see inflation. The more efficient the players become at extracting resources, the faster the rates of inflation.

The Eve economy is on the path to crashing.

What tipped the first domino? Skill injectors.

Skill injectors now allow players to create new characters and make them extremely efficient at harvesting resources in practically no time at all. Time was a hard limit on the amount of resources that could be harvested from the game by limiting the efficiency of a character. Now, the game is saturated by brand new, highly productive characters.

The Eve economy is being flooded by resources because the time barrier was removed. If you want the leak to stop, you have to first plug the hole. Remove skill injectors.


You might have something if skill injectors created SP de novo. They don't, so you don't.

"The curious task of economics is to demonstrate to men how little they really know about what they imagine they can design."--Friedrich August von Hayek

8 Golden Rules for EVE Online

Prospektor Schipplock
Out of Omega
RECURRENCE OF BABYLON
#632 - 2017-06-10 08:40:00 UTC
Once again me...

Guys whats going on in your brains ?

If the market is going down because of that much isk, generated by Players on a player generated market. Let this bubble explode.

Well we can see Dreadnoughts at a price of 300 million dropping down. Everyone has so much money to get everthing in eve...

So what ?

Drop a new Artifical Intelligence, release Skynet in farming players and shape a new universe (muahahahaha). If the new AI grinding into gear, alliances cannot afford the losses and all the cheap isk, is going to be reduced.

Or what do you planned with the new AI in the Bloodraider Sotiyo and their fleets ?

I would like to see what happens there...
blaedin jordan
Federal Navy Academy
Gallente Federation
#633 - 2017-06-10 09:47:28 UTC
The only thing that seems fair is for CCP to reduce the subscription price to $10 monthly if they are going to destroy the efficiency of everything from carriers to rorqs. What a racket they are running.
Marcus Tedric
Zebra Corp
Goonswarm Federation
#634 - 2017-06-10 10:42:21 UTC
Hroovitnir wrote:
..........................
My suggested Change is that the Industrial Core creates some form of Fatigue after Prolonged use that will greatly diminish the mining yields. ..................


This ^^ is not a silly idea...

Don't soil your panties, you guys made a good point, we'll look at the numbers again. - CCP Ytterbium

BESTER bm
Doomheim
#635 - 2017-06-10 12:44:21 UTC
Hroovitnir wrote:
My suggested Change is that the Industrial Core creates some form of Fatigue after Prolonged use that will greatly diminish the mining yields. The idea i have is that it will function as a sort of Jump Fatigue that will exponentially grow and affect the mining yields of the drones. This ill in turn make the economy balance back out and keep the risk to reward ration as high as possible.


Wait, what? Someone who actually thinks this through and comes up with what seems to be a viable and functional alternative to the endless nerf stream?

But don't worry, CCP will ignore anything they did not come up with themselves. They will just push through what they think works even if it is proven to be broken.
Tyranus Kai
Erlenmeyer Industries
#636 - 2017-06-10 20:16:17 UTC  |  Edited by: Tyranus Kai
Teckos Pech wrote:

As for minerals the mineral price index has been falling for the past 13 months. This suggests that ALOT of minerals are entering the markets and depressing prices.

Both of these are two macro trends are troubling at the very least.

Now, perhaps if you cut out the hysterics and engaged your brain a bit you'd see that these while unfortunate for rorqual and carrier/super pilots, these changes should probably be made.


You make valid points except the Rorqual was only revamped November, so what was tanking the mineral price the previous 6ish months? And are they nerfing that?

Instead of nerfing null mining (and that is exactly what they are doing) why don't they fix the problem of mineral balance in null ores, preventing the glut of low end (and surplus) minerals making their way into hisec?
Grabit Maycon
Imperial Shipment
Amarr Empire
#637 - 2017-06-10 21:51:42 UTC
Thanks for this update, hopefully this forces people to spread out more a bit, instead of doing one big cluster**** of mining in one central system.
Teckos Pech
Hogyoku
Goonswarm Federation
#638 - 2017-06-10 23:52:01 UTC
BESTER bm wrote:
Hroovitnir wrote:
My suggested Change is that the Industrial Core creates some form of Fatigue after Prolonged use that will greatly diminish the mining yields. The idea i have is that it will function as a sort of Jump Fatigue that will exponentially grow and affect the mining yields of the drones. This ill in turn make the economy balance back out and keep the risk to reward ration as high as possible.


Wait, what? Someone who actually thinks this through and comes up with what seems to be a viable and functional alternative to the endless nerf stream?

But don't worry, CCP will ignore anything they did not come up with themselves. They will just push through what they think works even if it is proven to be broken.


It is still a nerf....

And will it accomplish it's goal? Suppose a players go from mining a couple, say, times a week for 3 hours at a time to mining 6 times a week for 1 hour and thereby avoid the fatigue and the negative effect on mining output? We are back where we started.

"The curious task of economics is to demonstrate to men how little they really know about what they imagine they can design."--Friedrich August von Hayek

8 Golden Rules for EVE Online

Teckos Pech
Hogyoku
Goonswarm Federation
#639 - 2017-06-10 23:54:19 UTC
Tyranus Kai wrote:
Teckos Pech wrote:

As for minerals the mineral price index has been falling for the past 13 months. This suggests that ALOT of minerals are entering the markets and depressing prices.

Both of these are two macro trends are troubling at the very least.

Now, perhaps if you cut out the hysterics and engaged your brain a bit you'd see that these while unfortunate for rorqual and carrier/super pilots, these changes should probably be made.


You make valid points except the Rorqual was only revamped November, so what was tanking the mineral price the previous 6ish months? And are they nerfing that?

Instead of nerfing null mining (and that is exactly what they are doing) why don't they fix the problem of mineral balance in null ores, preventing the glut of low end (and surplus) minerals making their way into hisec?


I don't know and yes they should find out what is the cause of that.

And to be fair, in looking at the in game index for minerals it did appear to be leveling off. Would it have continued to level off, maybe even go back up? I don't know. So it maybe that this nerf is a bit premature.

"The curious task of economics is to demonstrate to men how little they really know about what they imagine they can design."--Friedrich August von Hayek

8 Golden Rules for EVE Online

Ian Hestia
Garoun Investment Bank
Gallente Federation
#640 - 2017-06-10 23:59:57 UTC
Haha, CCP is so f*king afraid of people saying their opinions on their "epic" nerfs. The fighter's damage reduction thread had been closed and no more reply could be made again.

https://forums.eveonline.com/default.aspx?g=posts&t=521682&p=71