Intergalactic Summit

This is from another thread, but I figured it deserves its own one.


No ****.

That does not mean we should not keep on calling for the government to act.

It has been said elsewhere, repeatedly, but let's do this once more.

The Militia war is by nature a war of attrition. Both sides keep on pouring resources into it, and it is not just indie capsuleer resources, but also government property and Republic ships.

The Republic is smaller by far than the Empire, so in any war of attrition, if it runs for long enough, we will lose.

The TLF has demonstrated, now once and again, that we are willing to help make a difference. That is valuable in itself, and no one should belittle the achievement in space.

However, unless the government acts, we have won this pendulum tick, but lost the War.

For one, we could have someone who knows how to hold and secure territories to draft up a plan (border defense, budget and manpower estimations) to secure the region and shove it under the Tribal Council's nose repeatedly until they give an answer.

No, don't shove it under Sanmatar Shakor's nose. He doesn't actually have real power these days beyond Executive Power.

Fair question.

As I see it, there are two options on the government level:

1) Withdraw from the Militia Act and stop the toy war altogether.
I would personally prefer this option. It would allow us to stop pouring resources in the war of attrition and keep open both the option of a (granted unlikely but still) peaceful solution with the Empire and a war (that we actually could win) later. However, not being privy to the exact terms of that international agreement, I do not know what it would cost us to withdraw. The Empire obviously has an incentive to not let us do that without paying dearly.

2) Stop the toy part and make the push for the Final War now.
Now that we control the war zone and the Mary indie forces are scattered and disheartened, push on to the heart of the Empire. Strike them hard enough that we will dictate the terms of peace. Mind you, we will probably lose. My estimate that we cannot win a full-out war against the Empire still stands. What has changed is that if we stay in the current situation, we will lost with even a greater certainty.

Since it is unlikely our idiot government will have the guts for either of those, the question remains on what to do about it on the capsuleer level. There, unfortunately, our options are limited. The best suggestion I have seen so far is Valentina's above: build indie capsuleer resources and force such that we can both help limit the effects of the toy war on the Republic and prepare for whatever bad future waits us (be it the full-out war, or sheltering the last refugees from the fallen Republic).

He speaks for the Tribes when dealing with those outside the Republic. Otherwise, whatever decision on how to steer the Republic lies with the Seven Tribal Chiefs/Elders of the Tribal Council. I reckon it's best to shove the proposal under all their noses until they get annoyed enough to call for a meeting and discuss the matter.

Allright, actionable plan #1 so far: Industry.

A few pitfalls to deal with in that regard, as I'm not entirely sure if the ship blueprints we have access to can even make something that doesn't require capsuleers to work, but let's assume it does. One reasonably determined industrialist with infinite access to materials can churn out roughly 100 Typhoons a day with some dedicated BPC production backing them up. In order to manufacture on a level that would affect the Tribes (do remember the size of our nations, Navies, populations, industrial capacity and so forth) it'll require quite a few capsuleers of that capacity and capability. That opens a few questions:

1. Any industry on a level that'll affect a nation will require humongous resources. Where from?
2. What do we do with the produce? Stockpile it and wait for a war? Only ones who are buying are other capsuleers.
3. How to maintain interest from the capsuleers involved? There's nothing in this for them.
4. Is it even reasonable to expect capsuleers to dump their assets and ISK into this without getting something from it?

I don't think this is a viable approach. At the moment, capsuleers are extremely limited in how we can affect our nations in every way. By design. We can't even see most civilian traffic, our markets are cut off from baseliner economies and so on. I think there's a different option that I've mentioned before but feel bears repeating:

Be ready for when that changes. One of the greatest problems we have seen so far for all nations when it comes to capsuleer loyalists is that the numbers have always been dwindling, for several reasons. One is exactly that we have been surgically excised from our nations in pretty much every way that matters as capsuleers, and another is that most loyalist entities have historically severely limited their ambitions as capsuleer organizations and thus basically become the kiddie pools that people grow out of sooner or later. The combined frustrations of not being able to actually do anything worthwhile for their own, while the grass, toys and wealth over yonder are always tempting serves to draw them away elsewhere.

When New Eden changes and capsuleers suddenly starts mattering - if that happens before CONCORD pulls the plug on this experiment - it'll be too late to start remedying this. You won't be able to grow an organization worth **** all when that has come to pass, so it needs to be done before then.

And it's never going to happen in highsec or the Pendulum Wars.

Expand the scope. Increase the ambitions. Set big goals. Start small, certainly, but the final aim should be being able to go toe to toe with any entity in our space. Being able to fight Shadow Cartel on equal footing. Being able to exploit the incredible industrial potential of nullsec space. Being able to deploy a capital force to be reckoned with across New Eden in a day. Hiding under the skirts of the Republic won't make anyone a weapon worth wielding by the Tribes.

Start thinking and competing on the scales of capsuleers, not dismissing that as something for non-loyalists or whatever else.

Make an organization, an Alliance, that can do more than float around in the kiddie pool. Make it a predator to be feared in the deepest seas among the stars. Then we might be ready for the day when we can actually do something for the Tribes. It'll be far too late to start when that day has come and the real capsuleer power houses come knocking and wanting to play.

It was one example, but pretty much all our industry options are in some way or another directly related to capsuleer violence, industry and infrastructure.

... were you suggesting that we should all be manufacturing livestock or something?

Either way, 'stockpiling assets' isn't going to be something that'll draw much attention nor interest. We do that by default as capsuleers. The trick is giving capsuleers something to use those assets for, or against.

"build indie capsuleer resources and force such that we can both help limit the effects of the toy war on the Republic" sounded rather different, but allright.

The suggestion still stands, but I have a sneaking suspicion it'll remain merely words on the IGS. If memory serves, the last time it was brought up, there was mention of 'treason'.

When Jamyl was on the throne, there might have been a case to argue for pushing on to the Sarum Prime system, to demonstrate the resolve of the Republic. As I recall it's only a few jumps out from the war zone.

But with Catiz on the throne, then pushing to Tash-Murkon Prime is a bigger task. Bhizheba, Imperial Navy HQ itself stands in the way.

Convince the Empress that the war makes no economic sense and you might have a chance at a settled peace. I am not sure you can get a military solution.

And of course there is always the prospect of a military inclined Emperor appearing who could put the Empire on a total war footing.

I was going to make a southerner joke, but instead I'll apologize for unintentionally belittling you. My apologies.



This is a simple matter of honest insight into oneself. I am not an organizational leader. I don't have the skills, personality or charisma of someone who organizes and leads people. I could at best be the person on stage that makes the big statements and points in the right direction, while someone else did the difficult jobs. On an organizational chart, I'm an awkward floating element somewhere off to the left because I don't take orders well nor am I the kind of person other people take orders from unless they're the kind who'll follow someone on their ability to take out a bulkhead with someone else's head alone.

I'm an asset to be used. When there are no loyalists interested in that sort of asset, with the ambitions needed for such things, well then that asset goes elsewhere to those who do.

I can tell you this much: If I returned to Kyn'aldrnari and proclaimed my intent to take every moon and POCO in our space, or carve out a piece of nullsec for Tribe loyalists to fight for and thrive in, for the sake of the Republic... well, I doubt a lot of people would walk that path behind me.

Would you?

It does?

Why?