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Idea: Auto logoff after 20-30 minutes of idle time
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Sonya Corvinus
Grant Village
#41 - 2017-05-29 00:29:55 UTC
Kassimila wrote:
My only motive sir, is to have lag free 500 person fleet fights. I believe booting afk players is a good step towards that goal. I can't see how people not playing the game are adding any benefit to it. Can you?


where to start...

first, you actually enjoy 500 person fleet fights? Pressing F1 when an FC says so for hours and nothing else? That's fun somehow? oh honey....just save some time and watch a youtube video instead. It's just as challenging and just as easy to do.

second, AFK people in those systems don't add anything to lag.

third, obviously, and the real issue here, you want to PvE easier in null. someone AFK can't hurt you given they are...afk
Natural CloneKiller
Commonwealth Mercenaries
BLACKFLAG.
#42 - 2017-05-29 00:39:34 UTC
Kassimila wrote:
This is a pretty standard feature in most online games. I'm not sure why Eve Online hasn't implemented it.

Benefits :
Less Server load.
Less Tidi
Less load on the network pipe.
Accurate Count of people playing the game.

Con:
Afk people have to reconnect to the game.




No no no no no....slaps go back to your cave.
Kassimila
Deep Core Mining Inc.
Caldari State
#43 - 2017-05-29 00:51:03 UTC
Teckos Pech wrote:
How exactly do you know a person is AFK?

I could be ATK, just not providing any input to the client. I could be ATK watching a gate and talking on voice comms. I could be ATK, but working on some spreadsheets for my invention business. I could be ATK and watching netflix and periodically checking up on market orders.

The point is, how many false positives are you going to get? And if CCP says, "AFK players impose no problem in terms of server load." Why not avoid the issue of false positives and just not do it.

Sorry, -1.


Oh my! An actual ON TOPIC question! From a goon no less.

Well friend, this isn't a complicated endeavor. After 30 minutes without any keyboard input to the client you popup a window that said "Are you there pilot?" (Yes). You also issue a command bringing the window to the front of the desktop focus. That player than clicks yes, restarting the 30 minute timer. If they don't click anything within 5 additional minutes, socket closed. I fail to see how this would generate any 'false positives', if you didn't click the popup then you're not at the keyboard.

AFK players don't generate a large amount of load, is all CCP has said. Booting them off the server would free up resources, that's an undeniable fact. Those resources could be better used supporting the active player base.
Kassimila
Deep Core Mining Inc.
Caldari State
#44 - 2017-05-29 01:01:31 UTC
Sonya Corvinus wrote:
Kassimila wrote:
My only motive sir, is to have lag free 500 person fleet fights. I believe booting afk players is a good step towards that goal. I can't see how people not playing the game are adding any benefit to it. Can you?


where to start...

first, you actually enjoy 500 person fleet fights? Pressing F1 when an FC says so for hours and nothing else? That's fun somehow? oh honey....just save some time and watch a youtube video instead. It's just as challenging and just as easy to do.

second, AFK people in those systems don't add anything to lag.

third, obviously, and the real issue here, you want to PvE easier in null. someone AFK can't hurt you given they are...afk


When they are lag free, they are a blast actually. If all you're doing in a fleet fight is pressing F1, you have much to learn. I'm not referring to 'afk people in the system', I'm referring to afk players on the cluster as a whole. They harm cluster performance, maybe not a ton, but they do.

To your third point, how exactly does removing afk players from the game make PvE easier?
Blade Darth
Room for Improvement
Good Sax
#45 - 2017-05-29 02:32:24 UTC
Less afk cloakers> easier pve. But it's a tiny problem, there is 1-2 dedicated groups (a guy or two with 5 blops alts, meet only one of them in 3 years) dedicated to it, rest is just some random explorers staying logged in when going to work (free power? can't turn off pc? afraid to log off? we will never know, hard to have conversation with afk people) and absolutely harmless. So it's 0.01% of the game that this auto dc would fix, and make everybody with alts who had to make a phone call or make dinner angry, having to log all toons back in.
3/10

Omen Navy Issue Tutorial
Sonya Corvinus
Grant Village
#46 - 2017-05-29 02:50:35 UTC
Kassimila wrote:
When they are lag free, they are a blast actually. If all you're doing in a fleet fight is pressing F1, you have much to learn. I'm not referring to 'afk people in the system', I'm referring to afk players on the cluster as a whole. They harm cluster performance, maybe not a ton, but they do.

To your third point, how exactly does removing afk players from the game make PvE easier?


I've been in nearly every multi--thousand player battle that's happened since 2012, and they were all mind-numbingly boring. If you want to deal with lag, talk to the people who join them not to fight, but just to get that one shot off to get on the killmail.

You live in null, right? You realize people refuse to PvE when there are neuts or reds in system, right? Removing AFK players gives null PvE-ers 100% safety.
Teckos Pech
Hogyoku
Goonswarm Federation
#47 - 2017-05-29 03:31:41 UTC  |  Edited by: Teckos Pech
Kassimila wrote:
Teckos Pech wrote:
How exactly do you know a person is AFK?

I could be ATK, just not providing any input to the client. I could be ATK watching a gate and talking on voice comms. I could be ATK, but working on some spreadsheets for my invention business. I could be ATK and watching netflix and periodically checking up on market orders.

The point is, how many false positives are you going to get? And if CCP says, "AFK players impose no problem in terms of server load." Why not avoid the issue of false positives and just not do it.

Sorry, -1.


Oh my! An actual ON TOPIC question! From a goon no less.

Well friend, this isn't a complicated endeavor. After 30 minutes without any keyboard input to the client you popup a window that said "Are you there pilot?" (Yes). You also issue a command bringing the window to the front of the desktop focus. That player than clicks yes, restarting the 30 minute timer. If they don't click anything within 5 additional minutes, socket closed. I fail to see how this would generate any 'false positives', if you didn't click the popup then you're not at the keyboard.

AFK players don't generate a large amount of load, is all CCP has said. Booting them off the server would free up resources, that's an undeniable fact. Those resources could be better used supporting the active player base.


Northern Coalition scum....

Again, still going to get some false positives. I have two screens. I can be looking at one that is say got my invention spreadsheets and miss that pop up. Similarly if I am selling things on the market. And the benefits are negligible.

"The curious task of economics is to demonstrate to men how little they really know about what they imagine they can design."--Friedrich August von Hayek

8 Golden Rules for EVE Online
mkint
#48 - 2017-05-29 03:32:45 UTC
Kassimila wrote:
Sonya Corvinus wrote:
Kassimila wrote:
My only motive sir, is to have lag free 500 person fleet fights. I believe booting afk players is a good step towards that goal. I can't see how people not playing the game are adding any benefit to it. Can you?


where to start...

first, you actually enjoy 500 person fleet fights? Pressing F1 when an FC says so for hours and nothing else? That's fun somehow? oh honey....just save some time and watch a youtube video instead. It's just as challenging and just as easy to do.

second, AFK people in those systems don't add anything to lag.

third, obviously, and the real issue here, you want to PvE easier in null. someone AFK can't hurt you given they are...afk


When they are lag free, they are a blast actually. If all you're doing in a fleet fight is pressing F1, you have much to learn. I'm not referring to 'afk people in the system', I'm referring to afk players on the cluster as a whole. They harm cluster performance, maybe not a ton, but they do.

To your third point, how exactly does removing afk players from the game make PvE easier?

Except you have it coming from multiple people that no, afkers in jita have precisely zero effect on fleet fights, especially fights on dedicated nodes. Some of us have been following every dev blog and dev post for a decade or more, watched or attended every fanfest. Some of us are as informed as can be without being actual employees. There are good reasons why the cluster works the way it does right now. One of those reasons is to fix exactly what you think needs fixing. It's already fixed. It doesn't need to be fixed. It's not a problem. Your "solution" to a problem that doesn't exist is in fact a problem. It's gibberish. Nonsense. It makes as much sense as rubbing a potato on your car to get it to go faster. It can only cause damage. Such a stupid "solution" can only have malicious ulterior motives. There's no other explanation.

All that said, I would be interested in a dev blog with a lag update, and a roadmap. Are they even working on anything new since BIAB? It seems like CCP used to be more open about personnel allocation, but the past year or two seem like there's only like 5 guys working on the entire game.

Maxim 6. If violence wasn’t your last resort, you failed to resort to enough of it.
Teckos Pech
Hogyoku
Goonswarm Federation
#49 - 2017-05-29 03:34:01 UTC
mkint wrote:
Kassimila wrote:
Sonya Corvinus wrote:
Kassimila wrote:
My only motive sir, is to have lag free 500 person fleet fights. I believe booting afk players is a good step towards that goal. I can't see how people not playing the game are adding any benefit to it. Can you?


where to start...

first, you actually enjoy 500 person fleet fights? Pressing F1 when an FC says so for hours and nothing else? That's fun somehow? oh honey....just save some time and watch a youtube video instead. It's just as challenging and just as easy to do.

second, AFK people in those systems don't add anything to lag.

third, obviously, and the real issue here, you want to PvE easier in null. someone AFK can't hurt you given they are...afk


When they are lag free, they are a blast actually. If all you're doing in a fleet fight is pressing F1, you have much to learn. I'm not referring to 'afk people in the system', I'm referring to afk players on the cluster as a whole. They harm cluster performance, maybe not a ton, but they do.

To your third point, how exactly does removing afk players from the game make PvE easier?

Except you have it coming from multiple people that no, afkers in jita have precisely zero effect on fleet fights, especially fights on dedicated nodes. Some of us have been following every dev blog and dev post for a decade or more, watched or attended every fanfest. Some of us are as informed as can be without being actual employees. There are good reasons why the cluster works the way it does right now. One of those reasons is to fix exactly what you think needs fixing. It's already fixed. It doesn't need to be fixed. It's not a problem. Your "solution" to a problem that doesn't exist is in fact a problem. It's gibberish. Nonsense. It makes as much sense as rubbing a potato on your car to get it to go faster. It can only cause damage. Such a stupid "solution" can only have malicious ulterior motives. There's no other explanation.

All that said, I would be interested in a dev blog with a lag update, and a roadmap. Are they even working on anything new since BIAB? It seems like CCP used to be more open about personnel allocation, but the past year or two seem like there's only like 5 guys working on the entire game.


If anything the reverse is often true. You get TIDI and it spreads to nearby systems.

"The curious task of economics is to demonstrate to men how little they really know about what they imagine they can design."--Friedrich August von Hayek

8 Golden Rules for EVE Online
Kassimila
Deep Core Mining Inc.
Caldari State
#50 - 2017-05-29 03:39:13 UTC
Teckos Pech wrote:


Northern Coalition scum....

Again, still going to get some false positives. I have two screens. I can be looking at one that is say got my invention spreadsheets and miss that pop up. Similarly if I am selling things on the market. And the benefits are negligible.


So I think you're misusing the term "False positive". If the window pops up, and you do nothing with it, there's nothing false about it. Also when I stated 'bring it into focus' that means it would jump on top of your spreadsheet/netflix/whatever you're doing. It would be impossible to miss unless you were in fact not looking at the screen at all.
Kassimila
Deep Core Mining Inc.
Caldari State
#51 - 2017-05-29 03:41:37 UTC
Teckos Pech wrote:
mkint wrote:
Kassimila wrote:
Sonya Corvinus wrote:
Kassimila wrote:
My only motive sir, is to have lag free 500 person fleet fights. I believe booting afk players is a good step towards that goal. I can't see how people not playing the game are adding any benefit to it. Can you?


where to start...

first, you actually enjoy 500 person fleet fights? Pressing F1 when an FC says so for hours and nothing else? That's fun somehow? oh honey....just save some time and watch a youtube video instead. It's just as challenging and just as easy to do.

second, AFK people in those systems don't add anything to lag.

third, obviously, and the real issue here, you want to PvE easier in null. someone AFK can't hurt you given they are...afk


When they are lag free, they are a blast actually. If all you're doing in a fleet fight is pressing F1, you have much to learn. I'm not referring to 'afk people in the system', I'm referring to afk players on the cluster as a whole. They harm cluster performance, maybe not a ton, but they do.

To your third point, how exactly does removing afk players from the game make PvE easier?

Except you have it coming from multiple people that no, afkers in jita have precisely zero effect on fleet fights, especially fights on dedicated nodes. Some of us have been following every dev blog and dev post for a decade or more, watched or attended every fanfest. Some of us are as informed as can be without being actual employees. There are good reasons why the cluster works the way it does right now. One of those reasons is to fix exactly what you think needs fixing. It's already fixed. It doesn't need to be fixed. It's not a problem. Your "solution" to a problem that doesn't exist is in fact a problem. It's gibberish. Nonsense. It makes as much sense as rubbing a potato on your car to get it to go faster. It can only cause damage. Such a stupid "solution" can only have malicious ulterior motives. There's no other explanation.

All that said, I would be interested in a dev blog with a lag update, and a roadmap. Are they even working on anything new since BIAB? It seems like CCP used to be more open about personnel allocation, but the past year or two seem like there's only like 5 guys working on the entire game.


If anything the reverse is often true. You get TIDI and it spreads to nearby systems.


Yeah I love these people telling me how the cluster works, when I'm getting TIDI 5 jumps out from a reinforced node for a scheduled fight. Sure though, has no impact on the rest of the cluster. Maybe start off by booting AFKs for a week, and see what impact it has on gameplay from both sides, then go from there?
Kassimila
Deep Core Mining Inc.
Caldari State
#52 - 2017-05-29 03:47:09 UTC
Sonya Corvinus wrote:
Kassimila wrote:
When they are lag free, they are a blast actually. If all you're doing in a fleet fight is pressing F1, you have much to learn. I'm not referring to 'afk people in the system', I'm referring to afk players on the cluster as a whole. They harm cluster performance, maybe not a ton, but they do.

To your third point, how exactly does removing afk players from the game make PvE easier?


I've been in nearly every multi--thousand player battle that's happened since 2012, and they were all mind-numbingly boring. If you want to deal with lag, talk to the people who join them not to fight, but just to get that one shot off to get on the killmail.

You live in null, right? You realize people refuse to PvE when there are neuts or reds in system, right? Removing AFK players gives null PvE-ers 100% safety.


Ahh yes, you've been to 'every' major battle, yet have no idea how NC works or where we currently are. Sure :)

Also let me quote you
Sonya Corvinus wrote:

third, obviously, and the real issue here, you want to PvE easier in null. someone AFK can't hurt you given they are...afk


AFK people can't hurt me, so why would removing them make me safer? Thousands of ships are lost in Null sec on a daily basis, having nothing to do with afk people, so I fail to see how removing them would make null sec pve 100% safe. Nothing in eve is 100% safe.
Marika Sunji
Perkone
Caldari State
#53 - 2017-05-29 05:23:21 UTC
Kassimila wrote:
Teckos Pech wrote:


Northern Coalition scum....

Again, still going to get some false positives. I have two screens. I can be looking at one that is say got my invention spreadsheets and miss that pop up. Similarly if I am selling things on the market. And the benefits are negligible.


So I think you're misusing the term "False positive". If the window pops up, and you do nothing with it, there's nothing false about it. Also when I stated 'bring it into focus' that means it would jump on top of your spreadsheet/netflix/whatever you're doing. It would be impossible to miss unless you were in fact not looking at the screen at all.

For the love of anything, no. Focus-grabbing apps are horrible and I uninstall every single one I come across for the simple reason that I am the user and I get to decide what I'm going to look at at a given moment, not some game developer. Also, imagine having 20 accounts logged in and having to do some other work on your computer when poof 20 staggered focus grabs. This is a ridiculously terrible idea.
Teckos Pech
Hogyoku
Goonswarm Federation
#54 - 2017-05-29 05:49:21 UTC
Kassimila wrote:
Teckos Pech wrote:


Northern Coalition scum....

Again, still going to get some false positives. I have two screens. I can be looking at one that is say got my invention spreadsheets and miss that pop up. Similarly if I am selling things on the market. And the benefits are negligible.


So I think you're misusing the term "False positive". If the window pops up, and you do nothing with it, there's nothing false about it. Also when I stated 'bring it into focus' that means it would jump on top of your spreadsheet/netflix/whatever you're doing. It would be impossible to miss unless you were in fact not looking at the screen at all.


No, the player is ATK, but not looking at the client screen, they maybe doing something else, even something EVE related as in my examples. Working on a reaction set up. Playing around with Pyfa. Talking on some sort of voice comms about things in game...then these players turn to client to get some information from the client and, "****, the stupid thing logged me out. CCP." And for what a gain that is essentially un-noticable to that 500 man battle because TIDI is still at 15%.

"The curious task of economics is to demonstrate to men how little they really know about what they imagine they can design."--Friedrich August von Hayek

8 Golden Rules for EVE Online
Teckos Pech
Hogyoku
Goonswarm Federation
#55 - 2017-05-29 05:50:25 UTC
Kassimila wrote:


Yeah I love these people telling me how the cluster works, when I'm getting TIDI 5 jumps out from a reinforced node for a scheduled fight. Sure though, has no impact on the rest of the cluster. Maybe start off by booting AFKs for a week, and see what impact it has on gameplay from both sides, then go from there?


Which will do nothing as it is the system with the big battle that is the problem. That is what everyone is saying.

"The curious task of economics is to demonstrate to men how little they really know about what they imagine they can design."--Friedrich August von Hayek

8 Golden Rules for EVE Online
JC Mieyli
Hedion University
Amarr Empire
#56 - 2017-05-29 06:49:08 UTC
Kassimila wrote:
it would jump on top of your spreadsheet/netflix/whatever you're doing. It would be impossible to miss unless you were in fact not looking at the screen at all.

oh god no no no no no no no no no
Tessa Sage
Long Pig Luncheon Meat
Sending Thots And Players
#57 - 2017-05-29 10:22:07 UTC
Danika Princip wrote:
1% is a completely meaningless increase, especially when you're already in 10% tidi if not worse. ...

EDit: That's a tweet from 2014. They're on new servers now.


Danika for every trinket in game that improves X, Y or Jove Space by 1% you see people shelling out millions and millions of ISK if not PLEX'ing for the dang thing.

OP is arguing for something far more valuable than game credits: relevant logged in statistics and improved playability for the non-AFK crowd. If you have to be active in game to disrupt an auto-kick every 30 minutes, it improves everything, and I mean everything, about EVE. Suddenly there is reason to interact with the game beyond the mere sporadic: jump to the next gate, dock at a citadel, or participate in a chat channel.

I'm certain you've seen many content platforms that take a commercial break every half hour to subsidize said material for indefinite free-to-play purposes. Having ONLY active toons albeit enforced at a relaxed 30 minute chalk marking of the tires, the server sings. That is money back in CCP's wallet.
Danika Princip
GoonWaffe
Goonswarm Federation
#58 - 2017-05-29 10:34:26 UTC
Tessa Sage wrote:


I'm certain you've seen many content platforms that take a commercial break every half hour to subsidize said material for indefinite free-to-play purposes. Having ONLY active toons albeit enforced at a relaxed 30 minute chalk marking of the tires, the server sings. That is money back in CCP's wallet.



Except for all the blops droppers, cyno alts, market guys, industry people, miners, missioners, ratters, haulers etc etc etc who unsub because they can't play they way they always have anymore, you mean?


You will not get a meaningful increase in server performance from this. The difference between 10 and 11% tidi is not one you will notice. All you will do is **** off an enormous pile of people with a thinly veiled 'remove afk cloaking' suggestion.
Sonya Corvinus
Grant Village
#59 - 2017-05-29 15:56:28 UTC  |  Edited by: Sonya Corvinus
Kassimila wrote:
Sonya Corvinus wrote:
Kassimila wrote:
When they are lag free, they are a blast actually. If all you're doing in a fleet fight is pressing F1, you have much to learn. I'm not referring to 'afk people in the system', I'm referring to afk players on the cluster as a whole. They harm cluster performance, maybe not a ton, but they do.

To your third point, how exactly does removing afk players from the game make PvE easier?


I've been in nearly every multi--thousand player battle that's happened since 2012, and they were all mind-numbingly boring. If you want to deal with lag, talk to the people who join them not to fight, but just to get that one shot off to get on the killmail.

You live in null, right? You realize people refuse to PvE when there are neuts or reds in system, right? Removing AFK players gives null PvE-ers 100% safety.


Ahh yes, you've been to 'every' major battle, yet have no idea how NC works or where we currently are. Sure :)

Also let me quote you
Sonya Corvinus wrote:

third, obviously, and the real issue here, you want to PvE easier in null. someone AFK can't hurt you given they are...afk


AFK people can't hurt me, so why would removing them make me safer? Thousands of ships are lost in Null sec on a daily basis, having nothing to do with afk people, so I fail to see how removing them would make null sec pve 100% safe. Nothing in eve is 100% safe.


I cringe when I read what you say, TBH. I've been in NC, I wasn't all that impressed.

You seem completely clueless on how nullsec life works in EVE. I wouldn't expect any less from an F1 carebear.

It's interesting that you seem to think you understand how CCP's servers work, when you've never worked there. How arrogant can you be?
Daichi Yamato
Jabbersnarks and Wonderglass
#60 - 2017-05-29 16:42:34 UTC
Who would try to screw over everyone elses game to create their nullbear sanctuary, and just make **** up to push their agenda?

Definitely dracvlad...

EVE FAQ "7.2 CAN I AVOID PVP COMPLETELY? No; there are no systems or locations in New Eden where PvP may be completely avoided"

Daichi Yamato's version of structure based decs