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Warfare & Tactics

 
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What exactly do I do? (being wardecced)

Author
Natocha Daisy
Stellar Masons
KnockOut.
#21 - 2017-05-29 17:17:25 UTC
Anna Wong wrote:
Natocha Daisy wrote:
I'm interested in knowing why the game is packaged and publicized in a way that seems to appeal to carebears / players with no interest in or knowledge of the warfare/pvp content in Eve, and who end up making/joining corporations only to be hurt.

I don't see the point in playing an MMO if I don't join a corporation. A corporation should be about being part of a community that you choose how to direct: this does not necessarily mean war


Almost every promotional video I've ever seen of EvE-Online that's been promoted or made by CCP features space battles.

Everything you make in EvE-Online is, ultimately, to make war.

EvE is also about interacting with others. Corporations are a great way to do that, and it gives you something to rally around and be proud of.

If all you want to do is click a button every 10 minutes and make virtual currency, I'm afraid to say EvE is not for you.

It's not CCP's fault for failing to notice 90% of the promotional material for the game you are playing, and while just about everyone agrees the war dec mechanics right now are horrible and need to be re-written pretty much from scratch, they are not going to change EvE to be risk free, and War/PvP is just another form of social interaction.


Like all other posts you have failed to help me with my problem.

Thank you.
GsyBoy
Doomheim
#22 - 2017-05-30 08:58:40 UTC
Keno Skir wrote:
Natocha Daisy wrote:
I also thought that having my own corporation would be fun for the social content. And it was excellent over the last several weeks and I made a few friends. But now things are very dire.


That's your mistake right there Big smile

Corporations in EvE aren't like guilds in other MMO. A corporation is a group of people who decide they can now defend themselves and don't need the protection of the NPC corp anymore. You get to choose your own tax rate, but in exchange you are open to attack by other player groups. You see EvE allows like minded folks to group up via private chat channels so you really don't need to have a corporation just to fly together and talk.

If you want assets in space like your own station however, you must create a corp. Before you do this you should be absolutely certain that you are ready to stand on your own two feet and defend what's yours against others who might want to kick over your sandcastle. The NPC corps have no wars, which is a trade off for slightly higher taxes.

Please try to understand that player corps in EvE are not a right, they are a privilege that must be paid for in effort. A shared chat channel accomplishes most things a corp does, so try that.


Best response i have ever read in this forum, changed my opinion of war decs competely

https://www.twitch.tv/gsyboy

Kalihira
Ultramar Independent Contracting
#23 - 2017-05-31 18:53:28 UTC
Natocha Daisy wrote:
Well this conversation has been unhelpful.

Guess I'll just move along to the next game.


You haven't even started this one...
Wanda Fayne
#24 - 2017-06-02 21:58:00 UTC  |  Edited by: Wanda Fayne
...

"your comments just confirms this whole idea is totally pathetic" -Lan Wang-

  • - "hub humping station gamey neutral logi warspam wankery" -Ralph King-Griffin-
Wanda Fayne
#25 - 2017-06-02 22:22:14 UTC
Hmmm.

research shows you were accused as a thief. True or false it explains the wardecs...

"your comments just confirms this whole idea is totally pathetic" -Lan Wang-

  • - "hub humping station gamey neutral logi warspam wankery" -Ralph King-Griffin-
Aaaarrgg
The Conference Elite
CODE.
#26 - 2017-06-03 19:23:31 UTC
Natocha Daisy wrote:
A lot of these responses provide alternative 'means' to avoid being wardecced.

I'm not interested in avoiding game mechanics. I'm interested in knowing why the game is packaged and publicized in a way that seems to appeal to carebears / players with no interest in or knowledge of the warfare/pvp content in Eve, and who end up making/joining corporations only to be hurt.

I don't see the point in playing an MMO if I don't join a corporation. A corporation should be about being part of a community that you choose how to direct: this does not necessarily mean war.

This game should be advertized as a war simulator, not a freelancing machine.

My corp has lost about 30 members so far since the wardeccs started, and currently we have 5 going.

And what exactly am I supposed to do?

I want an answer from the game developers.



you have 5 war decs ... that's unusual, tell us the true story :)
Sir Smokalot
Volldag
#27 - 2017-06-03 20:11:04 UTC
Henry Tesero wrote:

How could someone interested in playing Eve not have knowledge about the warfare/pvp aspect of eve, it's the only thing that most "casuals" ever read about this game.



Well, to be fair, from the EVE website:

what is eve online

Player-created empires, player-driven markets, and endless ways to embark on your personal sci-fi adventure. Conspire with thousands of others to bring the galaxy to its knees, or go it alone and carve your own niche in the massive EVE universe. Harvest, mine, manufacture or play the market. Travel whatever path you choose in the ultimate universe of boundless opportunity. The choice is yours in EVE Online.

End quote.

To me, that says nothing about being harrassed for being a carebear, that is partaking in harvesting, mining, manufacturing or playing the market. Nothing at all. It certainly doesn't include "Kill other players who are just trying to do their own thing". Yes it does say "Bringing the galaxy to its knees". Does that cover ganking or wardeccing peaceful corporations?

I am not against the violent aspects of EVE, even though I am more of a carebear myself, but I can see how someone might get the wrong idea. Creating your own corp is encouraged and sounds interesting, but I don't realy see any mention in the marketing material about being prepared to have your toys taken away by bullies.

(As a side note, The HitchHiker's Guide To The Galaxy was originally a radioplay)
KenFlorian
Knight Odds
Curatores Veritatis Alliance
#28 - 2017-06-04 00:53:40 UTC
Aaaarrgg wrote:


you have 5 war decs ... that's unusual, tell us the true story :)


Merely speculation, mind you...

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=oALKAh_bL5g
Omar Alharazaad
An Interesting Corp
Spectrum Alliance
#29 - 2017-06-06 06:28:44 UTC
Well, to be honest, CCP isn't going to leap to your defense here.
They like it the way it is.

That said, in the face of war you can either duck and cover or adapt to survive it.
This site has a great deal of info for how to do that.
http://evedarklord.blogspot.ca/2015/01/surviving-wardecs.html?view=sidebar

Some good stuff there, recommend giving it a read.

Come hell or high water, this sick world will know I was here.

Mark Remillard
The Mental Man Project
#30 - 2017-06-06 16:55:46 UTC  |  Edited by: Mark Remillard
Natocha Daisy wrote:
A lot of these responses provide alternative 'means' to avoid being wardecced.

I'm not interested in avoiding game mechanics. I'm interested in knowing why the game is packaged and publicized in a way that seems to appeal to carebears / players with no interest in or knowledge of the warfare/pvp content in Eve.......



I am curious as to what "packaging and publiciation" you are referring to.

Every trailer I have seen is either exclusively focused on PVP or ends with whatever the person built (recent trailers focus on citadels) coming under attack by other players. Arguably, the game designers prefer maximizing inter-player conflict. The majority of MMO's out there are focused on catering primarily to the non-pvp playerbase, EVE is NOT one of those.
Mark Remillard
The Mental Man Project
#31 - 2017-06-06 19:34:49 UTC  |  Edited by: Mark Remillard
Natocha Daisy wrote:


Like all other posts you have failed to help me with my problem.

Thank you.


Fixing your problem would require changing something about what you are doing (and you would still not being able to completely avoid PVP).

Eve Univeristy's War DEC FAQ:
https://wiki.eveuniversity.org/War_declarations

"Costs of wardecs
Wardec costs at least 50 million isk for a corporation to declare war on another corporation or alliance. The war declaration fee must be in the Master Wallet of the corp wallet.
The formula for calculating wardec cost is (log2.05831 N)^2 * 300000 * N^0.27, where N is the number of members in the target corp/alliance. The cost is now the same when declaring on a corporation or an alliance. (1) The cost increase is in effect with numbers between 51 and 2000, where, for the latter, it reaches an upper limit of 500 million ISK. (2)"


Here is what is causing you to be targeted:

1) Ships Used: Mining Ships (easy prey unable to defend themselves)
2) Corp Name: Mariposa Mining Association (Identifys your corp as miners)
3) Income Stream: Mining (Lowest possible in Highsec)
4) Fleet/Corp location: High-sec (high traffic and visibility)
5) Corporation Size: Small Player owned (see eve uni quote above)

Reducing the problem (you will never eliminate it) requires changing at least one of the above.
1) *Bring some corp members in combat ships into your mining fleets (see below), always keep your ships cheap.
2) Remove mining from your corp name
3) Move out of High Sec to find more profitable ores (bring your alpha clone piloted ventures into wormholes or null sec)
4) Choose "dead" areas of high sec, the War Deccer's cannot find you (GTFO from anywhere near Jita)
5) If you want to keep a player corp, get a massive recruitment spreee going (or maybee just get everyone into EVE university?)


*High sec mining is poor income. If you are doing because you like the social activity and the ease of entry, have some fcorp members hang out with you in destroyers and frigates. When the enemy shows up, your miners will flee while your combat escorts try to cover them. With low number and cheap ships, your defenders will not win the fight but they will be a distraction and get the excitement of a "last stand" moment to talk about. Take this entire group to somewhere other than high sec and the escorts can make decent income from killing NPC'S.
Kiro Shinijami
Jebediah Kerman's Junkyard and Spaceship Parts Co.
Simple Farmers
#32 - 2017-06-06 23:32:17 UTC
Fight back?
Ragnar Danskjold
Imperial Academy
Amarr Empire
#33 - 2017-06-08 06:46:38 UTC
Natocha Daisy wrote:
Well this conversation has been unhelpful.

Guess I'll just move along to the next game.

These responses provided plenty of good info, you just don't like the answer. This game is 99% PvP, even ratters, mission runners, and miners are all actually competing with each other because most of market goods are produced and consumed by players. This is why no matter where you go in the game there is potential for other people to disrupt your activities. This is what the code is truly about, and exactly what the devs intended. If that isn't to your liking then you probably ought to find another game. EVE was here before you, and will be here after you.
SupaL33tH4x0r Regime
Minmatar Gallente VOID
#34 - 2017-06-08 08:11:17 UTC
And this is still going.

They aren't near jita, mostly focused in Minmatar not near the markets, with a few members in bfe caldari, gallente, and amarr borders.

the corp wasn't small it had over 140 members at the peak as all the war decs started.

only had a few decs because of *open corp finder, select mining, sees list of mining corps* and also *open people and places, input mining for name, search* oh hey theres miners we have dec'd before. Minus 1 group coming in to take the area over and bringing 2 more groups when talks were declined by mining ceo.

They did fight, initially killed a guy and his 3 alts, than curbstomped in a 22 miners vs 6, even with miners reshipping as soon as destroyed feeding the 6 something like 30+ kills. Refer to Alpha Killboards.

Miner alt brings guys from mains pvp corp, gets stomped.

had the Amish Mafia for help, mercs don't fight due to over 40 vs 6 and rat lives, mining corp continues to die individually.

Mining corp still has spy inside and had complete shift of leadership style, leaving majority of all active members either leaving due to leadership style change of extremely strict, cant undock with out dying, or kicked trying to catch the spy.

Now moved to null once again after leaving it before because of instant deaths from players and rats and cant be messed with going to meetings.

Master Raydon
Brand Newbros
Test Alliance Please Ignore
#35 - 2017-06-08 12:08:44 UTC  |  Edited by: Master Raydon
Hello Daisy,

As I told you before, high sec for a big indy corp isn't easy.
You need a strong backbone and need to have enough capable pvp pilots that would defend you when you get into a war.

I am a bit sad you didnt contact us when your citadel was getting hit as I would accept you back in the alliance and we would defend it easily. Friends are friends no matter what.

You have 3 options that will help your corp to survive:
1. Join a null sec/wormhole alliance.
2. Move to another region each time you get hit by a war.
3. Train a pvp wing and get all other indy guys in pvp capable ships.

Each of these options are time and isk consuming and more importantly, a big gameplay change to your members.

Longterm I would say joining an alliance is the best option.
Once you get setuped you are basically able to do your thing and you will always have help close.

In any case, fly safe mate and hit me up if you need a hand.
o7
Tobias Klinge
Mariposa Mining Association
#36 - 2017-06-11 12:26:16 UTC
Kalihira wrote:
Natocha Daisy wrote:
Well this conversation has been unhelpful.

Guess I'll just move along to the next game.


You haven't even started this one...



What's your point?
Natocha Daisy
Stellar Masons
KnockOut.
#37 - 2017-06-11 12:28:03 UTC
Wanda Fayne wrote:
Hmmm.

research shows you were accused as a thief. True or false it explains the wardecs...


Research shows you are a troll.
Natocha Daisy
Stellar Masons
KnockOut.
#38 - 2017-06-11 12:30:18 UTC
Mark Remillard wrote:
Natocha Daisy wrote:


Like all other posts you have failed to help me with my problem.

Thank you.


Fixing your problem would require changing something about what you are doing (and you would still not being able to completely avoid PVP).

Eve Univeristy's War DEC FAQ:
https://wiki.eveuniversity.org/War_declarations

"Costs of wardecs
Wardec costs at least 50 million isk for a corporation to declare war on another corporation or alliance. The war declaration fee must be in the Master Wallet of the corp wallet.
The formula for calculating wardec cost is (log2.05831 N)^2 * 300000 * N^0.27, where N is the number of members in the target corp/alliance. The cost is now the same when declaring on a corporation or an alliance. (1) The cost increase is in effect with numbers between 51 and 2000, where, for the latter, it reaches an upper limit of 500 million ISK. (2)"


Here is what is causing you to be targeted:

1) Ships Used: Mining Ships (easy prey unable to defend themselves)
2) Corp Name: Mariposa Mining Association (Identifys your corp as miners)
3) Income Stream: Mining (Lowest possible in Highsec)
4) Fleet/Corp location: High-sec (high traffic and visibility)
5) Corporation Size: Small Player owned (see eve uni quote above)

Reducing the problem (you will never eliminate it) requires changing at least one of the above.
1) *Bring some corp members in combat ships into your mining fleets (see below), always keep your ships cheap.
2) Remove mining from your corp name
3) Move out of High Sec to find more profitable ores (bring your alpha clone piloted ventures into wormholes or null sec)
4) Choose "dead" areas of high sec, the War Deccer's cannot find you (GTFO from anywhere near Jita)
5) If you want to keep a player corp, get a massive recruitment spreee going (or maybee just get everyone into EVE university?)


*High sec mining is poor income. If you are doing because you like the social activity and the ease of entry, have some fcorp members hang out with you in destroyers and frigates. When the enemy shows up, your miners will flee while your combat escorts try to cover them. With low number and cheap ships, your defenders will not win the fight but they will be a distraction and get the excitement of a "last stand" moment to talk about. Take this entire group to somewhere other than high sec and the escorts can make decent income from killing NPC'S.


I'll restate something I have already said:

Probably unintended - but you really haven't helped the issue. The problem is that ccp allow others to 'pressure' corporations at their own will by allowing war declarations week after week.
Natocha Daisy
Stellar Masons
KnockOut.
#39 - 2017-06-11 12:31:21 UTC
Master Raydon wrote:
Hello Daisy,

As I told you before, high sec for a big indy corp isn't easy.
You need a strong backbone and need to have enough capable pvp pilots that would defend you when you get into a war.

I am a bit sad you didnt contact us when your citadel was getting hit as I would accept you back in the alliance and we would defend it easily. Friends are friends no matter what.

You have 3 options that will help your corp to survive:
1. Join a null sec/wormhole alliance.
2. Move to another region each time you get hit by a war.
3. Train a pvp wing and get all other indy guys in pvp capable ships.

Each of these options are time and isk consuming and more importantly, a big gameplay change to your members.

Longterm I would say joining an alliance is the best option.
Once you get setuped you are basically able to do your thing and you will always have help close.

In any case, fly safe mate and hit me up if you need a hand.
o7


Thanks Ray.
Natocha Daisy
Stellar Masons
KnockOut.
#40 - 2017-06-11 12:33:56 UTC
SupaL33tH4x0r Regime wrote:
And this is still going.

They aren't near jita, mostly focused in Minmatar not near the markets, with a few members in bfe caldari, gallente, and amarr borders.

the corp wasn't small it had over 140 members at the peak as all the war decs started.

only had a few decs because of *open corp finder, select mining, sees list of mining corps* and also *open people and places, input mining for name, search* oh hey theres miners we have dec'd before. Minus 1 group coming in to take the area over and bringing 2 more groups when talks were declined by mining ceo.

They did fight, initially killed a guy and his 3 alts, than curbstomped in a 22 miners vs 6, even with miners reshipping as soon as destroyed feeding the 6 something like 30+ kills. Refer to Alpha Killboards.

Miner alt brings guys from mains pvp corp, gets stomped.

had the Amish Mafia for help, mercs don't fight due to over 40 vs 6 and rat lives, mining corp continues to die individually.

Mining corp still has spy inside and had complete shift of leadership style, leaving majority of all active members either leaving due to leadership style change of extremely strict, cant undock with out dying, or kicked trying to catch the spy.

Now moved to null once again after leaving it before because of instant deaths from players and rats and cant be messed with going to meetings.



LOL. Are you my in-game biographer? That's actually quite true :)