EVE General Discussion

Redfrog might even have a dedicated player checking general access to citadels, they will check the issuers history, you can't do an individual lock out because they recontract to their haulers, (ie locking out your contracting party is pointless), and if they start losing money on it, they'll just stop taking contracts to citadels from people with no history of issuing completed hauling contracts, or they'll contact you and offer you no-collateral hauling only, which they can because they are redfrog and people trust them.

But good luck with your endeavour.

There is that word again..."trust"...funny how it keeps coming up again and again. In this thread and others.

Citadel owners that want to have courier contracts have to build a reputation of trust. Yes that is costly and for good reason. If were not, then it could not be built--i.e. courier contracts to citadels could not emerge from the in game economy. Imposing them from the top down deprives the players of trying to bring that kind of thing about. Did CCP plan this? Who cares. With emergent systems that is the whole point, you get things popping up one did not expect.

Nah, there are citadel contract issuers out there with 10 contracts on the market, none of which have wipeout scale collaterals, you amortize the 30 seconds of reading their contracting history over the 10 contracts, and you accept/fly them one at a time mixed with other contracts going the same way.

Those issuers do things the way they do to make them attractive hauls, which gets them done quick, which saves them opportunity cost tied up in waiting contracts.

If you don't want to do them, that is fine, all that does is help the people who do the research make more money.

Wrong example Salvos, not wrong factually.

The trusted list is a valuable thing in itself, and probably worth effort for legitimate citadel owners to get onto, and contracts to those citadels might comprise a large proportion of the non scam citadel destination contracts.

That is exactly the gameplay that CCP wants from citadels. its trust gameplay.

This thread makes me chuckle. If some of the people posting in this thread put half the effort they have posting here into researching a contract BEFORE accpeting it we wouldn't be having a problem.

Eve is filled with scams, it's up to you to not fall for them.

As i said earlier Be thankful it's not low or null in which case insult would be added to injury by destroying your ship with it's insured cargo, then your pod, then a good laugh by the contract holder getting immediate payout (not having to wait the full duration of the contract) plus whatever loot he gets off your wreck.

NO place is safe in Eve from being scammed, killed or somehow getting yourself shafteed.

I have two things to say

1) Sorry OP, but I think Citadel owner should have the right/power to deny anyone's access to their structure at any time they please, and this should include denying delivery to their structure for whatever the reason they see fit

i dunno man, like someone's docked in their citadel and the owner don't want him to get resupplies? or the citadel owner with the market want to lock out a particular trader? maybe they want to cut supplies to a particular producer to drive them out?

Many possible scenarios, but the ownership and the ability to control access your structure is a very serious and important issue. You could put yourself in the structure owner's shoes and claim any ways to circumvent your denial to access is an abuse too. ;)

2) Players make rules/norms/whatever.

BS. Total BS.

Someone pointed it out correctly before, but only got half right. CCP makes EULA and TOS, and players make whatever else you call it like rules/norms/etc. But guess what, CCP can change their EULA/TOS at any given time as they please and ban anyone from the game as they see fit and make any activity a bannable offence if they choose to do so. So erm yeah, whatever you build in sandbox is just that, made out of sand and will collapse when the sandbox owner decides to shake it a bit.

Whatever 'player content' you create can be later ruled out by CCP, and if they feel it is fitting for them to do so, they can wipe your assets and wallets, even those accumulated during the time where the game mechanics made it possible to do so.

CCP owns everything in game and they owe you nothing (maybe except the access to server, which is what you pay for really)

You can do many things in EVE, and it's one of the best sandbox games I've ever experienced in any platform. But if you (the playeer) are a king, CCP is like God. You can rule in any way you want, but God can change everything for you on a whim and don't owe you an apology.


* I'm not saying this to say CCP is bad/whatever, pretty much all games are ran like this and CCP is not the only bad one here. But I think EVE players have that extra layer of illusion that this game is any different.

While I don't entirely disagree that the citadel-courier situation is a little silly, the hyperbolic whinging about the supposed importance of the problem is moronic.

It doesn't make the system defunct. This is plainly obvious, as the system is used, daily and to great effect, by many people. It's an unequivocally nonsensical statement, with no purpose beyond wasting everyone's time.

IIRC, there was a proposal a while back to allow for a citadel "mailbox" that would take courier deliveries from outside, sans docking rights. Seemed an inoffensive enough idea. Maybe they'll actually get around to implementing it at some point, but even if they never addressed this at all, courier contracts will continue to be a thing, and you'll just have to do a better job of managing your risk.

Really? Your posts smells of that of a HS carebear (and I don't mean just somebody living in HS).



You shouldn't read too far between the lines. The point of my comment was for people who are so risk averse to use NPC stations, those who are willing to take risks can use citadels. These decisions are based on individual risk preferences which...as the word "individual" should indicate vary by individual.

I saw this late so only commenting now this really is true. I have someone in my corp who does all the courier contract setup work. He gets loads of courier contracts fulfilled, like as in hundreds per month. When the corp look at the contract history we see a lot of names turn up again and again. We been doing this before citadels but now we get stuff moved to citadel too, and do not have issues getting our contracts fulfilled.

Of course, if it is a citadel not belonging to us, we cant stop rhe citadel owner from messing about. But I believe these guys who run our contracts regularly know that our couriers are legit and we do not set up access denial scams deliberately. It has to work in two ways. The destination citadel owner needs to be 'trustable' to allow access to non hostiles, and the contract issuer is a regular customer who would rather see his stuff arrive in destination than have the delivery fail for quick collateral isk.

In the grander scheme of things, scamming with courier contracts is not beneficial for us. We want to keep pir market segment well seeded in the target destination, and stuff arrive reliably for production. I think when this understanding and working relationships are reached between players, it does make it a very nice game play experience which feels rewarding.

What, what, WAT!!?!?!?!? That is impossible, so many in this thread have said so!!!

Clearly you are mistaken or even worse lying! [/sarcasm]