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The degraded and forgotten ships.
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Lugh Crow-Slave
#21 - 2017-05-19 07:46:04 UTC
... faction is indeed t1

BLOPS Hauler
The 16.8km Bubble
Dior Ambraelle
University of Caille
Gallente Federation
#22 - 2017-05-19 09:47:48 UTC
Nevyn Auscent wrote:
Given I can't think of a fit that actually uses oversize guns, and only a few that use under-size gins, my preference would be to make gun slots size locked, and do something like give BS their current number of large guns, 4 medium guns & 2 small guns. Then make tracking small ships even harder for medium & large guns (Before this accuracy BS I'd have done it by just giving them a target sig radius/gun sig radius chance of hitting even a stationary target, but I'm sure you could do it)
Designating slots as potential utility could also be done to prevent this being 6 extra utility slots, make the only possible use M & S guns or empty. PG probably doesn't need to change at all since it would give additional reasons to use the smaller L gun sizes & RCU's. CPU obviously would need to change.

What about a large HAW? Put 3 small guns together on a single large slot, and limit it to 1 per ship. It should have about the same range, damage and tracking as small mid-range guns, but needs as much PG and CPU as a large short-range gun.
I don't think there is a need for an anti-cruiser version though.

If you want an intelligent argument, please do, I'm up for it!

But if you want a trolling contest, I will win it by simply not participating.
Blade Darth
Room for Improvement
Good Sax
#23 - 2017-05-19 13:30:02 UTC
Lugh Crow-Slave wrote:
... faction is indeed t1
Let's settle on t1.5

Omen Navy Issue Tutorial
Linus Gorp
Ministry of Propaganda and Morale
#24 - 2017-05-19 13:46:55 UTC
Blade Darth wrote:
Lugh Crow-Slave wrote:
... faction is indeed t1
Let's settle on t1.5

That's what we have meta levels for. It's still t1.

When you don't know the difference between there, their, and they're, you come across as being so uneducated that your viewpoint can be safely dismissed. The literate is unlikely to learn much from the illiterate.
Lugh Crow-Slave
#25 - 2017-05-19 13:47:56 UTC  |  Edited by: Lugh Crow-Slave
Blade Darth wrote:
Lugh Crow-Slave wrote:
... faction is indeed t1
Let's settle on t1.5



No i mean categorically and in function they are at tech level one being less tanky and in most cases adaptable and not role specific. They are also rolled into the t1 category in most of not all of the data released by ccp.

BLOPS Hauler
The 16.8km Bubble
Vokan Narkar
Doomheim
#26 - 2017-05-19 14:41:08 UTC
Lugh Crow-Slave wrote:
Matthias Ancaladron wrote:
All t1 battleships need buffs.
No reason a battleship should be outgunned by smaller ship's.
I really like the idea of being able to load small and medium ammo into Bs guns for better tracking.
A battleship should be able to SWAT down little frigates like a flyswatter.



you know you can just put undersized guns onto the BB right? and since they have more slots and more PG/CPU generally do get more DPS than ships bonused to those guns?

BBs are not meant to just be simply better than smaller ships they are a different tool for a different job

what kind of job is that? 8/10 anom (I tried the drone one) still faster in VNI, 5/10 DED is pain in the ass to make in t1 BS

no wonder everyone is doing combat sites in Ishtar/t3 instead, they do not have a problem to run away or even fight back, t1 BS can't fight back t2 cruiser and is extremely slow so you are not going to fly with it to do escalation 3+ jumps away.

The only thing they are good for are l4 missions in high-sec and PvP especialy against structures.
Rhaegon Aesir
The Scope
Gallente Federation
#27 - 2017-05-19 16:58:35 UTC  |  Edited by: Rhaegon Aesir
Vokan Narkar wrote:
The only thing they are good for are l4 missions in high-sec and PvP especialy against structures.


I'm sorry, but this is simply just not true, many T1 battleships are very useful for various purposes. The Dominix is a great pvp ship due to its drone tracking bonus, and RR domis work great for wormhole PVE. The Hyperion is another great PVP battleship due to its local rep bonuses. Both the Armageddon and the Scorpion are formidable EWAR platforms as well, with huge neuting and ECM capability. The Rokh is one of the best smartbombing platforms, and even functions surprisingly well with small lasers +3 XLASB. The Megathron and Raven are widely used by wormholers as rolling ships to open and close wormhole connections, though I personally prefer the Armageddon for this task. Etc. Etc. Etc.

Just because YOU don't find a particular ship useful for what you like to do, doesn't mean that that ship is useless. Many other people in eve use T1 battleships in various roles all the time.
AZNomads
Empire Of Malice Reborn
#28 - 2017-05-19 17:40:25 UTC
I just want caldari t1 battleships and the like for all factions to be tankable again. And i dont mean in a general " can fit the module " way. My rokh used to hot 350k with 96% res across the board without the use of captain mods just t2 now even with captains modules and my skills all to V for that specific ship " caldari rokh mastery V " i cant break 290k and resists of more than 92% on it at best which having to spend the total cost for captains mods is enough but even with those captains mods and resistances in the 90% area a cookie cutter frigate can break its tank. How is that possible with both the size of the ship its class and the mastery train times being 230 days for the frig and upwards of 1100 days for the battleships. All the time is wasted cause of the ccp not watching how much of a difference each patch makes between ship classes. From 2008 the battleships class unless t2 cloaky has been nothing but an oversized shiny target for solo gankers in frigs, again my question is how. Irl you wouldnt see a speed boat with a mounted 50 cal doing anything but making noise off the hull of a much larger more armored military grade ship. But in eve a 3 month character can take out a full caldari mastery V pilot in his battleship while only flying a probe. I want this fixed.
Vokan Narkar
Doomheim
#29 - 2017-05-19 18:11:45 UTC
Rhaegon Aesir wrote:
Vokan Narkar wrote:
The only thing they are good for are l4 missions in high-sec and PvP especialy against structures.


I'm sorry, but this is simply just not true, many T1 battleships are very useful for various purposes. The Dominix is a great pvp ship due to its drone tracking bonus, and RR domis work great for wormhole PVE. The Hyperion is another great PVP battleship due to its local rep bonuses. Both the Armageddon and the Scorpion are formidable EWAR platforms as well, with huge neuting and ECM capability. The Rokh is one of the best smartbombing platforms, and even functions surprisingly well with small lasers +3 XLASB. The Megathron and Raven are widely used by wormholers as rolling ships to open and close wormhole connections, though I personally prefer the Armageddon for this task. Etc. Etc. Etc.

Just because YOU don't find a particular ship useful for what you like to do, doesn't mean that that ship is useless. Many other people in eve use T1 battleships in various roles all the time.

so basically you just confirmed my thoughts - they are only usefull in PvP and while its true they can do the tasks you listed, aren't there better ships to do it? T1 BSs seems like a cheap or newbie friendly choice to me, for basically all you listed exists cruisers who do the job better/more efficient

point for bringing wormhole closing, thats probably the purpose they have been created and thus nothing is wrong with their usability
Matthias Ancaladron
Imperial Shipment
Amarr Empire
#30 - 2017-05-19 19:35:30 UTC
Lugh Crow-Slave wrote:
Matthias Ancaladron wrote:
All t1 battleships need buffs.
No reason a battleship should be outgunned by smaller ship's.
I really like the idea of being able to load small and medium ammo into Bs guns for better tracking.
A battleship should be able to SWAT down little frigates like a flyswatter.



you know you can just put undersized guns onto the BB right? and since they have more slots and more PG/CPU generally do get more DPS than ships bonused to those guns?

BBs are not meant to just be simply better than smaller ships they are a different tool for a different job

Uh.
Yeah they are.
Theyre battleships. Theyre supposed to be tougher and more heavily armed than everything smaller than them.
Lugh Crow-Slave
#31 - 2017-05-19 21:48:47 UTC
Matthias Ancaladron wrote:
Lugh Crow-Slave wrote:
Matthias Ancaladron wrote:
All t1 battleships need buffs.
No reason a battleship should be outgunned by smaller ship's.
I really like the idea of being able to load small and medium ammo into Bs guns for better tracking.
A battleship should be able to SWAT down little frigates like a flyswatter.



you know you can just put undersized guns onto the BB right? and since they have more slots and more PG/CPU generally do get more DPS than ships bonused to those guns?

BBs are not meant to just be simply better than smaller ships they are a different tool for a different job

Uh.
Yeah they are.
Theyre battleships. Theyre supposed to be tougher and more heavily armed than everything smaller than them.



Oh you're right and clearly titans souls simply be untouchable and laugh at sub caps.

Inn eve no ship class is a straight up improvement over another each one is simply a different tool that are intended to be balanced around one another. If you want a BB to make use of its larger tank and dps you need to put it in a fleet that supports it that's the trade off

BLOPS Hauler
The 16.8km Bubble
Rawketsled
Generic Corp Name
#32 - 2017-05-20 01:03:55 UTC  |  Edited by: Rawketsled
AZNomads wrote:
I just want Caldari T1 battleships (and the like for all factions) to be tankable again. And I don't mean in a general "can fit the module" way.

My Rokh used to hot 350k, with 96% res across the board, without the use of officer mods (just T2) now even with officer modules, and my skills all to V for that specific ship (Caldari Rokh Mastery V), I can't break 290k and resists of more than 92% on it at best, which having to spend the total cost for officer mods is enough. But even with those officer mods and resistances in the 90% area a cookie cutter frigate can break its tank.

How is that possible with both the size of the ship its class and the mastery train times being 230 days for the frig and upwards of 1100 days for the battleships? All the time is wasted because CCP isn't watching how much of a difference each patch makes between ship classes.

From 2008, the battleships class - unless Black Ops - has been nothing but an oversized shiny target for solo gankers in frigs. Again my question is how? IRL you wouldn't see a speed boat with a mounted 50-cal doing anything but making noise off the hull of a much larger more armored military grade ship. But in Eve, a 3 month character can take out a full Caldari Mastery V pilot in his battleship while only flying a Probe.

I want this fixed.

This is the second time I've done your formatting for you. Even if English isn't your first language, it's clear you have a very strong grasp of it.

Please put the effort into formatting your posts. Maybe then the people on the forum will put the effort into taking you seriously.

I looked at all your killboards. At no point have you lost a Rokh to a solo Probe.

Masteries are meant to be a loose guide. I'll evidence this with CCP's dev blog on the subject.
Quote:
However, remember that certificates and masteries in general are not meant to be specifically tailored for the individual needs of advanced pilots or even professional corporations (that’s where corporation created certificates might come in handy) – they are meant to be a general and basic guideline for all players to look at when progressing throughout ship classes.

You seem to think that Masteries are meaningful. This is where you are mistaken. They never were meaningful. Never something to boast about. Never something that mattered. I'm sorry that you've spent all this time thinking otherwise.
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