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SOPA(Stop Online Piracy Act) and how you can help to stop it
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Obsidian Hawk
RONA Midgard Academy
#41 - 2012-01-10 00:06:21 UTC
why would i pay 10 bucks for a bag of popcorn that only costs 1 dollar to make and when i can sneak in better food to a theatre for a lot less.


Anyway remember kids it has to pass the senate and the house to be made into a law. the president can still veto it, but he is the boy who would be king. The change people voted for was more communism.

Why Can't I have a picture signature.

Also please support graphical immersion, bring back the art that brought people to EvE online originaly.
Sidus Isaacs
Center for Advanced Studies
Gallente Federation
#42 - 2012-01-10 00:54:04 UTC
Jhagiti Tyran wrote:
Sidus Isaacs wrote:
Jhagiti Tyran wrote:
While SOPA is an important thing for everyone to be concerned about it will not destroy the entire internet, it will just screw people in the US.


Wrong. US have already pressured Spain into passing a similar law, and it is not like the rest of the world will not try and follow same suite. US and EU just throw the ball back and forth, due to high US pressure.

It will affect us all, and this needs to die a horrible death before it festers and spawns even more insane infringements on our freedoms and lives. This is just the beginning.


Selective quoting at its finest ITP.

EDIT

Here is the rest of the post you deliberatly left out. "Other nations disappearing behind firewalls never "destroyed the entire internet" and some of those countries just happen to have bigger populations and are more important in the global economy.

SOPA needs fighting, noone can ignore it and just laugh at the Americans because it might give other countries ideas. Still SOPA by itself is not the death of the internet."


Indeed it is not, but it is a start, and need to be stopped before it fester.
VKhaun Vex
Viziam
Amarr Empire
#43 - 2012-01-10 01:08:35 UTC  |  Edited by: VKhaun Vex
Obsidian Hawk wrote:
why would i pay 10 bucks for a bag of popcorn that only costs 1 dollar to make and when i can sneak in better food to a theatre for a lot less.


This kind of thinking is why the laws are showing up.

They have a business where you can watch movies in a theater setting if you pay them and don't bring in food. If you don't like their business the only right thing to do is to NOT go to the theater.

America is so comfortable with the notion of saying '**** them' and taking the service they want (theater setting) while circumventing their business that they actually think it's a FREEDOM. The law has never been on your side, it should not be on your side, it never will be on your side, and laws like SOPA will continue to pass because your arguments based on your arrogance and thievery have no value in a court of law.

I'm not for SOPA, but I'm not going to blame some faceless label like 'the corporations' or 'the media companies' when the entire population completely ignores the rights of anyone who owns a business, and then the government is forced to act.

Lets all have free samples of things we have no intention of buying even if we like them, sneak food into a theater that obviously makes a ton of it's money off concessions, print fake coupons out and trick some cashier into taking them, stop in the music store and listen to stuff to see what we want to pull off youtube later... a typical day at the mall for the American citizen and then we're going to act like THEY are the greedy ones.

Charges Twilight fans with Ka-bar -Surfin's PlunderBunny LIIIIIIIIIIINNEEEEE PIIIEEEECCCCEEE!!!!!!! -Taedrin Using relativity to irrational numbers is smart -rodyas I no longer believe we landed on the moon. -Atticus Fynch
Santiago Fahahrri
Aliastra
Gallente Federation
#44 - 2012-01-10 02:50:00 UTC
VKhaun Vex wrote:
when the entire population completely ignores the rights of anyone who owns a business, and then the government is forced to act.


No, it's not forced to act. It's been paid off to act.

VKhaun Vex wrote:
sneak food into a theater that obviously makes a ton of it's money off concessions, print fake coupons out and trick some cashier into taking them, stop in the music store and listen to stuff to see what we want to pull off youtube later... a typical day at the mall for the American citizen and then we're going to act like THEY are the greedy ones.


The movie theater has an option to enforce it's own rules and throw out those found cheating. A more accurate analogy to SOPA would be the popcorn company contacting the government and forcing the movie theater to close because they fail to "police" their clients enough and a few popcorn smugglers sneak in.
VKhaun Vex
Viziam
Amarr Empire
#45 - 2012-01-10 10:41:45 UTC  |  Edited by: VKhaun Vex
Santiago Fahahrri wrote:
VKhaun Vex wrote:
when the entire population completely ignores the rights of anyone who owns a business, and then the government is forced to act.


No, it's not forced to act. It's been paid off to act.
No... when you break a law repeatedly and the victims lobby the government, the government is FORCED to act. They cannot issue a response to these people "Go away, it's perfectly okay for the entire populace to steal from you day in and day out as a social norm and we don't care what it costs you.". They are FORCED to find a solution.



Santiago Fahahrri wrote:
VKhaun Vex wrote:
sneak food into a theater that obviously makes a ton of it's money off concessions, print fake coupons out and trick some cashier into taking them, stop in the music store and listen to stuff to see what we want to pull off youtube later... a typical day at the mall for the American citizen and then we're going to act like THEY are the greedy ones.


The movie theater has an option to enforce it's own rules and throw out those found cheating. A more accurate analogy to SOPA would be the popcorn company contacting the government and forcing the movie theater to close because they fail to "police" their clients enough and a few popcorn smugglers sneak in.
My second quote was not an analogy...

1) It was an example of a mindset. Your analogy argues nothing and does not change the point I made in the smallest way, it just continues to show how comfortable you are with your 'freedom' to exploit anyone who owns a business.

2) I don't know what you're doing talking about popcorn companies shutting down theaters. I understand your analogy, but there is no point to make with it. There is no parallel to SOPA in popcorn since it's not a specialized product. The only parallel would be policing movie theft -which they do attempt to do- and it still doesn't fit because they are both a direct point of sale and direct victim.
SOPA targets websites that put up copyrighted works. To make your analogy fit, ironically, you'd have to apply it to the guy making a screen cap and getting his site shut down... which is no longer an analogy at all, but an example.



---Disclaimer---
I am not 'for' SOPA or defending it.
I am pointing out WHY it came about.
Please read post #43.

Charges Twilight fans with Ka-bar -Surfin's PlunderBunny LIIIIIIIIIIINNEEEEE PIIIEEEECCCCEEE!!!!!!! -Taedrin Using relativity to irrational numbers is smart -rodyas I no longer believe we landed on the moon. -Atticus Fynch
Santiago Fahahrri
Aliastra
Gallente Federation
#46 - 2012-01-10 14:19:17 UTC
VKhaun Vex wrote:
Your analogy argues nothing and does not change the point I made in the smallest way, it just continues to show how comfortable you are with your 'freedom' to exploit anyone who owns a business.

You don't know me, so unexpectedly your assumptions about me are incorrect. I download music - from a site where I pay for every song. I download movies - from a paid subscription service. I'm not exploiting anyone and I'm not advocating exploitation as freedom. Your implication that anyone who disagrees with the reasons for SOPA must be pro-theft is the same nonsense put forward by the industries that have spent so much lobbying money to push this short-sighted legislation forward. It is as flawed as suggesting that anyone against indefinite detention must be for terrorism.
VKhaun Vex wrote:

---Disclaimer---
I am not 'for' SOPA or defending it.
I am pointing out WHY it came about.
Please read post #43.

We will probably have to agree to disagree. I continue to object to your assertion that that federal government is forced to act in this matter at all. It is already illegal to steal copyrighted material. Additional federal legislation is not required.

I object to the legislative climate that has leads us to solve the problems with one set of laws by layering more bad laws on top.

I object to industries claiming hypothetical lost “future profits” the same as theft, and using very fuzzy math and logic to come up with the numbers.

I suggest that the burden in a free market is on the businesses. I object to the corporatization of the US democracy to the point that industries get a better ROI from money spent lobbying (bribing) congress to protect outdated business practices than from spending that money on innovation and offering products and services that entice modern consumers.

I object to our congress getting a better return for their time investment from accepting the special interest and corporate money and pandering to these industries rather than serving the people they should be representing.

I object to our government ignoring the very clear wording of the First Amendment “Congress shall make no law … abridging the freedom of speech...”

I support the statement by Thomas Jefferson that our government has sadly strayed so far from: “The policy of the American government is to leave their citizens free, neither restraining nor aiding them in their pursuits.”
Barakkus
#47 - 2012-01-10 15:59:48 UTC
Obsidian Hawk wrote:
why would i pay 10 bucks for a bag of popcorn that only costs 1 dollar to make and when i can sneak in better food to a theatre for a lot less.


Bad, bad analogy, you're not even in the same universe with that one.

I personally want to be paid for the work I put in on something, unfortunately, too many people think everything in life doesn't require effort because they're too lazy to do anything themselves, so therefore everything should be free.

http://youtu.be/yytbDZrw1jc
VKhaun Vex
Viziam
Amarr Empire
#48 - 2012-01-10 17:30:22 UTC  |  Edited by: VKhaun Vex
Santiago Fahahrri wrote:
You don't know me, so unexpectedly your assumptions about me are incorrect.


Honest apology. When you replied to my response to Obsidian Hawk I confused the two of you. I actually had to go back and copy his quote about not paying for things before I realized the names and avatars were different.

But you are correct that we must agree to disagree. When they sell a movie online just as you say you buy them, stealing and giving that same movie away to people is most certainly theft and profit loss. Nothing hypothetical there that I can see, and I don't see how giving away stolen goods has anything to do with 'free speech'.

Charges Twilight fans with Ka-bar -Surfin's PlunderBunny LIIIIIIIIIIINNEEEEE PIIIEEEECCCCEEE!!!!!!! -Taedrin Using relativity to irrational numbers is smart -rodyas I no longer believe we landed on the moon. -Atticus Fynch
Spineker
#49 - 2012-01-10 21:23:51 UTC
SOPA is a LONG way from even being voted on. Interwebs Fear Mongering at its best
Sidus Isaacs
Center for Advanced Studies
Gallente Federation
#50 - 2012-01-10 21:59:50 UTC
Spineker wrote:
SOPA is a LONG way from even being voted on. Interwebs Fear Mongering at its best


Just like NDAA and Patriot Act, right?

Now we are getting SOPA, PIPA and ACTA.

The ignorant attitude of ignoring these kinds of thing have horrible results. But I guess no one pays that much attention to history or recent events these days.
VKhaun Vex
Viziam
Amarr Empire
#51 - 2012-01-10 22:08:44 UTC  |  Edited by: VKhaun Vex
Sidus Isaacs wrote:
Spineker wrote:
SOPA is a LONG way from even being voted on. Interwebs Fear Mongering at its best


Just like NDAA and Patriot Act, right?

Now we are getting SOPA, PIPA and ACTA.

The ignorant attitude of ignoring these kinds of thing have horrible results. But I guess no one pays that much attention to history or recent events these days.


You have assumed that he doesn't care.
He's just pointing out that there is time to stop it or change it.

Charges Twilight fans with Ka-bar -Surfin's PlunderBunny LIIIIIIIIIIINNEEEEE PIIIEEEECCCCEEE!!!!!!! -Taedrin Using relativity to irrational numbers is smart -rodyas I no longer believe we landed on the moon. -Atticus Fynch
Sidus Isaacs
Center for Advanced Studies
Gallente Federation
#52 - 2012-01-10 22:30:40 UTC
VKhaun Vex wrote:
Sidus Isaacs wrote:
Spineker wrote:
SOPA is a LONG way from even being voted on. Interwebs Fear Mongering at its best


Just like NDAA and Patriot Act, right?

Now we are getting SOPA, PIPA and ACTA.

The ignorant attitude of ignoring these kinds of thing have horrible results. But I guess no one pays that much attention to history or recent events these days.


You have assumed that he doesn't care.
He's just pointing out that there is time to stop it or change it.


Perhaps, but it is not fear mongering, the act is quite serious. Maybe I just interpret what he say differently then what he intended to convey.
Herzog Wolfhammer
Sigma Special Tactics Group
#53 - 2012-01-11 16:24:06 UTC
I look forward to the day they will send SWAT teams to take down "illegal wireless routers".

We already outnumber them.

Meanwhile, an awesome constructive and peaceful idea that I wish I had the skills to help with.

Bring back DEEEEP Space!
2bhammered
Cyberpunk 2077
#54 - 2012-01-11 16:26:18 UTC
Thank god I don't live China... I mean USA.
Spineker
#55 - 2012-01-11 20:17:22 UTC  |  Edited by: Spineker
Sidus Isaacs wrote:
Spineker wrote:
SOPA is a LONG way from even being voted on. Interwebs Fear Mongering at its best


Just like NDAA and Patriot Act, right?

Now we are getting SOPA, PIPA and ACTA.

The ignorant attitude of ignoring these kinds of thing have horrible results. But I guess no one pays that much attention to history or recent events these days.



I had no problem with the Patriot Act. It was better than the alternative, the president using war powers authority. Ask the Japanese Americans under FDR in WWII.

It is not ignorant attitude it being honest and not running around like a little girl screaming the sky is falling. I think I know a hell of a lot more about history than you if this is the best you can come up with. It will not pass find something else to scream about it is languishing now and it will be stopped because people know what it is they can't ram it through. You need to learn legislative process which you are sorely lacking knowledge of.
SlayerOfArgus
Hermes Enterprises
#56 - 2012-01-11 20:52:18 UTC
Herzog Wolfhammer wrote:
I look forward to the day they will send SWAT teams to take down "illegal wireless routers".

We already outnumber them.

Meanwhile, an awesome constructive and peaceful idea that I wish I had the skills to help with.



That's ******* awesome Shocked
Dierdra Vaal
Interstellar Stargate Syndicate
#57 - 2012-01-11 21:07:02 UTC
there's an AMA going on reddit by one of the lawyers from Riot Games (LoL), who explains why Riot is against SOPA:

Quote:
This doesn't hit us nearly as hard as it hits our community. I'll just give a few tangible examples:

  • Streaming: There's no way that Riot can risk promoting our streamers by linking or embedding. We have no effective way to pre-screen a streamer's content (although we definitely DO urge that people respect IP law). Under the DMCA, we definitely get some breathing room here if someone commits infringement. Under SOPA, even an embed potentially exposes us to injunctions against payment providers, ad networks, and potentially worse given the immunity provisions in §105(a).
    • And keep in mind that many streaming sites would be §102 (foreign) sites - subject to DNS blocking. Oh wait, my bad. "Feasible" blocking now. Whoops. So really, there's an open question as to if these would exist.
  • Links in the forums: Yeah, again, no effective way to pre-screen. Absolutely gone. That's one step removed from our top level domain. This is truly scary stuff.

In short, think of it this way. Any serious engagement of our community that involves derivative content of OUR IP that is not rigorously screened and cleared has the potential to expose us to such a magnitude of liability that the business case is prohibitive.


Considering this guy is a lawyer running "the IP and Games component of [the Riot Games] legal team", I think his opinion shouldn't just be discounted.

Eve doesn't really have the same kind of streaming setup as LoL, though the alliance tournament would clearly be affected. The forums would be at risk as well as someone posting a link to an eve video containing copyrighted content could lead to CCP getting in trouble. And I don't even know how this might affect eve radio and new eden radio.

Is there any word on what CCP's stance on this is?

Veto #205

Director Emeritus at EVE University

CSM1 delegate, CSM3 chairman and CSM5 vice-chairman

Evesterdam organiser and CSM Vote Match founder

Co-Author of the Galactic Party Planning Guide
2bhammered
Cyberpunk 2077
#58 - 2012-01-11 21:16:34 UTC
Dierdra Vaal wrote:
there's an AMA going on reddit by one of the lawyers from Riot Games (LoL), who explains why Riot is against SOPA:

Quote:
This doesn't hit us nearly as hard as it hits our community. I'll just give a few tangible examples:

  • Streaming: There's no way that Riot can risk promoting our streamers by linking or embedding. We have no effective way to pre-screen a streamer's content (although we definitely DO urge that people respect IP law). Under the DMCA, we definitely get some breathing room here if someone commits infringement. Under SOPA, even an embed potentially exposes us to injunctions against payment providers, ad networks, and potentially worse given the immunity provisions in §105(a).
    • And keep in mind that many streaming sites would be §102 (foreign) sites - subject to DNS blocking. Oh wait, my bad. "Feasible" blocking now. Whoops. So really, there's an open question as to if these would exist.
  • Links in the forums: Yeah, again, no effective way to pre-screen. Absolutely gone. That's one step removed from our top level domain. This is truly scary stuff.

In short, think of it this way. Any serious engagement of our community that involves derivative content of OUR IP that is not rigorously screened and cleared has the potential to expose us to such a magnitude of liability that the business case is prohibitive.


Considering this guy is a lawyer running "the IP and Games component of [the Riot Games] legal team", I think his opinion shouldn't just be discounted.

Eve doesn't really have the same kind of streaming setup as LoL, though the alliance tournament would clearly be affected. The forums would be at risk as well as someone posting a link to an eve video containing copyrighted content could lead to CCP getting in trouble. And I don't even know how this might affect eve radio and new eden radio.

Is there any word on what CCP's stance on this is?



How would CCP be affected other than possibly that no americans can play the game? EVE radio is in the UK right? server also or on Iceland, they have their own laws, in Sweden SOPA will not be recognised at all, the EU parlament already made a statement denouncing the law and also going to refuse allowing it to affect internet in any EU states.

Maybe I missunderstood and you can explain, I am still not so informed about SOPA and its effects other than my country and the EU will not be a part of it which was the most important concern to mel.
Dierdra Vaal
Interstellar Stargate Syndicate
#59 - 2012-01-11 21:51:11 UTC  |  Edited by: Dierdra Vaal
2bhammered wrote:
How would CCP be affected other than possibly that no americans can play the game?


2bhammered wrote:
no americans can play the game


^^^^^^^^^

American players are good for what, 40% of CCP's revenue? What do you think will happen to CCP/Eve if all of that suddenly disappears? It's simply not something CCP could afford to happen.

And that's even ignoring the fact that american players will presumably not be happy that they can't play Eve anymore.

Veto #205

Director Emeritus at EVE University

CSM1 delegate, CSM3 chairman and CSM5 vice-chairman

Evesterdam organiser and CSM Vote Match founder

Co-Author of the Galactic Party Planning Guide
2bhammered
Cyberpunk 2077
#60 - 2012-01-11 21:57:02 UTC  |  Edited by: 2bhammered
Dierdra Vaal wrote:
2bhammered wrote:
How would CCP be affected other than possibly that no americans can play the game?


2bhammered wrote:
no americans can play the game


^^^^^^^^^

American players are good for what, 40% of CCP's revenue? What do you think will happen to CCP/Eve if all of that suddenly disappears?

And that's even ignoring the fact that american players will presumably not be happy that they can't play Eve anymore.



That is the point though, because when that happens you will see a **** storm happen with goons swarming around the white house in droves and the goverment will be forced to take SOPA and throw it in the garbage and hopefully one or 2 lobbyists from the music and movie industry will loose their life in the process Lol


Or, we will just have more russians in this game instead, and their money is as good as the US dollar.