Player Features and Ideas Discussion

Hi Teckos! If the hauling model is a placeholder, use it. The movement of goods indefinitely expedites the movement of ISK in most investment scenarios.

Not sure that initiating such a mechanism would be very good though....

I was not thinking of fraud. This is EVE, I'm fine with fraud and corp theft, and so forth. What I was worried about was all that ISK sitting in people's wallets suddenly flowing into the economy.

The problem with this trust verification idea is that the entities with a consistent record of being trustworthy are most likely to be the large and old entities that already have plenty of assets. The people that need loans the most are the newer entities that want to bypass the slow buildup to the endgame economy and go straight into business, but they're simultaneously the least trustworthy customers for a loan (other than known scammers).

How do you parse the quote above? Having SEC (or analog) is integral in having enforcement between parties via arbitration or litigation.

You are right in that if you have an exchange even via contracts without enforcement surprise like anything else it is over taken with fraud.

Ironically United States has this very problem right now the SEC is captured by industry and ruling class own congress.

Well as far as I see it the SEC is the cop on the beat and while its not popular this rolled must be filled. SEC needed to be created and was to restore confidence into the system which was torn to pieces by the great depression.

I bring up real life economics because they cannot be separated but also because that is what you're saying is no one has the confidence in the market to not be crooked. Courts are great but a court cannot function without a police officer. The police officer gathers the evidence and presents it to the lawyers who in a perfect world explore the evidence together with the court making the adjudication.

What your saying is EVE needs a function to collect evidence and have people enforce codicils. I think this could be done, but for the effort i'm not sure many people would be down for this in game. What your really doing is allowing the richest people in EVE to leverage their assets to an even greater degree.

I think this idea should really be something else entirely. Why not have a commodities futures market with in game minerals. I think I just blew my own mind. That would be awesome and you could have people play the market in ISK. The only problem being you may have an issue withe negative ISK balances i guess this could work with a bankruptcy system.

I'm not sure what your point is about the 100 years of NYSE with no SEC. Those were the bad old days if your saying SEC did something bad by existing I don't really follow. In your example CCP would be the proverbial cop on the beat. What your talking about is a lending or credit which I am sure CCP isn't keen on its players having access to because they sell PLEX.

You naive son of a *****. We are not talking about a modern stock exchange here. They are over complicated and over regulated. And there is no need for that in EVE online. So why are you talking about a modern stock exchange? Are you a moron?

You are delibarety complicating things for no reason. I suspect that you are another of the trolls who only hang out on features and ideas section to troll. Get a life.

Anyway, unlike Rivr Luzade who is a complete moron, the idea doesent have to complicated. You start out with basic functionality, list, buy and sell. Just take the current market browser and adapt it for shares. You would have different categories. 1B market valuation companies, 20B market valuation etc. This idea could be expanded to great lengths like i already mentioned and really introduce some interesting game mechanics for players. If you cant see that you are blind.





Im sorry but this is just ignorant. I dont know if Chribba is still around, but he is a great example of how trust is earned without being enforced. There will be plenty of people in EVE online who can build succesfull companies and grow the value of their shares based on their trust. Thats basically how EVE online works as a whole anyway. You also trust your corp mates to not steal etc. I dont see what the problem is.

We already have market speculation to some extent. We don't have a future's market so we can't do some of the more interesting things we see in RL, but we do have market speculation. If you think a patch is going to drive up the price of X you can buy X and hold it. If you are already holding X and you think the patch will drive the price down you dump your current holdings.

Speculation is not a bad thing. Speculators help bring information into markets so that the price reflects all as much information as possible.

The stock market is not going to work unless CCP builds something for it. What is a stock market, it is a way for people who have a business idea to go out and get money for that investment. Instead of using a loan, they give the investors a share of the business. There has to be trust here. No trust; no stock market. That trust has two forms.

1. That the people asking for investment money can be trusted to a reasonable degree.
2. If they are fraudsters, the legal system will impose penalties and allow investors to recoup some portion (at least) of their investment.

People have to have trust in both 1 and 2 for things to work, IMO. Now unless CCP builds not only the stock exchange, but also some sort of judicial/legal system into the game, a stock market cannot emerge spontaneously in this game.

As I noted before it is way, way too easy to avoid the negative aspects of engaging in corporate fraud and embezzlement. IRL, it is much, much harder. So in real life a legal/judicial system can and did spontaneously emerge as did markets and eventually a stock market. If you cheat in RL you can be locked up. How would that work in game? You have log in and not be able to dod anything at all? Perhaps if we made character death more permanent and costly....maybe.

So either CCP does it, and gets bogged down in listening to player grievances and taking a direct hand in resolving them, which is quite counter to CCP's previous approach to the game, or we just don't have one.

Further, another potential problem is once CCP starts interfering in player-on-player interactions it can lead to outcomes nobody foresees like a CCP judge making decisions that are aimed at promoting some sort of view of social welfare vs. simply deciding the case.

Finally, if there is a viable financial system then all that ISK sitting in people's wallets will flood into the economy. The inflationary impact could be quite substantial. And that might lead some to call for a central bank, which could itself lead to all sorts of unintended consequences (central banks have a pretty bad track record at managing monetary systems and economies). Basically this could be the camel's nose under the tent for CCP taking a more activist role in the game. Which in turn would make it less and less of a sandbox.

You do know that the very basic concept of shares already exists, right? And hardly anyone uses it? Let me give you a hint, the reason why nobody uses it is not the absence of a dedicated market section for buying and selling shares, it's because stocks in EVE are currently a fundamentally broken concept. Your proposed market would be empty.



Again, the problem is that the very few trustworthy entities in EVE tend to be the largest and wealthiest ones, and therefore the ones with the least need to raise money by selling shares. Meanwhile the younger and poorer entities that have the greatest need for selling shares rarely have any record to trust, so nobody will be interested in their shares. Any stock market would be a vast sea of scams, with maybe a rare genuine share in there somewhere that nobody trusts enough to buy.