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Circuits
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Teckos Pech
Hogyoku
Goonswarm Federation
#21 - 2017-05-08 04:59:47 UTC
Zabo Achasse wrote:
I don't understand what you guys mean.

A satellite is simply an example of the sort of thing that can be done. Perhaps there is a way to implement satellites in a fun and interesting way which might involve setting up orbits and all sorts of stuff but my idea is not the satellite.

My idea is that players are given the ability to make electrical circuits and to modify electrical items that have electrical circuits, possibly simplifying more complex modules. You seem to have taken my suggestions for what players could do with it, and made it into it's own proposal.


What you appear to be suggesting is, I think, impossible. The number of possible permutations would rise very rapidly even a small number of electronic devices. CCP would need to code in for all of these permutations even the ones not used or rarely used. Thus, it would place heavy demands on Dev time. And I'm not sure about all the programming and its effects on the game itself.

"The curious task of economics is to demonstrate to men how little they really know about what they imagine they can design."--Friedrich August von Hayek

8 Golden Rules for EVE Online
Teckos Pech
Hogyoku
Goonswarm Federation
#22 - 2017-05-08 05:13:28 UTC
Danika Princip wrote:
Zabo Achasse wrote:
If we assume that you are able to build circuits in the same manner as you can in real life, it means that you can make any circuit that exists in real life.

That is a big thing. It will mean that eve is turing-complete.

It depends how far ccp would be willing to implement it, but you could have whole ships wired up and modified to go-faster by players, with their own custom configurations of circuitboards, power supplies and processors.




So it's basically rigs, but much more of a nightmare to balance?

And can you please explain how a circuit you or I could make in real life is going to affect an antimatter reactor, plasma thrusters or a 200mm machine gun that fires miniature nuclear bombs?


Not just that, but with many possible permutations (if the order of the "circuits" matters) or combinations (if order of the circuits do not). With rigs my guess is CCP said, lets create some rigs. So they sat down and worked on a list and the inputs (some of which I'm assuming are these "circuits"). But what is being proposed is far, far more open ended. Players could take the "circuits" portion of the rigs "recipe" and start creating their own "recipes" creating de novo rigs that previously have not existed. And it could be even more broad than rigs. It could be modules too. After all, here is the list of things needed to build a hammerhead.

Particle Accelerator Unit,
Guidance System,
Robotics,
R.A.M. - Robotics
Morphite.

If by "curcuits" we are talking about the first four, what happens if we swap out parts, what do we get then? Or we open up guidance systems?

The thing is it becomes very complicated, very demanding and could have all sorts of implications we simply cannot foresee--i.e. it could be very unbalancing. For example, new circuits for things like having drones return to the drone bay when they take x% or more shield damage? How about a warning indicator that you are out of ammo. Or a new circuit so the guns automatically resume firing once reloaded. Or a satellite that sits there and warns me when there is gate fire. Now I can rat and watch Netflix with all the benefits of staring at local.

"The curious task of economics is to demonstrate to men how little they really know about what they imagine they can design."--Friedrich August von Hayek

8 Golden Rules for EVE Online
Teckos Pech
Hogyoku
Goonswarm Federation
#23 - 2017-05-08 05:23:25 UTC
Cade Windstalker wrote:
Oh man, so many reasons this is a *terrible* idea.

First off, it's not simple by any means. There are entire companies built around programs for accurately simulating circuits of any complexity. This would be a *huge* development effort.

Beyond that, this would massively enable automation and, essentially, botting. There's literally no scenario I can think of where this is in any way gameplay related or useful where it's not just enabling botting.

Even beyond that, assuming somehow it's not botting, something that open ended would be almost impossible to balance in any meaningful way. The entire reason things like ship fitting are so tightly constrained by rules and restrictions is because without those the game balance goes off the rails *very* quickly.

I could probably come up with more, but "botting" and "impossible to balance" are some mountain sized issues so what more do you need in a "no"?


What the op is trying to describe, IMO, is adding innovation to the game. Letting players drive the innovation. This kind of thing is awesome in economies. This is why an economy can grow exponentially. Innovation lets you get the same amount of stuff with fewer inputs. Those freed up inputs can then be put to use making even more stuff. IRL it is awesome. In a game it could be a nightmare because it can lead to imbalances, and even if you fix one, players will be out there beavering away to find a new innovation that gives them an edge. And again, you could end up with an imbalance.

The Devs, at least IMO, are trying to create a compex version of rock-paper-scissors with a nice dash of politics and an entire economy build around it. This proposal will give the innovative the edge and everyone will be chasing that and trying to copy it. The system would have to quite open so that when an innovate player or player(s) came up with something then other players would try to copy it and/or find their own alternative solution. In theory, it sounds great and in it's own way is rather EVE-like. But I just can't see how this could be made operational in a video game...but maybe I am wrong.

And yes, it could very well lead to more bot like playing. I design "circuits" that make it so I am even less engaged with the game.

"The curious task of economics is to demonstrate to men how little they really know about what they imagine they can design."--Friedrich August von Hayek

8 Golden Rules for EVE Online
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