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Intergalactic Summit

 
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Author
Myxx
Incredible.
#21 - 2017-05-04 14:52:23 UTC
Deitra Vess wrote:
The caldari navy cadets dont shine their boots as well as gallante navy cadets.

As former Federal Navy, I am proudly confirming this.
Valerie Valate
Church of The Crimson Saviour
#22 - 2017-05-04 16:54:11 UTC
Mebrithiel Ju'wien wrote:
So, who are you dating lately, hun?


Well, I'm not sure if you can call it dating, more like, ummm, hmmm, how to put this...

I have an occasional thing, with someone, but well, you know, a couple little issues keep getting in the way, you know, typical dating stuff. Should we go to this restaurant, or that one ? Does this outfit make my anatomy look weird ? Have you decided to renounce your heretical ways and embrace the True Orthodoxy ? I can't make this weekend, I already had plans. Sorry for not turning up, I had to eradicate some heresy, etc. etc.

You know. Typical 2nd century YC dating complications.

Mizhir wrote:

Why anyone would ever consider dating you is beyond my understanding.


See, Nauplius has what the Scriptures refer to as "bad boy appeal". He is like, literally the wild-haired zealot with peculiar Scripture interpretations, that mothers are warned about in Scripture, where it is Written about how a Righteous Daughter should shun the attentions of wild-haired zealots, and instead go after more conventionally attractive young men and so on.

You know, rebelling against parental authority and all that malarkey.

Doctor V. Valate, Professor of Archaeology at Kaztropolis Imperial University.

Arrendis
GoonWaffe
Goonswarm Federation
#23 - 2017-05-04 19:11:28 UTC
Halcyon Ember wrote:
Or that you're simply so repressed that you must urgently seek privacy without delay at even the hint of something that might tantalise you.


Or that he chickens out easily.
Arrendis
GoonWaffe
Goonswarm Federation
#24 - 2017-05-04 19:45:37 UTC  |  Edited by: Arrendis
Aria Jenneth wrote:
Arrendis wrote:
There's no difference, Aria. Sucking the life out of people is sucking the life out of people, whether you're literally bathing in their blood or building your family fortune off of generations of their toil.


That's from one very particular point of view, Arrendis. I'm pretty sure you know better than to think it's the only one that's meaningful. I'd be really disappointed to be mistaken about that.

Either way, I know you too well to argue you should change your position on this. For one thing, you're clever enough to be able to see perspectives you're not speaking from, and I don't really have the energy for a battle you could probably fight with yourself. For another, you'd fight me on every point whether you really believed it or not.

You already understand the difference. Or, if, strangely, you don't, Ali can probably explain it in ways you'd be reluctant to fight her over. She had me attend her meeting with Ms. Leshrac, with a sidearm. It wasn't to protect either of them, except in the most metaphorical or spiritual sense.


I understand the difference others see in it. Just as I completely understand that there are other viewpoints and opinions on the matter.

They're wrong. They are as wrong as the people who like to claim that we're not responsible for bringing the Draifters down on our own heads. I still fully support blowing them all to hel because it's us or them, but make no mistake: we did that to ourselves, now we've got to wipe out the nornets' nest we kicked over.

So yes, there's plenty of different viewpoints about this. Mine is: a group of maniacs from one island wrote a book to justify wanton slavery and bloodshed in order to advance and expand their own power. Their descendents continued to use that book that conveniently said they were uniquely authorized to murder and enslave people... to murder and enslave people until they controlled their entire planet. They obliterated by force and cultural 'violation' every other nation and way of life on that world.

Then they spread their cancer to the stars. And they continued to tell everyone else they had two choices: either be killed or enslaved by force, and have their own unique cultures brutally sodomized into extinction, or agree in the total and perfect divine rightness of a book that says the Amarr get to kill and enslave anyone in the name of culturally sodomizing them until they give in and agree with the book.

Do it at gunpoint, or we'll shoot you and torture your kids until they do it.

And none of the other opinions, none of the other viewpoints, can alter those simple truths. That's what happened. That's what's continuing to be done to every still-enslaved lineage in the Empire. Anyone who says otherwise is either wrong... or a liar.

That's really all there is to it, Aria.
Arrendis
GoonWaffe
Goonswarm Federation
#25 - 2017-05-04 20:04:33 UTC
Diana, I have a question for you:

Diana Kim wrote:
Some people will consider using slaves unethical. Some people will consider using slaves ethical. Some would even consider vitoc-ed slaves as ethical. It is just what our culture teaches us and there is NO single answer of whether a certain type of crewmember is ethical or not - everyone will have different opinion.

But what we can compare, it is efficiency of crewmbembers.
And efficiency of slaves on a military vessel, especially drugged ones, is lacking.


Considering your stance on sexual activity outside of procreation, isn't this a double-standard? Slavery is ok for the Amarr because it's their culture, but enjoying sex is bad, deviant, and evil no matter who you are?
Claudia Osyn
Non-Hostile Target
Wild Geese.
#26 - 2017-05-04 20:07:06 UTC
Arrendis wrote:
Diana, I have a question for you:

Diana Kim wrote:
Some people will consider using slaves unethical. Some people will consider using slaves ethical. Some would even consider vitoc-ed slaves as ethical. It is just what our culture teaches us and there is NO single answer of whether a certain type of crewmember is ethical or not - everyone will have different opinion.

But what we can compare, it is efficiency of crewmbembers.
And efficiency of slaves on a military vessel, especially drugged ones, is lacking.


Considering your stance on sexual activity outside of procreation, isn't this a double-standard? Slavery is ok for the Amarr because it's their culture, but enjoying sex is bad, deviant, and evil no matter who you are?

Open, Oh can of worm!

A little trust goes a long way. The less you use, the further you'll go.

Halcyon Ember
Repracor Industries
#27 - 2017-05-04 20:24:00 UTC
Claudia Osyn wrote:
Arrendis wrote:
Diana, I have a question for you:

Diana Kim wrote:
Some people will consider using slaves unethical. Some people will consider using slaves ethical. Some would even consider vitoc-ed slaves as ethical. It is just what our culture teaches us and there is NO single answer of whether a certain type of crewmember is ethical or not - everyone will have different opinion.

But what we can compare, it is efficiency of crewmbembers.
And efficiency of slaves on a military vessel, especially drugged ones, is lacking.


Considering your stance on sexual activity outside of procreation, isn't this a double-standard? Slavery is ok for the Amarr because it's their culture, but enjoying sex is bad, deviant, and evil no matter who you are?

Open, Oh can of worm!

Don't worry, she'll ignore any hypocrisy in her stance and declare Arrendis vile. All will be well.

Queen of Chocolate

Aria Jenneth
Societas Imperialis Sceptri Coronaeque
Khimi Harar
#28 - 2017-05-04 20:52:26 UTC  |  Edited by: Aria Jenneth
Arrendis wrote:
I understand the difference others see in it. Just as I completely understand that there are other viewpoints and opinions on the matter.

They're wrong. They are as wrong as the people who like to claim that we're not responsible for bringing the Draifters down on our own heads. I still fully support blowing them all to hel because it's us or them, but make no mistake: we did that to ourselves, now we've got to wipe out the nornets' nest we kicked over.

So yes, there's plenty of different viewpoints about this. Mine is: a group of maniacs from one island wrote a book to justify wanton slavery and bloodshed in order to advance and expand their own power. Their descendents continued to use that book that conveniently said they were uniquely authorized to murder and enslave people... to murder and enslave people until they controlled their entire planet. They obliterated by force and cultural 'violation' every other nation and way of life on that world.

Then they spread their cancer to the stars. And they continued to tell everyone else they had two choices: either be killed or enslaved by force, and have their own unique cultures brutally sodomized into extinction, or agree in the total and perfect divine rightness of a book that says the Amarr get to kill and enslave anyone in the name of culturally sodomizing them until they give in and agree with the book.

Do it at gunpoint, or we'll shoot you and torture your kids until they do it.

And none of the other opinions, none of the other viewpoints, can alter those simple truths. That's what happened. That's what's continuing to be done to every still-enslaved lineage in the Empire. Anyone who says otherwise is either wrong... or a liar.

That's really all there is to it, Aria.


Only, Arrendis, whether what the Amarr did and/or do is awful wasn't the question. The question was whether there's no meaningful difference between them and the Sani Sabik, whose collective reaction to such a sentiment, should they get the chance, would kind of boil down to, "Challenge accepted!"

The fact that Sani Sabik seems to be basically the Amarrian error state is at the heart of me really not wanting to see the Empire fall even if that were a possible thing. The likely fallout from that would be....

It seems to me that one of the most dangerous sentiments in this cluster is, "It can't be worse." It's really, really rare for that thought to be true.
Halcyon Ember
Repracor Industries
#29 - 2017-05-04 21:28:28 UTC
Aria Jenneth wrote:

It seems to me that one of the most dangerous sentiments in this cluster is, "It can't be worse." It's really, really rare for that thought to be true.

Many people don't realise how far they have yet to fall

Queen of Chocolate

Arrendis
GoonWaffe
Goonswarm Federation
#30 - 2017-05-04 21:28:54 UTC
Aria Jenneth wrote:

Only, Arrendis, whether what the Amarr did and/or do is awful wasn't the question. The question was whether there's no meaningful difference between them and the Sani Sabik, whose collective reaction to such a sentiment, should they get the chance, would kind of boil down to, "Challenge accepted!"

The fact that Sani Sabik seems to be basically the Amarrian error state is at the heart of me really not wanting to see the Empire fall even if that were a possible thing. The likely fallout from that would be....

It seems to me that one of the most dangerous sentiments in this cluster is, "It can't be worse." It's really, really rare for that thought to be true.


I'll never claim it couldn't be worse. Only that the Sani are different from the rest of the Amarr only in the particular flavor of self-indulgent religious justification for their obscenities. Just because the mainstream Amarr collectively say 'that's not what we want to do' doesn't mean that they wouldn't, if it was. Or that they wouldn't justify it with 'God said so'.
Halcyon Ember
Repracor Industries
#31 - 2017-05-04 21:43:17 UTC
Arrendis wrote:
Aria Jenneth wrote:

Only, Arrendis, whether what the Amarr did and/or do is awful wasn't the question. The question was whether there's no meaningful difference between them and the Sani Sabik, whose collective reaction to such a sentiment, should they get the chance, would kind of boil down to, "Challenge accepted!"

The fact that Sani Sabik seems to be basically the Amarrian error state is at the heart of me really not wanting to see the Empire fall even if that were a possible thing. The likely fallout from that would be....

It seems to me that one of the most dangerous sentiments in this cluster is, "It can't be worse." It's really, really rare for that thought to be true.


I'll never claim it couldn't be worse. Only that the Sani are different from the rest of the Amarr only in the particular flavor of self-indulgent religious justification for their obscenities. Just because the mainstream Amarr collectively say 'that's not what we want to do' doesn't mean that they wouldn't, if it was. Or that they wouldn't justify it with 'God said so'.

I don't feel the desire or ability to indulge themselves given justification is unique to my "people".

Queen of Chocolate

Diana Kim
Caldari Colonial Defense Ministry
Templis CALSF
#32 - 2017-05-04 21:45:10 UTC
Also, Arrendis is bad.

Honored are the dead, for their legacy guides us.

In memory of Tibus Heth, Caldari State Executor YC110-115, Hero and Patriot.

Arrendis
GoonWaffe
Goonswarm Federation
#33 - 2017-05-04 21:50:26 UTC
Halcyon Ember wrote:

I don't feel the desire or ability to indulge themselves given justification is unique to my "people".


And yet, the vast majority of the cluster has managed to avoid openly endorsing enslaving other peoples for generations with the express purpose of destroying their cultures.

Funny, that.
Aria Jenneth
Societas Imperialis Sceptri Coronaeque
Khimi Harar
#34 - 2017-05-04 21:55:06 UTC
Arrendis wrote:
I'll never claim it couldn't be worse. Only that the Sani are different from the rest of the Amarr only in the particular flavor of self-indulgent religious justification for their obscenities. Just because the mainstream Amarr collectively say 'that's not what we want to do' doesn't mean that they wouldn't, if it was. Or that they wouldn't justify it with 'God said so'.


If you're claiming they're only different in their "particular flavor," you're implicitly saying neither is worse than the other; they're just different flavors of an otherwise indistinguishable invasion.

That's really just a quibble, though, I guess. The sort of moral equivalency you're aiming for is mostly shrug-worthy for me. Being dismissed as barbaric and wrong by someone who doesn't share your context is something most people from the State can relate to.
Halcyon Ember
Repracor Industries
#35 - 2017-05-04 21:55:12 UTC
Arrendis wrote:
Halcyon Ember wrote:

I don't feel the desire or ability to indulge themselves given justification is unique to my "people".


And yet, the vast majority of the cluster has managed to avoid openly endorsing enslaving other peoples for generations with the express purpose of destroying their cultures.

Funny, that.


It's the nature of the justification, rather than the people. Unless you feel the desire to enslave is endemic to the people and being and being "Amarrian" somehow makes us so very different to everyone else.

Queen of Chocolate

Arrendis
GoonWaffe
Goonswarm Federation
#36 - 2017-05-04 22:02:59 UTC
Aria Jenneth wrote:

If you're claiming they're only different in their "particular flavor," you're implicitly saying neither is worse than the other; they're just different flavors of an otherwise indistinguishable invasion.


Neither is. They're both the sort of thing that should be met with a bullet to the head from anyone who doesn't endorse them.
Kaatana Deikano
Phoenix Naval Operations
Phoenix Naval Systems
#37 - 2017-05-04 22:04:10 UTC
Wow this off-topic thread actually kinda got derailed. That's impressive.

Deitra Vess wrote:
The caldari navy cadets dont shine their boots as well as gallante navy cadets.


Lies. There are no boots shinier than Caldari boots.
Arrendis
GoonWaffe
Goonswarm Federation
#38 - 2017-05-04 22:08:11 UTC
Halcyon Ember wrote:

It's the nature of the justification, rather than the people. Unless you feel the desire to enslave is endemic to the people and being and being "Amarrian" somehow makes us so very different to everyone else.


I think the Amarr hold that being Amarr makes you different from everyone else, and fully justified in commiting your atrocities because your 'Book of Why We're Better' says so. And until the atrocity ends, it should be opposed. If I thought we'd accomplish more than just annihilating ourselves and expanding the proportion of Matari in chains from 'some' to 'all', I'd be right there with Miz on burning the Empire down to ash.
Arrendis
GoonWaffe
Goonswarm Federation
#39 - 2017-05-04 22:09:18 UTC
Kaatana Deikano wrote:
Wow this off-topic thread actually kinda got derailed. That's impressive.


No, it didn't. It's currently keeping an off-topic discussion from happening in another thread, by bringing it here.
Halcyon Ember
Repracor Industries
#40 - 2017-05-04 22:13:45 UTC
Arrendis wrote:
Halcyon Ember wrote:

It's the nature of the justification, rather than the people. Unless you feel the desire to enslave is endemic to the people and being and being "Amarrian" somehow makes us so very different to everyone else.


I think the Amarr hold that being Amarr makes you different from everyone else, and fully justified in commiting your atrocities because your 'Book of Why We're Better' says so. And until the atrocity ends, it should be opposed. If I thought we'd accomplish more than just annihilating ourselves and expanding the proportion of Matari in chains from 'some' to 'all', I'd be right there with Miz on burning the Empire down to ash.



That's a product of the belief, rather than the people. Thus the belief needs to change. Unless you're saying I should be purged as a slaver waiting to happen?

Queen of Chocolate