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Concord

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DeMichael Crimson
Republic University
Minmatar Republic
#121 - 2017-04-29 02:43:42 UTC
Galaxy Pig wrote:
DeMichael Crimson wrote:


Blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah.

Blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah.

Blah.

DMC


In every. Damn. Thread.

Just skip over it, if there's anything of substance in there, it's not worth wading through his verbosity to find it.

Hahaha, your little sarcastic comments and misquoting is nothing more than rage tears.

Thanks for showing us just how butthurt you really are.


DMC

'The Plan' | California Eve Players | Proposal - The Endless Battle
Dracvlad
Taishi Combine
Astral Alliance
#122 - 2017-04-29 12:32:40 UTC  |  Edited by: Dracvlad
Posting in a CODE and HTFU posters all looking very stupid thread thanks to DMC detailing a GM's post that refuted all their posts and of course their own hang ups. ShockedRollLol

When the going gets tough the Gankers get their CSM rep to change mechanics in their favour.

Blocked: Teckos Pech, Sonya Corvinus, baltec1, Shae Tadaruwa, Wander Prian, Daichi Yamato, Jonah Gravenstein, Merin Ryskin, Linus Gorp
Yebo Lakatosh
Brutor Tribe
Minmatar Republic
#123 - 2017-04-29 13:36:40 UTC
Dracvlad wrote:
very stupid thread thanks to DMC
Complete lack of punctuation is practical - everyone can read whatever they want into it. So all will like you!

Elite F1 pilot since YC119, incarnate of honor, integrity and tidi.
Dracvlad
Taishi Combine
Astral Alliance
#124 - 2017-04-29 16:18:39 UTC
Yebo Lakatosh wrote:
Dracvlad wrote:
very stupid thread thanks to DMC
Complete lack of punctuation is practical - everyone can read whatever they want into it. So all will like you!


Generally the worst posters change other peoples quotes and then comment on it, just saying...

When the going gets tough the Gankers get their CSM rep to change mechanics in their favour.

Blocked: Teckos Pech, Sonya Corvinus, baltec1, Shae Tadaruwa, Wander Prian, Daichi Yamato, Jonah Gravenstein, Merin Ryskin, Linus Gorp
Herzog Wolfhammer
Sigma Special Tactics Group
#125 - 2017-04-29 16:42:11 UTC
Dracvlad wrote:
Posting in a CODE and HTFU posters all looking very stupid thread thanks to DMC detailing a GM's post that refuted all their posts and of course their own hang ups. ShockedRollLol




But WE are the ones who are toxic, according to the gankers.

And elitists too. We're The Toxic Elitists. We should get jackets made.

Bring back DEEEEP Space!
Yebo Lakatosh
Brutor Tribe
Minmatar Republic
#126 - 2017-04-29 16:50:01 UTC  |  Edited by: Yebo Lakatosh
Thank you for the encouraging words Drac, but I still have a long way to go before I can claim that Honorable Title.


So were were we? Ahh yeah, there is that ambigous rule, ending with a CCP note stating that they will not clarify it any further. And there is a fellow claiming that the gankers and other malignant elements (who's accounts hangs on the ballance of understanding such rules) misunderstood it. Good to know that you guys care of their assets!

Though since I've yet to see either DMC or Drac boasting about how cool gankers they are, I'll consider CODE more reliable in such matters.

Elite F1 pilot since YC119, incarnate of honor, integrity and tidi.
Dracvlad
Taishi Combine
Astral Alliance
#127 - 2017-04-29 18:06:02 UTC
Yebo Lakatosh wrote:
Thank you for the encouraging words Drac, but I still have a long way to go before I can claim that Honorable Title.


So were were we? Ahh yeah, there is that ambigous rule, ending with a CCP note stating that they will not clarify it any further. And there is a fellow claiming that the gankers and other malignant elements (who's accounts hangs on the ballance of understanding such rules) misunderstood it. Good to know that you guys care of their assets!

Though since I've yet to see either DMC or Drac boasting about how cool gankers they are, I'll consider CODE more reliable in such matters.


It would be better that you did not change what people say and then make a comment, it just makes you look very untrustworthy in terms of opinions.

I would rather things were clear cut, because it is unfair for people to be affected by differing interpretations depending on the GM, though I feel the ambiguity is left more as an ability to blow up people for real game reasons.

Like many people I feel that ganking as a game play is fine in Eve, my issue is more to do with the ease, for example you do not see me complain about ganking of miners and that is because I judge that the balance is fine, people having an option to get into something more difficult and take a yield hit or something that can be killed and more yield. I only complained when all ships had the tank of a wet paper bag.

I don't like the bumping mechanism in terms of freighter ganking because it is total stale and boring play for the freighter pilot and makes a mockery of the concept of a counter, if the only counter is dock up and log off then we have an issue and that is the case.

But on the other side of things I am not a fan of this all powerful CONCORD, but anyway, one can discuss these issues with rational people, but sadly the Eve forums is hardly the place for it.

Anyway o7

When the going gets tough the Gankers get their CSM rep to change mechanics in their favour.

Blocked: Teckos Pech, Sonya Corvinus, baltec1, Shae Tadaruwa, Wander Prian, Daichi Yamato, Jonah Gravenstein, Merin Ryskin, Linus Gorp
Jonah Gravenstein
Machiavellian Space Bastards
#128 - 2017-04-29 18:22:01 UTC  |  Edited by: Jonah Gravenstein
Dracvlad wrote:
Yebo Lakatosh wrote:
Thank you for the encouraging words Drac, but I still have a long way to go before I can claim that Honorable Title.


So were were we? Ahh yeah, there is that ambigous rule, ending with a CCP note stating that they will not clarify it any further. And there is a fellow claiming that the gankers and other malignant elements (who's accounts hangs on the ballance of understanding such rules) misunderstood it. Good to know that you guys care of their assets!

Though since I've yet to see either DMC or Drac boasting about how cool gankers they are, I'll consider CODE more reliable in such matters.


It would be better that you did not change what people say and then make a comment, it just makes you look very untrustworthy in terms of opinions.
It's still better than not knowing what you're talking about, and when people pull you up on it claiming that any errors were simply a deliberate act in order to test the knowledge of others, lets not go in to what you base your judgement of the opinions and knowledge of others on.

Quote:
I would rather things were clear cut, because it is unfair for people to be affected by differing interpretations depending on the GM, though I feel the ambiguity is left more as an ability to blow up people for real game reasons.
If it were clear cut then people would push that boundary to the extreme, having it in a grey area means people think twice about it just in case they cross it.

Quote:
Like many people I feel that ganking as a game play is fine in Eve, my issue is more to do with the ease, for example you do not see me complain about ganking of miners and that is because I judge that the balance is fine, people having an option to get into something more difficult and take a yield hit or something that can be killed and more yield. I only complained when all ships had the tank of a wet paper bag.
Pre buff barges were fine in terms of tank, if you actually fitted one.

Quote:
I don't like the bumping mechanism in terms of freighter ganking because it is total stale and boring play for the freighter pilot and makes a mockery of the concept of a counter, if the only counter is dock up and log off then we have an issue and that is the case.
Except that's not the only counter, and you damn well know it.

In the beginning there was nothing, which exploded.

New Player FAQ

Feyd's Survival Pack
Herzog Wolfhammer
Sigma Special Tactics Group
#129 - 2017-04-29 19:32:25 UTC
Benje en Divalone wrote:
Cade Windstalker wrote:
It's possible Eve would be a more generally popular game if it was less punishing and if High Sec was "safe" as opposed to "safer". I find that somewhat unlikely though, and the only way to find out is to introduce a change that is almost guaranteed to drive off a large portion of the existing player-base.

This is a player base that has been loyal for years, and is heavily invested in the game as it exists right now. Messing with this in any substantial way is not a good idea, and especially not in the kind of sudden changes OP is ranting about.

"Safe" games are boring. On the flip side wasting my time is extremely irritating.

Most PVE players that I know welcome and actively seek a challenge. What irks us to no end is somebody coming to waste our time. Most other games call this griefing. That ganked metric has been debunked several times already. Even if true all it says is that PVP players like PVP (um, duh?).

Before you get your knickers in a twist I think that making hi-sec a PVP free zone is an awful idea and for the most part hi-sec is reasonably safe enough to be attractive to PVE players. Of course in my perspective there are a couple of glaring exceptions.

The consequences for suicide ganking are not harsh enough to prevent what I and what I suspect most PVE focused players consider grief play. Unfortunately I do not have a good answer how to solve that without damaging the flavor of EVE. Maybe if there was some alternative that made hi-sec piracy viable I could point in that direction.

Wardecs are a bigger problem and one that's actively harming the retention of PvE players. Out of the last nine weeks my main's corp was wardec'd only one made any legitimate effort the rest were tradehub killboard padding (griefing). The week with the real threat was mildly amusing for an evening but the rest was pretty lame (station games). Spent most of it playing an alt or operating elsewhere.

A good indicator of player retention is guild participation. The hands-down best way for a PVE player to deal with a wardec is to drop corp, log out or dock up. Wardecs actively discourage PVE folks from social engagement. Any mechanic that encourages not playing directly harms retention.

There needs to be a way for a corporation to exempt themselves from wardecs without making it crushingly expensive for small corps. Tie it to POS ownership or make it consensual or something.

Here's another statistic for you: Players that exclusively PVE or PVP are rare. Most MMO players at least dabble in many aspects. Most PvE players will voluntarily engage in PvP eventually but if don't let them dictate the pace at which they do it they'll just find another game that doesn't insist on wasting their time.

After all that hot air I am not advocating any change unless CCP sees the need for it. They seem to be struggling with how to appeal to PvE players and mostly I think that's because they don't understand what motivates us. What I wrote above is my small attempt to give some insight.

"PvP is the most rewarding" -- CCP_Ghost. Thanks for the spit-take Lol

Cade Windstalker wrote:
Ever heard of Star Wars Galaxies? That is literally the case study for why massive shifts in your game's core gameplay are a *terrible* idea no matter how justified you may feel in the changes in question. If you actually look at a lot of what was changed there it made a lot of sense. It was going to do exactly the sort of things you're talking about here. Open up the game to more players, make it more accessible, address a lot of things that may have been seen as a barrier to a new player, ect.

It utterly killed the game and was a contributing factor in the dev behind the change's suicide.


http://kotaku.com/5057189/star-wars-galaxies-designer-jeff-freeman-dies

"Freeman's brother tells the Escapist that 'personal issues', not the fury SWG players were at the root cause of his decision to take his own life."

SWG was one of those cult classic games. Very loyal but very small fan base. Once WoW demonstrated the revenue potential of MMO's "very small" became "very uninteresting" to the money folks.


My observation over the years is that while we can debate ganking and PVP until the heat death of the universe, the biggest driving force in the game was PVe.

It was only the making of PVe too easy (I'm looking at you, exploration) and addition of huge ISK faucets that, once mastered, lost their challenge, that the game began to stagnate. Back in the heydays the game was very lively and yes a lot of people did missions and such, but they have a general interest in the game.

That's the sad part really: the game is the best it has ever been, and the developers and designers have done a great job. But like the agent's point in The Matrix: you cannot have it too easy for people. Making the game too easy (for PVe and PVP alike) will drive players off. Doing it lopsided, like making it easy for gankers one year, then making it easier for mission runners the next, then haulers the next, then fixing years later that which was imbalanced, only screws one play style at a time. Then we argue about buffs and nerfs and fail to see the big picture.

Bring back DEEEEP Space!
Lokitroy11 Blackmages
Blank-Space
Northern Coalition.
#130 - 2017-04-29 21:58:12 UTC
I don't know a lot about ganking. But I feel that the problems is simple. Move to null. From there on. It won be ganking. Its going to be PvP. Then you can blame it more on yourself if you get caught and stop blaming the people that catch you. I've been caught hauling expensive stuff and the good way of fixing it was simple. Pay someone else to die with your stuff "haulers channel" they F*** up. You make cash.




But really. Ganking might not be profitable after you get the loot and you divide it. But when you look at zkillboard and see all those kills they get. They sacrifice 40 mill stealth bomber or a 2 mill catalyst. How is that a risky ? The guy hauling prob lost 5 bill easy. I am waiting for a code or goon guy to reply to this saying "his fault haulin that much" but isn't that the point of a freighter?to haul large quantities of stuff. Idk where I was going with this honestly...hi how you doing?
Ima Wreckyou
The Conference Elite
Safety.
#131 - 2017-04-29 21:59:36 UTC
Dracvlad wrote:
Posting in a CODE and HTFU posters all looking very stupid thread thanks to DMC detailing a GM's post that refuted all their posts and of course their own hang ups. ShockedRollLol

What post was that? The one he did not even read himself?

Evil RatKid
Cade Windstalker
#132 - 2017-04-30 00:42:04 UTC
Herzog Wolfhammer wrote:
My observation over the years is that while we can debate ganking and PVP until the heat death of the universe, the biggest driving force in the game was PVe.

It was only the making of PVe too easy (I'm looking at you, exploration) and addition of huge ISK faucets that, once mastered, lost their challenge, that the game began to stagnate. Back in the heydays the game was very lively and yes a lot of people did missions and such, but they have a general interest in the game.

That's the sad part really: the game is the best it has ever been, and the developers and designers have done a great job. But like the agent's point in The Matrix: you cannot have it too easy for people. Making the game too easy (for PVe and PVP alike) will drive players off. Doing it lopsided, like making it easy for gankers one year, then making it easier for mission runners the next, then haulers the next, then fixing years later that which was imbalanced, only screws one play style at a time. Then we argue about buffs and nerfs and fail to see the big picture.


PvE has never been particularly hard or a major driving force in this game. If anything we have more actually challenging PvE options now than ever.

The reason most people do PvE is to fund their PvP habit, or for some other equally money driven goal. That makes PvE a means to an end not a driving force in the game.
Cybertherion
Doomheim
#133 - 2017-04-30 00:53:30 UTC  |  Edited by: Cybertherion
I dunno about that. Given the game's social toxicity, a lot of peeps may just PvE because morons etc. I agree the PvE should be more engaging (harder?) however, but since I enjoy PvP and just generally being a horrible comedian I can't really comment on its in-game mechanics other than the plexing music SUCKS.

I only post here if EvE is offline. Which means my posts are never well timed.

EAT KRABSAK.
Galaxy Pig
New Order Logistics
CODE.
#134 - 2017-04-30 19:42:01 UTC
DeMichael Crimson wrote:
Galaxy Pig wrote:
DeMichael Crimson wrote:


Blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah.

Blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah.

Blah.

DMC


In every. Damn. Thread.

Just skip over it, if there's anything of substance in there, it's not worth wading through his verbosity to find it.

Hahaha, your little sarcastic comments and misquoting is nothing more than rage tears.

Thanks for showing us just how butthurt you really are.


DMC


You expressed that thought in less than five paragraphs... We're all proud of you!

Highsec is owned by players now. Systems 0.5-1.0 are New Order Territory. All miners and other residents of Highsec must obey The Code. Mining without a permit is dangerous and harmful to the EVE community. See www.MinerBumping.com
Expendable Unit
Science and Trade Institute
Caldari State
#135 - 2017-05-01 14:31:24 UTC
Lothros Andastar wrote:
Highsec is more dangerous than nullsec


Only in Eve online. Safe = Not Safe. Good = Bad. Dishonest = Honest.
ISD Fractal
ISD Community Communications Liaisons
ISD Alliance
#136 - 2017-05-01 15:19:24 UTC
Forum Rules of Conduct wrote:

27. Off-topic posting is prohibited.

Off-topic posting is permitted within reason, as sometimes a single comment may color or lighten the tone of discussion. However, excessive posting of off-topic remarks in an attempt to derail a thread may result in the thread being locked, or a forum warning being issued to the off-topic poster.
#

This thread has gone from a simple question about Concord mechanics to who knows what. I'm going to close this thread down now.

ISD Fractal

Lieutenant

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