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Not enough stuff is being destroyed

Author
Thomas Lot
School of Applied Knowledge
Caldari State
#121 - 2017-04-24 11:44:02 UTC
manus wrote:
Hey. Prices on ships seem to be collapsing. What if there was more incentives to PVP and/or PVE and take more risk?

I can imagine some kind of challenge mode where you ship can only be fitted with Tech 1 stuff. But its a really hard mission? I dont know. What are your ideas? How can we create more incentives for people to risk their stuff?

-edit- maybe its not an issue



Undock and hit F1
Yebo Lakatosh
Brutor Tribe
Minmatar Republic
#122 - 2017-04-24 13:07:07 UTC  |  Edited by: Yebo Lakatosh
Kaeden 3142 wrote:
The harshness of Eve does work against itself . This is because earning ISK takes time; buying game assets takes time; logistics takes time; setting up fits takes time.
Learning stuff takes time and dedication. Getting to know people and their ways takes time and dedication. Making buddies takes t... the hell I know what it takes.

But these can severely reduce the time it takes to do the other things. Besides the time it takes to have fun. That feels to be a constant.

Brigadine Ferathine wrote:
What happens when nobody else wants to grind anything?
The possible profit of grinding raises to insane heights, so they start grinding again.

Elite F1 pilot since YC119, incarnate of honor, integrity and tidi.

Brigadine Ferathine
Presumed Dead Enterprises
Against ALL Authorities.
#123 - 2017-04-24 13:12:33 UTC
Yebo Lakatosh wrote:
Kaeden 3142 wrote:
The harshness of Eve does work against itself . This is because earning ISK takes time; buying game assets takes time; logistics takes time; setting up fits takes time.
Learning stuff takes time and dedication. Getting to know people and their ways takes time and dedication. Making buddies takes t... the hell I know what it takes.

But these can severely reduce the time it takes to do the other things. Besides the time it takes to have fun. That feels to be a constant.

Brigadine Ferathine wrote:
What happens when nobody else wants to grind anything?
The possible profit of grinding raises to insane heights, so they start grinding again.

Bounties are static...
Jenn aSide
Soul Machines
The Initiative.
#124 - 2017-04-24 16:34:44 UTC  |  Edited by: Jenn aSide
Indahmawar Fazmarai wrote:

And here's the day I 100% agree to Jenn aSide on something PvE. CCP doesn't knows PvE players and their attempts to develop PvE just keep showing and telling this essential truth.
`

In case you didn't see this yet. And on a side note, A DEV Talked to me and I wasn't even on Reddit!!!!!
Big smile

CCP Larrikin wrote:
Jenn aSide wrote:
Thank you for posting this and I won't derail you thread beyond this single comment about what you all are doing. I can't speak for Indahmawar Fazmarai as we don't agree on much, but one thing we do agree on is that it seems you guys are making an awful lot of "PVE" content that resembles PVP. I'm a pro-pvp PVE player (ie I like how pvp and pve interact in EVE and I counsel other PVE players to always keep in mind that ship to ship PVP can happen at any time so be aware of it, even embrace it), but I have a problem with the direction you guys seem to be going in. If a PVE player wanted a PVP like experience, we that's what PVP is for.

In other words, some of us like saving the Damsel, or attacking that Pirate Haven for the umpteen-millionth time, or Dreading that Pirate named Scarlett.

I'm sure you guys have internal metrics about what dedicated PVE players do across New Eden, and while I don't know for sure, I'd bet that if you looked at those you'd see a lot of people doing "old" content (like regular mining, anomalies, lvl 4 missions, DED complexes) even when they have access to newer stuff (like Burners, Drifters, Sleepers, incursions, Mining operations etc).
That old content has value because it lets you engineer and experiment with fits and tactics and new approaches (mainly because it is in fact mostly static in nature, you know what it's going to be every time you experience it). The newer PVE like Burners and Drifters and Mining Operations and it seems these new shipyards involve a higher potential for ship loss and act more like PVP, which actually forces PVE players down a narrower path than the "old" PVE does.

I know some vocal people have been saying for a long time how PVE should work like PVP, but not all of us enjoy that kind of thing, there is real value in the old style PVE that shouldn't be forgotten.


Hi Jenn, thankyou for your post. It is a little off topic, but I think its valuable to answer it.

TL;DR: All new PvE content won't be PvP-like.

I understand where your coming from. Sometimes, you just want to watch Netflix, or chat with your mates, and only half pay attention while running some Sanctums, or running The Blockade.
And yes, much of our new content has had a considerably higher difficulty cap than previous content. I can assure you we recognize the value of both.

We understand the importance of 'low engagement content', and we believe we can deliver that while staying true to our push for player-like-NPCs. We can use a couple of different strategies at lowering their power level. Low skills, poor tactics, bad fittings, providing you with allies or handicapping them in other ways.

Additionally, there is the question of Mastery. I've spoken about this at round-tables at Fanfest and EVE Vegas. Players have Mastered content, for example, the Mission system. They've spent the time to find the right ships, skills, fits and tactics to optimize that content. Changing that content has a cost, it reduces or removes the investment someone has made in mastering a system. This is a large part of what attracts many people to EVE Online, complex systems to master. This doesn't mean we'll never change missions, or any other system, but we do recognize the cost it has. And sometimes, this Master is just kinda bad...its not optimization and player skill, its just figuring out the game system (i.e. mission blitzing).

Lastly, no matter how hard we try, I doubt we'll ever get to the standards of player flown ships. Theoretically, its possible, but we can't have a super computer to run every NPC in the game :) And, there is just mental difference between knowing their is another person controlling the ship your killing (or getting killed by) than a computer.


Much of the push for adding the Mining Ops, and Blood Raider Shipyards has less to do with the specific PvE content and much more to do with the tools we're creating. How NPC's chose their targets and maneuver around the battlefield. NPCs respecting EWar resistances, or being effected by sensor dampeners and energy neutralizers. NPC's using capacitor when they activate a webifier or repairer.
We're creating these tools at the highest possible difficulty level, trying to replicate PvP as much as possible. Ensuring these tools are rock solid. But these tools will be very useful for lower-intensity PvE as well. A Rifter fit with Civilian autocannons still needs to find the right range to orbit its target at, and respond appropriately when you use a Tracking Disruptor on it. We're striving for internally consistent PvE.

We want to provide a variety of PvE and PvPvE (which is probably where the Blood Raider Shipyards fall) for EVE Online. Casual, High Risk-High Reward, Group Based, Solo, and everything in between.
Fish Hunter
Center for Advanced Studies
Gallente Federation
#125 - 2017-04-24 17:09:46 UTC
Othran wrote:
Fish Hunter wrote:
The Goons have no reason to move from Delve and the Russians have no reason to move from Drone Lands. Every entity is entrenched and aside from someone starting a raze campaign nothing big is going to go down in Nullsec.


I have a feeling of deja vue to the max Roll

Long time since Fortress Delve BoB days.....

Everything you think can't happen now Fish Hunter has happened before. Many times. Many many times. Perhaps that's the real trouble....


It always can happen, I just don't see any new groups booming like Goonswarm did when they took on BoB. Who didn't really have the major upper hand until a BoB member defected making a mess when he did.
Jenn aSide
Soul Machines
The Initiative.
#126 - 2017-04-24 17:29:57 UTC
TBH, things in null aren't boring right now. This Jin'talks video is a good primer on the politics going on right now. I wouldn't be surprised in a big war happened over the summer.