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Player Features and Ideas Discussion

 
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Service Module : Scotties Office

Author
Basil Vulpine
Blueprint Haus
Blades of Grass
#1 - 2017-04-19 10:35:07 UTC
So we've had a chance to play a bit with structure in space. They are nice and there's some decent variety needed if you want to min/max things. If you want to build a little city there's one big problem: Instawarps are too damn useful, especially since ships still come out of the new structures too fast and so take ages to align in any other direction. Given the safety that tethering provides after docking I don't think it's imbalanced to speed up the warp.

What benefit does it allow? Well for starters if I'm building a small cluster of refinery + ECs I don't have to put them all in a single straight line. I can make a nice compact cluster in 3 dimensions and not hear cursing every time somebody undocks a freighter. It also means that FCs can undock a fleet and not have to worry about it bumping off of the structure when he calls an align prior to warping off, he can just warp off instead. Yes it's an advantage for the defender but it's an advantage that requires them to undock. It's an advantage that gets them in to a fight faster without actually influencing the fight itself. This can be reasonably cheap to run as I see it as a QoL improvement with limited impact.


In my simplistic view implementation could consist of:
Stats wise probably pitch it similar to a reprocessing facility but with a running cost discount for refineries and ECs.
For everybody that undocks the ship starts off at 75% of maximum speed. If they then issue a warp or bridge command while tethered the structure applies a non-aggressing 90% web which doesn't break tether. If it was an aggressing web it would probably want some kind of exemption option.

If it looks overpowered then it could be limited to only providing the instawarp webs between structures that have it installed. This however is likely trickier than it appears since I expect most people are warping to BMs near the undock rather than to the tether edge that a "warp to structure" leaves you at.
Alderson Point
Federal Navy Academy
Gallente Federation
#2 - 2017-04-19 12:17:38 UTC  |  Edited by: Alderson Point
Basil Vulpine wrote:
So we've had a chance to play a bit with structure in space. They are nice and there's some decent variety needed if you want to min/max things. If you want to build a little city there's one big problem: Instawarps are too damn useful, especially since ships still come out of the new structures too fast and so take ages to align in any other direction. Given the safety that tethering provides after docking I don't think it's imbalanced to speed up the warp.

What benefit does it allow? Well for starters if I'm building a small cluster of refinery + ECs I don't have to put them all in a single straight line. I can make a nice compact cluster in 3 dimensions and not hear cursing every time somebody undocks a freighter. It also means that FCs can undock a fleet and not have to worry about it bumping off of the structure when he calls an align prior to warping off, he can just warp off instead. Yes it's an advantage for the defender but it's an advantage that requires them to undock. It's an advantage that gets them in to a fight faster without actually influencing the fight itself. This can be reasonably cheap to run as I see it as a QoL improvement with limited impact.


In my simplistic view implementation could consist of:
Stats wise probably pitch it similar to a reprocessing facility but with a running cost discount for refineries and ECs.
For everybody that undocks the ship starts off at 75% of maximum speed. If they then issue a warp or bridge command while tethered the structure applies a non-aggressing 90% web which doesn't break tether. If it was an aggressing web it would probably want some kind of exemption option.

If it looks overpowered then it could be limited to only providing the instawarp webs between structures that have it installed. This however is likely trickier than it appears since I expect most people are warping to BMs near the undock rather than to the tether edge that a "warp to structure" leaves you at.



Can you not stop the ship whilst in tether range? And then your base align speed is available? Or use an instaundock? Or orbit the structure staying in tether until you are out of the line of a bubble or camper? And you can look outside before undocking, so there should be no surprises.

I am not sure what your suggestion cures?
Cade Windstalker
#3 - 2017-04-19 14:22:27 UTC
FYI the whole reason you leave a structure at full speed is to get you off the undock so you don't automatically bump when trying to warp back through the station.

Also, fun fact, webbing a ship going the wrong way won't actually speed up its align, just like it won't speed up the align of a ship that isn't moving and is webbed before it starts aligning. The way webs work is they reduce your max speed, this pushes you into warp instantly if you were already going fast enough in the right direction to warp after the web's effect is applied.

If you're trying to warp back through a station that just kicked you out though then you're already going too fast the wrong direction, so you need to slow down and then accelerate back the other way, so the web being applied doesn't actually help you much if at all.
Old Pervert
Perkone
Caldari State
#4 - 2017-04-19 16:20:03 UTC
I'd be okay with having a tether increase ship agility by 10x or something like that... as mentioned the fact that they tether makes them invulnerable anyways. Warping off faster would help clear busy lanes.

That said, I'd restrict the tether agility bonus to things that can DOCK there, so as to prevent supers from getting a quick align out of an astro or something.

I also do not know what effect this would have on bumping... but if it makes bumping carriers off of an astro easier, I'm all for it.
Frostys Virpio
State War Academy
Caldari State
#5 - 2017-04-19 16:28:50 UTC
The tether range is large enough for anything to slowboat away a bit then turn around if your next warp point is across the structure model. No need for a change on that. Pilot your ship and it will all work.
Basil Vulpine
Blueprint Haus
Blades of Grass
#6 - 2017-04-19 16:36:54 UTC
Alderson Point wrote:

Can you not stop the ship whilst in tether range? And then your base align speed is available? Or use an instaundock? Or orbit the structure staying in tether until you are out of the line of a bubble or camper? And you can look outside before undocking, so there should be no surprises.

I am not sure what your suggestion cures?


It's a quality of Life thing. With multiple specialised structures comes a common desire to move stuff between them, in bulk. Neither industrials nor freighters are what you'd consider agile. At the moment you can either
- put all of your structures in a straight line so you can instawarp between them or
- spread them out a bit to look more like an industrial hub but live with slow warps between structures.

Currently the easy fix is to asset safety things from the refinery to the construction facility and just wait for it to arrive, it just needs some advance planning. While incredibly handy, and with a slight risk in case you forget to reclaim the stuff, it doesn't feel satisfying to use an NPC mechanic to teleport stuff between structures. Having everything in a straight line works but is pretty dull.

The main aim of the suggestion is to allow things to be spread out more rather than all in one straight line. Bubbles and campers wouldn't really be changed - currently if they are on the right grid when you undock they catch you, otherwise you are instantly in warp to elsewhere. The same would be true afterwards. Anybody who warps without checking for hazards can still become a KM which is as it should be.
Basil Vulpine
Blueprint Haus
Blades of Grass
#7 - 2017-04-19 16:38:48 UTC
Frostys Virpio wrote:
The tether range is large enough for anything to slowboat away a bit then turn around if your next warp point is across the structure model. No need for a change on that. Pilot your ship and it will all work.


Fleets bouncing off of structures during aligns is a minor point which is why I suggested the fuel discount applies to non-citadels. The overall suggestion should've been clear that this is a QoL time saving feature rather than making things easier.
Frostys Virpio
State War Academy
Caldari State
#8 - 2017-04-19 16:45:58 UTC
Basil Vulpine wrote:
Alderson Point wrote:

Can you not stop the ship whilst in tether range? And then your base align speed is available? Or use an instaundock? Or orbit the structure staying in tether until you are out of the line of a bubble or camper? And you can look outside before undocking, so there should be no surprises.

I am not sure what your suggestion cures?


It's a quality of Life thing. With multiple specialised structures comes a common desire to move stuff between them, in bulk. Neither industrials nor freighters are what you'd consider agile. At the moment you can either
- put all of your structures in a straight line so you can instawarp between them or
- spread them out a bit to look more like an industrial hub but live with slow warps between structures.

Currently the easy fix is to asset safety things from the refinery to the construction facility and just wait for it to arrive, it just needs some advance planning. While incredibly handy, and with a slight risk in case you forget to reclaim the stuff, it doesn't feel satisfying to use an NPC mechanic to teleport stuff between structures. Having everything in a straight line works but is pretty dull.

The main aim of the suggestion is to allow things to be spread out more rather than all in one straight line. Bubbles and campers wouldn't really be changed - currently if they are on the right grid when you undock they catch you, otherwise you are instantly in warp to elsewhere. The same would be true afterwards. Anybody who warps without checking for hazards can still become a KM which is as it should be.


Why would you asset-safety it when you can just haul it while being tethered 100% of the time you are not in warp?