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Let strategic cruisers refit in space without a mobile depot
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Wander Prian
Nosferatu Security Foundation
#81 - 2017-04-20 13:58:40 UTC
Rhyme Bittern wrote:
Wander Prian wrote:
in order to balance this "fun" mechanic, CCP will likely make you sit in space for 2-5 minutes and you are unable to do anything while the timer is running.

One of the reasons I see for having this thread is so CCP becomes aware of our actual needs and wishes. I hope they find balancing mechanisms that do not involve hindrance of gameplay.


1) There is no need for this. Only you wishing for easier PVE

2) There is no way in hell this kind of ability would not be balanced by a timer you'd have to wait out in space, sitting still, while visible. The timer would likely be at least as long as the time it takes to anchor a mobile depot.

If you want examples how CCP balancing works, look at freighters or capitals.

What you seem to want is a tactical cruiser, that is able to change into whatever is needed with no meaningful choices.

Wormholer for life.
Rhyme Bittern
Imperial Shipment
Amarr Empire
#82 - 2017-04-20 14:07:47 UTC
Wander Prian wrote:
There is no need for this. Only you wishing for easier PVE

On the contrary, I want harder pve. And I want the ship that will let me attempt it.
Teckos Pech
Hogyoku
Goonswarm Federation
#83 - 2017-04-20 21:57:59 UTC
Rhyme Bittern wrote:
Wander Prian wrote:
in order to balance this "fun" mechanic, CCP will likely make you sit in space for 2-5 minutes and you are unable to do anything while the timer is running.

One of the reasons I see for having this thread is so CCP becomes aware of our actual needs and wishes. I hope they find balancing mechanisms that do not involve hindrance of gameplay.


Needs and wishes are kind of irrelevant when it comes to balance issues.

"The curious task of economics is to demonstrate to men how little they really know about what they imagine they can design."--Friedrich August von Hayek

8 Golden Rules for EVE Online
James Zimmer
Republic University
Minmatar Republic
#84 - 2017-04-20 22:04:37 UTC  |  Edited by: James Zimmer
Rhyme Bittern wrote:
The point of t3 strategic cruisers is not power, but versatility. As noted by devs, they should not be better than dedicated ships, but they should be able to fill many of their various roles.

In the coming t3 balance, many of the current abilities and stats of t3 crusers will be nerfed, and rightfully so. However, their ability to fill multiple roles should be emphasised. One of the ways to do this should be to let strategic cruisers refit in space directly from their cargo bays, without having to use a mobile depot and the such. This will help the lone wolves using them immensely, because without a mobile depot their cargo bays will become free to carry alternative fits. Timers can be utilised to make sure this is not exploited.

What say you?


I'm all about simplifying things that require a lot of button clicks when they can take fewer button clicks, and this makes even more sense for a ship that's supposed to emphasize versatility. If I could ask for anything, I would say.

1. The ship must be stopped to begin refitting.
2. After you begin refitting, your ship can't do anything for 45 seconds. No weapons, no shield boosters, nothing. The time is lower than the 60 second mobile depot, because otherwise, this is actually a nerf in a way.
3. The game uses pre-refit stats until the refit is complete (to prevent people from instantly throwing on a stack of armor plates and shield extenders to extend their life).
4. There is a cool animation that shows the refit happening.
Wander Prian
Nosferatu Security Foundation
#85 - 2017-04-20 22:15:30 UTC
James Zimmer wrote:
Rhyme Bittern wrote:
The point of t3 strategic cruisers is not power, but versatility. As noted by devs, they should not be better than dedicated ships, but they should be able to fill many of their various roles.

In the coming t3 balance, many of the current abilities and stats of t3 crusers will be nerfed, and rightfully so. However, their ability to fill multiple roles should be emphasised. One of the ways to do this should be to let strategic cruisers refit in space directly from their cargo bays, without having to use a mobile depot and the such. This will help the lone wolves using them immensely, because without a mobile depot their cargo bays will become free to carry alternative fits. Timers can be utilised to make sure this is not exploited.

What say you?


I'm all about simplifying things that require a lot of button clicks when they can take fewer button clicks, and this makes even more sense for a ship that's supposed to emphasize versatility. If I could ask for anything, I would say.

1. The ship must be stopped to begin refitting.
2. After you begin refitting, your ship can't do anything for 45 seconds. No weapons, no shield boosters, nothing. The time is lower than the 60 second mobile depot, because otherwise, this is actually a nerf in a way.
3. The game uses pre-refit stats until the refit is complete (to prevent people from instantly throwing on a stack of armor plates and shield extenders to extend their life).
4. There is a cool animation that shows the refit happening.



2) The timer would be longer as it's a special case thing
3) Probably not possible due to coding
4)100% not possible due to game-coding.

Wormholer for life.
James Zimmer
Republic University
Minmatar Republic
#86 - 2017-04-20 22:34:27 UTC
Wander Prian wrote:



2) The timer would be longer as it's a special case thing
3) Probably not possible due to coding
4)100% not possible due to game-coding.


2. Difference of opinion, but you could do the same time or longer if you wanted
3. Actually, this is extremely possible, and probably easy. Your armor repper runs its entire cycle on one stat and then updates your armor stat at the end of the cycle, this is essentially the same thing, just updating more stats.
4. An animation is extremely doable. There are animations when you go into warp, or go into bastion. Even when you lock onto another ship there's an animation as your guns rotate to track that ship. You would just need tear down and build up animations for every subsystem in the game. It's a decent amount of work, but not at all impossible.
Cade Windstalker
#87 - 2017-04-20 22:35:49 UTC
Wander Prian wrote:
James Zimmer wrote:
I'm all about simplifying things that require a lot of button clicks when they can take fewer button clicks, and this makes even more sense for a ship that's supposed to emphasize versatility. If I could ask for anything, I would say.

1. The ship must be stopped to begin refitting.
2. After you begin refitting, your ship can't do anything for 45 seconds. No weapons, no shield boosters, nothing. The time is lower than the 60 second mobile depot, because otherwise, this is actually a nerf in a way.
3. The game uses pre-refit stats until the refit is complete (to prevent people from instantly throwing on a stack of armor plates and shield extenders to extend their life).
4. There is a cool animation that shows the refit happening.



2) The timer would be longer as it's a special case thing
3) Probably not possible due to coding
4)100% not possible due to game-coding.


#1 is also not actually possible due to coding, at least not in any meaningful sense.

You can set your intended velocity to zero, and it will drop until CCP.Round gets bored and says it's zero, but once you've moved your ship you have a vector and a speed in space.

Strictly speaking you could say "Velocity < 1" or whatever, but that would still make this worth less than a mobile depot in most cases, so yeah not a fan.

Oh and none of Zimmer's suggestions here line up well with current refitting mechanics, at all.
James Zimmer
Republic University
Minmatar Republic
#88 - 2017-04-20 22:49:19 UTC  |  Edited by: James Zimmer
Cade Windstalker wrote:


#1 is also not actually possible due to coding, at least not in any meaningful sense.

You can set your intended velocity to zero, and it will drop until CCP.Round gets bored and says it's zero, but once you've moved your ship you have a vector and a speed in space.

Strictly speaking you could say "Velocity < 1" or whatever, but that would still make this worth less than a mobile depot in most cases, so yeah not a fan.

Oh and none of Zimmer's suggestions here line up well with current refitting mechanics, at all.


Ok Cade, you got me Smile I should have said less than a certain, low speed, or thrown a number out there like 5 m/s or something. However, we're not writing the code here, just ideas, and "stopped" conveys the idea just fine, unless the world has suddenly changed to the world of The Giver where we must use "precision of language".

The mechanics I suggested are a bit different than current mechanics, but it's not dramatic, mostly just an added timer, and probably an animation over the module so you know how long you have left. I can't imagine that either of those would be that complicated. Besides, I'm not sure that a bit different is a bad thing. Why not put a time delay on ALL refitting in space? People swapping out guns faster than they can reload those guns always seemed a bit cheesy to me.
Cade Windstalker
#89 - 2017-04-20 23:25:50 UTC
James Zimmer wrote:
Ok Cade, you got me Smile I should have said less than a certain, low speed, or thrown a number out there like 5 m/s or something. However, we're not writing the code here, just ideas, and "stopped" conveys the idea just fine, unless the world has suddenly changed to the world of The Giver where we must use "precision of language".

The mechanics I suggested are a bit different than current mechanics, but it's not dramatic, mostly just an added timer, and probably an animation over the module so you know how long you have left. I can't imagine that either of those would be that complicated. Besides, I'm not sure that a bit different is a bad thing. Why not put a time delay on ALL refitting in space? People swapping out guns faster than they can reload those guns always seemed a bit cheesy to me.


Like I said, it's a fun fact not so much a meaningful objection.

I personally think this whole idea is deeply flawed and OP.

And yes, what you're suggesting would be dramatically different than current mechanics, in that you would have the stats of the ship with those old modules persist while refitting. That would be a *major* change from how it works now. Never mind that you don't take into account things like active vs passive modules and similar.

You can't refit with a weapons timer or while a module is cycling, so you can't refit a gun in lieu of reloading it.
Barrogh Habalu
Imperial Shipment
Amarr Empire
#90 - 2017-04-21 10:16:33 UTC
At one point I've suggested something similar (still have a link to that, quite possibly, a trainwreck of an idea in my signature, loo lazy to remove it).

Tbh I think that at this point CCP already know what they want of T3Cs, so these suggestions are, possibly, too late to the party.

Future of T3 cruisers - multi-tool they aspired to be instead of sledgehammer they have become