EVE General Discussion

At the same time CCP wants to keep SP loss on that hulls. Another "fresh" info. Navies level hull with SP loss, a bit overnerfed don't you think?

Guys please stop this whole: "worse than T2 but with flexibility". If they will be nerfed to the level of navies hulls the choices will be: bring a navy hull or T3C? Not T2 hull or T3C because they will be incomparable. How many times fleets were changing fits after undock, apart from caps which was nerfed? Flexibility of those is overrated, at least in huge fleets. It's already a FCs nightmare from what read and hear.

What would be the point on increasing the signatures on t3c's if they are glorified navy cruisers? Unless they are keeping close to there HP's as is, that's just slow dead ducks in the water.
I don't buy retaining skill point loss if these are glorified navy cruisers. That just doesn't make sense if there are many more more comparable/effective ships.
Are we talking comparable EW to there current iteration?
If your a solo or wh pilot why would you fly one of these over a stratios? If the comparison is navy cruisers, surely the cloaked version is going to be even worse.
I can't see how navy cruiser is a good comparison unless bonuses/roles are really revamped

Jump fatigue is another such example of snowflakes melting down over something that will make the game better.

T3's are belligerently overpowered. It's hilarious when people try to claim otherwise. Likewise "tactical" destroyers.

Its not my job to educate you about EvE but I'll humour you with a question. You get a cookie if you get it right.

In 2016, What battleship sized module had its fitting drastically reduced, had its cap bonuses significantly increased and had a resist to cap drain added that enabled it to he fitted to Tengus making them largely immune to no bonused nueting and enable the Tengu to pump out in excess of 2000 DPS tank with 80 - 90% resists while being cap stable at around 70%??

Its a tough one so I'll give you a few weeks.

While T3C's lack the d-scan immunity, they are used in fleets to replace recon's (both combat- and force -recons) due to their ability to tank much better than any recon.

I think its clear T3C tank will be nowhere near the current magnitude, post-change.

Force Recons would remain specialised covops cyno EWAR cruisers.
Combat Recons would remain specialised DScan immune EWAR cruisers with more combat capacity (albeit less than HAC).

The specialised T2 Force/Combat Recons would still have covert cyno/DScan immunity, and better EWAR bonuses over T3C.

Thus there is no outright overlap.

It may happen that T3Cs still have a stronger tank in some forms than Force Recon/Combat Recon, but that would be offset by less EWAR bonuses at V, SP loss on death, cost and lack of covert cyno/DScan immunity capacity.

CCP also seems to be looking at increasing sigs on T3Cs.

You mean like now or after change because now they can use covert cyno.

So basicalky there's no role for t3c's other than some vague notion of command cruiser? Itll be slower, fatter in sig, loose sp's for no apparent reason, and will not be worth producing as it its material value has it competing with navy cruisers?

I understood the sig increase to compensate for the high buffer/repping abilities they currently have, with specific reference to there use in fleets and the ability to hit and kill the damn things. It probably goes further than that (?) in terms of where they end up, but that's at least what I thought the first level of reasoning was.

If they end up comparable to navy cruisers I'm lost how things like being slow, large sig, loss of sp's, and not comparable to ew of recons or strength of hacs, makes them viable let alone what traits distinguish them other than switching subs?

The comparison with a stratios puts them into pirate class, and if not less viable than a recon.

I guess I'm at a bit of a loss what people see this ship doing that you wouldn't choose a hac or recon or pirate cruiser for

I kind of disagree with these dividing lines here.

It's more like Below Navy, Navy or up to just below T2, or equal to or better than T2, since the ability to combined different roles is going to result in something stronger than the sum of the parts.

Also, even ignoring the combination factor, being less than T2 is significantly different than being equal to them, so that at the very least needs to be distinguished here.




Couple of points to pick out from here.

Command Ship fitted T3Cs still need to not out-perform Command Ships, which was one of the big original problems before the Command Ship rework gave those BC hulls a new lease on life. Just because there's no Cruiser command ship doesn't mean they get an automatic free pass here. Though as long as the boost amounts are lower I don't think we'll have much of an issue here.

The SP required to train into a T3C isn't much greater than that required for a Stratios. The T3C skills are fairly low multiplier and you only need one race's ships trained to fly their T3C while the Stratios requires both Amarr and Gallente skills. I don't think this is a big deal, but I think people are consistently over-estimating how much SP training into a T3C actually takes, especially to get the ship to the point most people fly it at, which is Attack and Defense at 5 and the rest at 4, with the ship skill at 4 until you get it trained to 5 eventually.



They've got a covert subsystem, they'll be able to fit a covert cyno. It's possible CCP will break this rule but I find that somewhat unlikely.

I also think it's going to be harder than you think to balance the subsystems to the point where they're not over-stepping anywhere. Easier than before, certainly, but I doubt this is going to be a one pass and done balance experience.



IMO the introduction of Injectors make it effectively just another ISK cost to running and losing the ship, like an expensive module or a type of ammo that's only lost on ship death.

Agreed on the rigs, here, I think it's mostly to remove frustration factor over having a ship that should be this multitool but suddenly you've got things you need to unscrew in English, Metric, and Imperial Russian units, so you need way more multitools than you think you should...



A lot of people really do want T3Cs to do this though, and have invested into T3C training specifically for use with cloaky doctrines. They're also the only RR bonused ships that can take a Black Ops Jump Bridge, making them extremely useful for any sort of Black Ops drop that expects any kind of return fire.

They don't get the bonus to covert cyno time, so they're not completely eclipsing the Force Recon role by any means. If the combination of Covert Cyno and Nullification is too strong then just make an overriding bonus on the Nullification subsystem that prevents equipping a Covert Cyno.

You could still pull it off by swapping around at that point, but that's a pretty significant trade-off, since you need a depot, the fuel for the cyno, the cyno itself, the other subsystem, and the uninterrupted minute sitting around waiting for the depot to anchor, and you'll either have to do that in the same system as your target and hope they're blind, or do it multiple jumps out and hope there are no bubbles.