EVE General Discussion

I guarantee you CCP is keeping this in mind, but these days it's not too much of a concern. If T3Cs get nerfed for WH PvP then that hits everyone more or less equally and everyone gets chucked into the same pot to make New WH Meta Stew.

The PvE implications might be an issue, but no one uses T3Cs much for WH PvE anymore, it's all dreads and carriers and FAXes along with Rattlesnakes, Marauders, and a few other ships, very few of which are actually T3Cs, at least for group or group-ish content.

And yeah, T3Cs are OP in Wormholes too, it's just that everyone uses the things and they were introduced at the same time, so for WHs it's less of a problem and more of a feature.

Realistically though that just makes the WH meta *more* stale as a result of T3Cs compared to everywhere else, not less so.

I'll be interested how the stealthier options end up stacking up against the stratios and recons.

Given the price of rigs, I have to wonder who will fly around with them in cargo, let alone additional subs. At current prices that's like 120 million working on a set of rigs and 2 subs. One would have to imagine that kind of flexibility would more find its place with refitting through capitals storing them for certain campaigns?

Speaking of rigs and flexibility, I liked the idea raised of specialised rigs, to not only skirt the boundaries of t3d functions, but perhaps lend greater uniqueness to individual ship set ups. I say this as I've had a hard time seeing where they exactly fit given the preceding page discussions.

If CCP wants battleships to fit into small or medium-sized holes, then they need to adjust the mass limitations of the holes, not provide "pocket battleships" in the form of T3C.

HOW TO FIX THE SITUATION:

1) Nerf bejesus out of T3C.

2) Decide what class of ships you want flying in wormholes, and adjust mass limitations accordingly.

The wormhole mass limitations are far more complex than just what you proposed

And the problem is that the mass limits the number of players that can join fights.
Lets take a common size for a wormhole, a E175 which has 2bil kg mass limit.
You can bring 20 battleships or 100 cruisers to a fight, which is better?

20 players can have fun pew pew or 100 players can piupiupiupiu.
Now it comes a political question as a corp that has battleship doctrine can't let everyone join, only 20(best) is accepted.
So in many levels the cruisers are the only option.

You can bling fit anything, that's not unique to T3 Cruisers or even to W-space. W-space people just tend to have enough money to do it consistently and the fights are smaller which makes squeezing more out of each ship more important.

In practice T3Cs are anything but fair. They're OP little monster ships that have deserved nerfs pretty much since day 1, and certainly since the HAC rebalance.

CCP do not owe you anything when they nerf the things you've gotten to abuse the heck out of for the last six or seven years.

When everyone's T3Cs get nerfed then everyone will be on a fairly even playing field because everyone will have been hit with the same nerfs. Wormholes do not needs blingy pwn-mobiles to keep functioning. Go talk to some of your wormhole buddies, former CSMs, major figures in the community, ect. They'll probably say something similar.

4 - is absurd to rebalance to T1, Nay or T2 equivalent. Why not just do away with them altogether.

The proper and logical response is to adjust them to be in line with T3 destroyers. Redo the entire T3C system to have switchable modes like T3D's. Remove subsystems entirely.

Currently T3 are not OP but hey if they must be changed they should be changed to something worthwhile to fly. The only thing OP about T3 (and all the other OP ships like Orthrus etc) is the fitting of BS sized mods which have silly fitting requirements. I can stick 4 battleship sized plates on a cruiser ffs.

Which cruiser?

Quote that, because from fanfest presentation the only nerf so far is increased sig radius, no flatly stated "we will bring them to the level of navies", and so far it is the only viable source of information because it is "fresh". We have no idea where CCP want them. Fozzie and Larrikin didn't share the details.

Equally we have had no info saying they have changed the plan so right now that's what we have to work off. Frankly it also makes the most sense, you cant have them be as good as T2 and you won't see them drop to t1 levels so that means they have to land somewhere between those two levels. That means navy cruiser level.

Not all valid information is "fresh" especially when you're talking about the time scales tiericide has happened on. CCP's original post put T3s at around Navy level but more flexible. CCP seem to have taken this as "Navy level bonuses/stats but more options" and they've targeted the T3Ds *about* there in terms of base stats. The main problem T3Ds have is being quite fast and essentially getting extra bonuses over other hulls while being a size above their primary competitors, Pirate and T2 Frigates.

With the general Cruiser balance, and the various T3 tweaks over the years, we've only seen CCP push the ships towards "not as good as T2" in terms of specialization, and while I agree we've yet to see hard stats so far, everything CCP has said about the T3Cs and their plans for them puts them pretty solidly in the region I noted above.

So while this is certainly speculation, it's pretty well informed speculation and that's a long way from "anything goes" or not having any idea. We have an idea, it's just a fairly vague one, but it's better supported by the available evidence than anything else we've got so far.