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Loan request for Rattlesnake dualboxing

Author
Manbun Scarfbeard
Doomheim
#1 - 2017-04-09 05:20:15 UTC  |  Edited by: Manbun Scarfbeard
Since my previous loan request didn't go through (promises were made, but no real action from the lender's part), I'd like to make an open request.

I've made this alt to dualbox Rattlesnakes in C3s/C4s (currently sitting on 5 million SP and a Rattle hull ready).
My main is in a wormhole corp with a C3 static, large active playerbase during my time of play. The risk of getting ganked is quite minimal with the precautions we take.
Using a single toon in a single Rattler without hole bonuses I can achieve 200-250m isk / hour, training this guy up i'm hoping for a bit more than that (considering i'll be able to run c4 sites + c3 relic/data sites).
I'd need about ~5 more injectors to turn this guy into a Rattler pilot I'd be satisfied with, but I could make do with meta 4 rapid heavies/faction heavy drones in the meantime, but I'd need the gal/cal battleship skills + some shield skills a bit higher to sustain the DPS of the sites i'm looking to run.
I'm looking to speed up the training process, I can buy injectors in-corp for 600m. I'm looking for a loan of 1.2B-1.8b for starters, I should be able to repay you within 2-3 weekends (that's when I have time to play).

I'm looking for an uncollaterized loan, I don't have assets of that value besides the rattles which I'll be using.

Message me if you are interested, interest % is negotiable.
Garen Sobek
Doomheim
#2 - 2017-04-09 06:19:49 UTC
If you can currently earn 200M isk an hour why not just earn the 1.2B since it would take you less than a day?
Manbun Scarfbeard
Doomheim
#3 - 2017-04-09 06:26:03 UTC  |  Edited by: Manbun Scarfbeard
Limited play time, I'd like to minimize the amount of time I spend ratting in the long run, plus maximize what I earn during the time I do rat.

Edit: Basically, I don't want to spend 5+ hours shooting rats at sub-optimal isk/hour when I could pay a little extra on a loan and earn an additional 100m/hour right after the loan arrives.
ScanAlt
Doomheim
#4 - 2017-04-09 14:03:55 UTC
Get a loan from your corp?
Manbun Scarfbeard
Doomheim
#5 - 2017-04-09 14:25:09 UTC  |  Edited by: Manbun Scarfbeard
ScanAlt wrote:
Get a loan from your corp?

I've only been in corp for a few months, I don't want to appear needy / make a bad impression. I'd rather have an outside loan.
Also, we've recently fended off an eviction attempt, so everyone's wallets are a bit thin.

Some offers have rolled in in the meantime, I'm waiting on a few more offers then I'll go with the most reasonable.
Obsidian Blacke
Viziam
Amarr Empire
#6 - 2017-04-09 19:27:09 UTC  |  Edited by: Obsidian Blacke
It sounds like you're violating one of the principal rules of eve, which is don't fly something you can't afford to lose. Even if you think your wormhole is safe, what's your plan to pay off the loan if your Rattlesnakes get blown up before you farm back the ISK?
Manbun Scarfbeard
Doomheim
#7 - 2017-04-09 21:02:17 UTC  |  Edited by: Manbun Scarfbeard
Obsidian Blacke wrote:
It sounds like you're violating one of the principal rules of eve, which is don't fly something you can't afford to lose. Even if you think your wormhole is safe, what's your plan to pay off the loan if your Rattlesnakes get blown up before you farm back the ISK?

My fits are quite cheap, with the dualbox isk/hour I approximated i can make the price of a single Rattler back in 2-3 hours.
Even if I lose 1 Rattler (you have to be really bad to lose 2), I can farm back the cost of the other ship which would only mean a minor delay to my investor.
Cheaper Rattlers mean higher SP investment to achieve similar results to an expensive one, which is why I'm dumping isk into skill injectors rather than on modules. You can lose your expensive modules during a gank, but you can't lose SP (unless T3C, you know what i mean though).
I have 2 Rattlesnakes ready to go, I just need the SP on this toon to not die to the NPCs when they target it.
We don't really get ganked, we are the ones ganking people. It's easy to know what to do to avoid that when it's what you do yourself on a regular basis, and see what it is that foils ganks in the first place. (By ganking I don't mean "CODE blowing up Ventures" style of ganking, obviously) We also scan our chain out properly, it's a bit different than being a daytripper.

I hope my answer was sufficient.
cisea
Aliastra
Gallente Federation
#8 - 2017-04-10 12:03:39 UTC
I dont understand this. You answer the questions with "farm the isk to repay" yet your state "limited play time". If you can just farm the isk then why not farm for the rattle?

If you dont want to seem needy I doubt coming here was a better option.

What guarentes can you provide, in your limited playing time and outside of "farm the isk" (something that solves this whole mess) can you provide for loosing these assets?

I still cant wrap around "Farm to repay" yet Farm to pay is not an option. What guarantees do you have to offer that you wont have even limited time to play, you wont be booted from corp, and you wont loose the assets?

Please understand what you are asking is extremely high risk. You have also never explained what I get out of this for forking over 1.8Billion isk (or I at least missed it).
Manbun Scarfbeard
Doomheim
#9 - 2017-04-10 12:24:59 UTC
cisea wrote:
I dont understand this. You answer the questions with "farm the isk to repay" yet your state "limited play time". If you can just farm the isk then why not farm for the rattle?

If I have 3-5-5 hours to play (fri-sat-sun), and i rat 7-8, i'd rather be making 350m-400m isk/hour (minus warp times, hole rolling, hole quality) than 200-250m isk/hour (minus same stuff), even if it means I'll have to fork interest over to someone 1 month from now.

I don't get why you want me to bend over backwards for assurances and failsafes. My assurance and failsafe is staying safe in the first place, and how even if things go wrong I'm at worst down only one Rattlesnake.
The average ganking situation would be a 10-20 man rescue fleet bailing me out in the next 3 minutes, and if that isn't something backing me up i'm not ratting in the first place (rare occourence). Breaking Rattlers is hard, there's ample time for the cavalry to arrive.
And having proper hole control during bearing means that I know well before **** goes down that something is coming my way.

Also, in my first post I expressed that I'm looking for offers where you explain your terms, and I'll choose the most favourable.
cisea
Aliastra
Gallente Federation
#10 - 2017-04-10 12:37:13 UTC
Manbun Scarfbeard wrote:

I don't get why you want me to bend over backwards for assurances and failsafes.


Because you're asking for a loan with zero collateral.

Manbun Scarfbeard wrote:
Also, in my first post I expressed that I'm looking for offers where you explain your terms, and I'll choose the most favourable.


Has it ever occurred to you, peoples terms are the answers to these questions?
Manbun Scarfbeard
Doomheim
#11 - 2017-04-10 12:46:55 UTC  |  Edited by: Manbun Scarfbeard
cisea wrote:

Has it ever occurred to you, peoples terms are the answers to these questions?

And you got them. :)
Zanar Skwigelf
Wormhoppers Inc.
#12 - 2017-04-10 14:19:49 UTC
William Ormono
Reason Will Prevail
#13 - 2017-04-10 14:22:18 UTC
Manbun Scarfbeard wrote:
My assurance and failsafe is staying safe in the first place, and how even if things go wrong I'm at worst down only one Rattlesnake.


I hope you can understand that from an investor's perspective, being told that your plan is "staying safe in the first place" isn't reassuring at all. That's the plan for every PvE'er, explorer, miner and hauler - But sometimes Bob has other plans.

You've also mentioned your plan is to dual-box. AKA - both Rattlesnakes will be in space running missions at the same time. How can you guarantee you would only lose one? Answer - you can't. You can speculate that it is very unlikely that you would lose both, but you can't guarantee it. And if you lose both, you lose your ability to pay back your loan.

You also mentioned your corp just fought off an eviction attempt and as a result everyone's wallets are thin. Sounds like the eviction attempt hit the corp hard (not symbolic of a permanent fixture). If your corp does get evicted, how do you make ISK to pay back your loan?

You say you've received some offers in game. I would suggest you take one of them because I can't see anyone who frequents these forums wanting to get involved in this. But, I've been wrong before. Good luck!
Manbun Scarfbeard
Doomheim
#14 - 2017-04-10 15:37:07 UTC  |  Edited by: Manbun Scarfbeard
William Ormono wrote:

You've also mentioned your plan is to dual-box. AKA - both Rattlesnakes will be in space running missions at the same time. How can you guarantee you would only lose one? Answer - you can't. You can speculate that it is very unlikely that you would lose both, but you can't guarantee it. And if you lose both, you lose your ability to pay back your loan.

You also mentioned your corp just fought off an eviction attempt and as a result everyone's wallets are thin. Sounds like the eviction attempt hit the corp hard (not symbolic of a permanent fixture). If your corp does get evicted, how do you make ISK to pay back your loan?

I think these lines of questions mainly boil down to not understanding how wormhole space works. A wormhole system is hermetically sealed once you have eyes on the holes, which means no new threats come in that you don't know about.
Knowing if a hostile entity is active in one of the systems is also something that regular scouting provides before engaging in PVE, and if that situation arises, you can re-roll the hole, or just roll them out of that particular connection. Rolling can be done in one pass, so it usually happens before the entity can react.
That leaves you with the inhabitants of the hole you want to bear in. You warp to the citadels/poses, check corp killboards, and make a threat assessment. Also, from what I found, the systems we roll into are empty (or the inhabitants are asleep), or the corp that set up shop died, or it's some guy and his 2 alts living solo.
I tire of going into details to be honest, living in wh space is very different from going in from hisec (daytripping). If you know what you are doing and have a corp to back you up, PVE losses are miniscule.
You'd have to be really bored to have a cloaky fleet camped in a system, waiting for hours for people to roll in. A well-fit passive rattle takes a long time to go down, giving the rescue fleet more than enough time to bail you out. Also, my rattles put out 1100 sustained DPS each with rapid heavies (that includes reload time), so unless they bring EWAR they are in for an ass-kicking.

Eviction attempts sometimes happen, but what happened isn't something that affects day-to-day life after the attempt is over. They tried to get some citadel timers, we kicked their asses, but fights cause ship loss on both sides. They went home, gfs were said, it's over now.
You have to consider that most wormhole entites are friendly towards each other at the end of the day, eviction attempts are mostly happening to create content, rather than the revenge fantasies you can sometimes read about.
William Ormono wrote:

You say you've received some offers in game. I would suggest you take one of them because I can't see anyone who frequents these forums wanting to get involved in this. But, I've been wrong before. Good luck!

I have more offers than I expected to be honest, right now I have an interview set up with the guy offering the best terms.
Thank you for your observations.

Zanar Skwigelf wrote:
https://secure.eveonline.com/plex/

I don't spend money on eve besides paying for my subscriptions.
Areen Sassel
Dirac Angestun Gesept
#15 - 2017-04-10 18:44:48 UTC  |  Edited by: Areen Sassel
Manbun Scarfbeard wrote:
William Ormono wrote:
You've also mentioned your plan is to dual-box. AKA - both Rattlesnakes will be in space running missions at the same time. How can you guarantee you would only lose one?

I think these lines of questions mainly boil down to not understanding how wormhole space works.


I don't. Your explanation of wormhole space details how it's very unlikely to lose one (if your corp is competent) but it doesn't, at all, address the issue that if you _do_ lose one there is no particular reason why you shouldn't lose the other at the same time.

Quote:
I have more offers than I expected to be honest, right now I have an interview set up with the guy offering the best terms.


Of course you do. I'll bet any number of MD regulars will be posting in here about how this seemed like an excellent deal and they offered. Any day now.
Manbun Scarfbeard
Doomheim
#16 - 2017-04-10 19:18:22 UTC
Areen Sassel wrote:

I don't. Your explanation of wormhole space details how it's very unlikely to lose one (if your corp is competent) but it doesn't, at all, address the issue that if you _do_ lose one there is no particular reason why you shouldn't lose the other at the same time.

Not staying on the warp-in, MJD, high sustained tank, rescue fleet, hole control. Puzzle it together.
Solonius Rex
F0RCED ENTRY
NullSechnaya Sholupen
#17 - 2017-04-10 20:09:55 UTC
Manbun Scarfbeard wrote:

I think these lines of questions mainly boil down to not understanding how wormhole space works. A wormhole system is hermetically sealed once you have eyes on the holes, which means no new threats come in that you don't know about.
Knowing if a hostile entity is active in one of the systems is also something that regular scouting provides before engaging in PVE, and if that situation arises, you can re-roll the hole, or just roll them out of that particular connection. Rolling can be done in one pass, so it usually happens before the entity can react.
That leaves you with the inhabitants of the hole you want to bear in. You warp to the citadels/poses, check corp killboards, and make a threat assessment. Also, from what I found, the systems we roll into are empty (or the inhabitants are asleep), or the corp that set up shop died, or it's some guy and his 2 alts living solo.
I tire of going into details to be honest, living in wh space is very different from going in from hisec (daytripping). If you know what you are doing and have a corp to back you up, PVE losses are miniscule.
You'd have to be really bored to have a cloaky fleet camped in a system, waiting for hours for people to roll in. A well-fit passive rattle takes a long time to go down, giving the rescue fleet more than enough time to bail you out. Also, my rattles put out 1100 sustained DPS each with rapid heavies (that includes reload time), so unless they bring EWAR they are in for an ass-kicking.


Which also means that you can only rat and PVE once you have a sufficient number of friends online who have dedicated scouts/scanner alts that are constantly scanning when a new anom pops up. And no one is going to do that for a corp mate unless they either get a cut or are PVE-ing themselves, which begs the question of why you cant run anoms with your corpmates and make isk perfectly optimally, that way.

And no, as a person who is currently in an active WH corp, Rolling takes a fleet, because no one wants to sacrifice a raven or HIC or whatever you use to roll the WH with, without sufficient backup.

So youre basically telling us that you have a whole fleet that just stands there on standby just so you can PVE. So what, theyre just sitting there, staring at the screen all day while you go out and make ISK? How laughably unbelievable that is.

What we do, is we constantly check Dscan. Thats it. Sure, everyones on comms on the off-chance that someone gets dropped on, but we dont have dedicated scouts and scanners who are just looking at the hole just so that we can PVE, because thats a waste of everyones time. The only time we have a dedicated scan/scout is if were actively looking for fights.

Everything you say is so unbelievable, from someone who is actually living in a WH.

But thats not even the most laughable part of your story.

Quote:

Eviction attempts sometimes happen, but what happened isn't something that affects day-to-day life after the attempt is over. They tried to get some citadel timers, we kicked their asses, but fights cause ship loss on both sides. They went home, gfs were said, it's over now.
You have to consider that most wormhole entites are friendly towards each other at the end of the day, eviction attempts are mostly happening to create content, rather than the revenge fantasies you can sometimes read about.


This is.

I have maybe 3 billion isk on this char right now, and about 12 billion isk on my char that is in a WH corp. But even on a bad day of defending our citadel, i still only lose around 1-2 billion isk, which is easily replaceable by me(our standard doctrine is Legions, maybe ill lose 2 and thats only around 1.4 bill total). And im considered one of the poorest corpmate in our corp.

How incompetent does your corp have to be to become completely drained as to not be able to afford a mere 1.2 billion isk after a defense? Did you guys throw wave after wave of shitfit shiny bhaalgorns at your enemies or something? Its baffling to hear that your corp, after a single defense, has grown so poor that no one can loan you 1.2 billion isk.

The more likely explanation is that either your corpmates dont trust you enough to lend you the isk, or you are simply just trying to scam.
Solonius Rex
F0RCED ENTRY
NullSechnaya Sholupen
#18 - 2017-04-10 20:15:05 UTC
Manbun Scarfbeard wrote:
Areen Sassel wrote:

I don't. Your explanation of wormhole space details how it's very unlikely to lose one (if your corp is competent) but it doesn't, at all, address the issue that if you _do_ lose one there is no particular reason why you shouldn't lose the other at the same time.

Not staying on the warp-in, MJD, high sustained tank, rescue fleet, hole control. Puzzle it together.



So its been like a week since youve posted in the other thread requesting a loan. Surely youve made around 600 mill by now, right? So you only have to wait another week or so and you dont need a loan anymore, right?
Manbun Scarfbeard
Doomheim
#19 - 2017-04-10 20:18:14 UTC  |  Edited by: Manbun Scarfbeard
Solonius Rex wrote:
-rant

Scout alts. Proper fleet/proper logi on both sides, expensive. Teaming up halves isk/hour. We are also a lot bigger than your corp is.

I was going to write a proper reply but you seem too hostile for me to waste text on.

I also need more injectors than what the loan is for, I'm putting my own time into it as well obviously.
Solonius Rex
F0RCED ENTRY
NullSechnaya Sholupen
#20 - 2017-04-10 20:29:30 UTC
Manbun Scarfbeard wrote:
Solonius Rex wrote:
-rant

Scout alts. Proper fleet/proper logi on both sides, expensive. Teaming up halves isk/hour.

I was going to write a proper reply but you seem too hostile for me to waste text on.

I also need more injectors than what the loan is for, I'm putting my own time into it as well obviously.


Again, only shows the incompetance of your corp/alliance if they become so poor after a single defense as to not being able to afford 1.2 bill loan for you.

My concerns are valid. You are the second person ive seen in the past few months claiming to have a dual box rattlesnake set up and asking for a non-collateral loan.
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