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IPOs - What percentage do YOU think are scams?
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Cista2
EVE Museum
#21 - 2017-04-09 19:47:16 UTC  |  Edited by: Cista2
Toobo wrote:
I don't deny that there would be a 'few' people who could get investment with no collateral due to their reputation/past relations, etc, but they would be more of an exception than norm. I wouldn't know how many people would be on such a 'list' on MD, but I'd wager that such a list would be very short. ;)

Again, I really have to object in the kindest possible way. Investments in unsecured projects happen all the time. Some of them may have shadowly investors or otherwise fishy details. That is how scams and losses generally happen.

Even unknown people can still get invcestments like that, sometimes.
If you look at MD first page right now there are probably 6-7 unsecured bonds and projects. Even I have invested in one of them which I usually never do :)

The only thing we *don't* have is what we all long for - an organised system for trading with all these securities!
*wink* *wink* Jeronica

My channel: "Signatures" -
Toobo
Project Fruit House
#22 - 2017-04-10 15:41:39 UTC
Cista2 wrote:
Toobo wrote:
I don't deny that there would be a 'few' people who could get investment with no collateral due to their reputation/past relations, etc, but they would be more of an exception than norm. I wouldn't know how many people would be on such a 'list' on MD, but I'd wager that such a list would be very short. ;)

Again, I really have to object in the kindest possible way. Investments in unsecured projects happen all the time. Some of them may have shadowly investors or otherwise fishy details. That is how scams and losses generally happen.

Even unknown people can still get invcestments like that, sometimes.
If you look at MD first page right now there are probably 6-7 unsecured bonds and projects. Even I have invested in one of them which I usually never do :)

The only thing we *don't* have is what we all long for - an organised system for trading with all these securities!
*wink* *wink* Jeronica


Yes there certainly are quite a few things going on now - I take a note and you're right about that.

I guess maybe my own personal view on unsecured investment have clouded the way I see the current (or past) landscape, as I tend to not take it seriously when I see a thread with no collateral offered, but you right these things to come up and people do get investment for these. I stand corrected. o7

Cheers Love! The cavalry's here!
Jerry T Pepridge
Meta Game Analysis and Investment INC.
#23 - 2017-04-11 00:21:45 UTC
RAW23 wrote:

Jerry, there have been dozens if not hundreds of successful bonds during that period. Either your memory is faulty or you are deliberately being selective with your data.


correct, as long as the rep grind bonds leading to a scam aren't included in the math.

you following bro?


@JerryTPepridge
TomHorn
Horn Brothers Holdings Inc.
#24 - 2017-04-11 01:15:14 UTC
Jerry T Pepridge wrote:
RAW23 wrote:
I did some research on this a while back but bear in mind that the data is quite old and may not reflect the current state of the MD market.

The sample I covered was 10 months of offerings over 2010-2011, covering about 90 offers. I only included those that actually launched successfully. Of the 90 the proportion that scammed or defaulted was about 10% by quantity (8 scams). However, total losses to these 8 scams massively outweighed all the interest payments from non-scam offerings, largely due to the sample catching one of the last great MD scam (T4U), which cost investors about 400 billion isk. Bobby was also responsible for two of the other offerings in the period which scammed (I counted individual offerings rather than the people making the offerings). That said, the main thing to come out of the research was that even if more people lost money than made money, this was a result of a dubious investing pattern according to which people typically invested larger amounts in the bigger offerings. The conclusion I came to was that if you took a diversified approach and didn't scale your investments to the offering size but kept them the same size across the basket you could invest a fixed amount in every offering and successfully come in better than the break-even point (just).

tl;dr c. The scam rate was c. 10% 6 or 7 years ago. Not sure what it is now.


since posting here for however many years, p much every "bond" with the exception of about 5-6 ppl has been a scam either now or not too distant future (if not this bond, the next)

raw23
elizabeth norn
cista
Block UKx
Candy oshea (aka me to prove anyone can bypass VV's BS MD audit)
VV
who else?

the better measure, is who is currently running a legit bond, i only count one, which would be yours (raw23). the "IPO" running now is definelty a scam.

U can do better with your own isk than anyone else. just takes practise & patience to find your markets. - RL money is tied to ISK, would u rly trust a stranger with your money based on a factual forum post?

kek.


Who else TomHorn , think it was for 3.5bill no collateral 3.5% one investor march rabbit.
Jerry T Pepridge
Meta Game Analysis and Investment INC.
#25 - 2017-04-11 01:26:49 UTC
Quote:


Who else TomHorn , think it was for 3.5bill no collateral 3.5% one investor march rabbit.


thanks for mentioning your rep grind bond, not everyone makes a thread when thy send isk between there alts

@JerryTPepridge
TomHorn
Horn Brothers Holdings Inc.
#26 - 2017-04-11 01:33:31 UTC
Jerry T Pepridge wrote:
Quote:


Who else TomHorn , think it was for 3.5bill no collateral 3.5% one investor march rabbit.


thanks for mentioning your rep grind bond, not everyone makes a thread when thy send isk between there alts


Shocked

Keep up the good work Jerry.
Jerry T Pepridge
Meta Game Analysis and Investment INC.
#27 - 2017-04-11 01:53:27 UTC
TomHorn wrote:

Keep up the good work Jerry.


cya in your next thread bro

@JerryTPepridge
RAW23
#28 - 2017-04-11 11:53:17 UTC
Jerry T Pepridge wrote:
RAW23 wrote:

Jerry, there have been dozens if not hundreds of successful bonds during that period. Either your memory is faulty or you are deliberately being selective with your data.


correct, as long as the rep grind bonds leading to a scam aren't included in the math.

you following bro?





Well, you can reject pretty much anything on the assumption it is a rep grind for the future. Your list is still short of quite a few though. Without looking there are Rykker, PP, Grendel, AC155, Lord Arbalest ... lots really.

But in any case, I have always thought it was a mistake to count people rather than bonds. One person might run a dozen bonds and then default on the last due to RL issues, or disengagement with the game, or run of the mill long term scam. That doesn't mean that the first dozen bonds were bad investment opportunities. Risk profiles can vary for the same person over different bonds and it should be the risk profile for an individual bond that governs decisions to invest. If I am unsure whether someone is going to scam in the future but also think with some confidence that if they do scam it will be for more than 20 billion I can invest with reasonable confidence in their 10 bil bond. Whatever they do in the future is irrelevant to whether or not that bonds comes up heads for me as an investor.

There are two types of EVE player:

those who believe there are two types of EVE player and those who do not.
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