EVE General Discussion

The question at hand is purely philosophical and we can safely discuss it without any real life politics getting in the way. People just need to keep their sensibilities (a tall order on the internet, I know) and we'll be just fine.



You weren't quoting anyone here so I'm not sure if that was directed toward me as the OP or if you were just addressing the general audience, but I doubt anyone here (me least of all) is approaching this topic assuming that humans are by nature innocent cherubs. We all play Eve, after all :-) and what's more we are reading these forums! We've seen what humans can be and do! Haha!



This is an interesting angle. I was approaching this whole topic in terms of what is already inside us affecting how we interact in the world Eve provides. Here you posit the idea that what we do in Eve might actually affect our personality or actions in the real world. Obviously a person's personality and personal code of ethics is an intricate thing, but just as I read in another thread about how a person spends so much time in the Eve universe that they sometimes refer to real life money as "isk" mistakenly . . . well, whatever we spend a vast amount of our time doing can certainly have profound effects on who we are as basic people, I suppose. I seriously doubt a "life of crime" in Eve would help lead a person toward planning actual murder in real life, but I would be far less surprised if someone admitted that they got so used to "working the system" in Eve to take advantage of other players that they might dabble in seeing what kind of low-level scam they might be able to get away with in real life . . . or maybe even something as simple as cheating on a test. This is all conjecture, obviously, but it wouldn't surprise me.

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I would definitely be interested in some of those statistics. Does anyone know if any such numbers have already been gathered? How many players have had their ships destroyed by other players? how many have been podded? Of those how many occured as ganks in high-sec, piracy in low-sec, or "get off my lawn" in null-sec? (etc etc etc) I wonder what the percentage of players is that have perpetrated the destruction/podding of another player. How many players, including "carebears" fully embrace the PvP aspect of the game (as in they may not engage in it willingly themselves but they understand that if it happens to them, well, them's the breaks) and how many truly believe its outrageous that they can't just be left alone.

Honestly I think that is an aspect of all this. And again, I don't want to introduce a completely different topic so if you would, just stick with me in not going too far down the rabbit hole. But here's the deal. Some people, clearly, want to play Eve as if it were a "you need to ask me first before we PvP" style game. Now, by the pure game mechanics, they can demand that all they want, but if they undock, the simple truth is they can be blown up whether they consent or not. This is where I'm asking us not to get off track. Let's please not start complaining about or deriding such people or saying that they chose a PvP game so they need to live with it. My point is simply this: The situation exists. Some people just want to be left alone, run their missions or do all their industrial activity in peace. Other people see them and want their stuff. After all, if they undock and they have something you want and you have the wherewithal to take it from them, then they are indeed fair game, right? That, of course, is the basic logic that seems to justify blowing up their ship and taking whatever drops.

And honestly, I just paused for a few minutes after writing that paragraph to contemplate what I'd written and what the implications are as I was really just writing whatever came to mind, haha.... and the point ISN'T whether or not such actions are "ok" in the game. Of course they are. They are perfectly within the bounds CCP has set, the game mechanics allow for it and even expedite it. I think that's just the point, though. We're back to the, "What would I do if the 'rules' that say, 'don't steal what's not yours' goes away?" The answer? If you're strong enough to do what you want, you do it. Might makes right. Or perhaps a better what of doing it, "Might makes it permissible." If you can take it and keep it, then you've earned it and it's rightfully yours as long as you have the ability to keep it, so to speak. And like has been mentioned before, I wonder what would have to happen for us to start living like that in the real world?

Demonstrably and obviously untrue. Thank you for providing some weight on the far end of the spectrum so we don't teeter too much on the end of rationality and thoughtfulness.

Aggression is just another form of competition. And in EVE one major downside has been removed: death, or at least its permanency. If you die in EVE you reship and go back out.

Resources are also finite so people are going to compete for them. And again one way of competing is via combat.

What is perhaps a more interesting question, is what if there was true permadeath in EVE.

Unworkable in EVE, I know, but since we are talking about social experiments, might as well consider that theoretical situation as well.

(Albeit, CCP could implement SP loss for clone death, similar to the TC3 precedent.)

Sounds good to me.
It equalizes risk between predator and prey.

As typically prey, Im ok with losing SP for failing.

Infact the more I think about it, the more it would fix as a solution around sector mechanics.