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Scialt
Corporate Navy Police Force
Sleep Reapers
#21 - 2017-04-07 12:51:59 UTC
Andrew Indy wrote:
Alasdan Helminthauge wrote:
Scialt wrote:


I get annoyed at the exchange part of LP stuff. Collecting all the stuff besides LP you need to cash in to get an item annoys the heck out of me... to the point I now pretty much only get stuff like implants that doesn't need anything aside from isk. I wish more had the option to just use isk to avoid supplying base items/tags/whatever... even if it were at a bit of a premium to do so.


There're pretty a lot items in the LP store that only requires some common T1 items (among with the isk and LP). You can just go for those.


Also if all items just required ISK then their value would decrease, the only reason those other items have a better LP/ISK is because they require more effort.


It would also increase competition. I stick with sisters of eve in part because their rewards are cool... but also in part because their LP store pretty much requires nothing aside from LP, Isk... and probes and probe launchers. It is the least cumbersome LP store to deal with... and probably the most popular for players.

If other LP stores were closer to the sisters setup... more players would run them... and there's be more competition for the items produced. Yeah, the prices would drop. But that's not a bad thing... I'm a consumer of those items from the market too.
Nicola Romanoff
Tannhauser C-Beam
#22 - 2017-04-07 13:33:08 UTC
Then that to me indicates that te LP process is broken, 90% of the NPC corps out there offer the same or similar, other factions are few and far between and the SOE LP are the easiest, If everybody went with those it makes me wonder why SOE probes etc are so expensive relatively speaking.
Chainsaw Plankton
FaDoyToy
#23 - 2017-04-07 15:18:41 UTC
Nicola Romanoff wrote:
I have no issue with items requring more items than just ISK, but when it comes to tags I just wish there was alternative ways of getting them apart from blowing your status with a faction or simply buying off market. If your doing a security mission with an NPC corp there should be a chance of any tags that are required for items in the P store of that NPC corp to drop without losing status against a faction, or even be able to buy tags for LP under the store. The methods of aquiring the tags at the moment I think are too limiting.

tags are another great feature, they force a choice. I dunno why players are "afraid" or otherwise unwilling to lose some imaginary standings points that don't even matter and are honestly way too easy to fix. Faction missions were a great way to make 100m/hr+ back when that was an uncommon thing. I stopped running them, but that is because I'm making more isk doing other things, and looting turned into an unfun click fest. MTUs are a big help for that kind of thing.

Nicola Romanoff wrote:
Then that to me indicates that te LP process is broken, 90% of the NPC corps out there offer the same or similar, other factions are few and far between and the SOE LP are the easiest, If everybody went with those it makes me wonder why SOE probes etc are so expensive relatively speaking.

uhh no? and like I said earlier, soe lp is simply easier to earn than any other lp in highsec. and incursion runners can convert their lp to almost any empire corp effectively capping their prices. a bunch of years ago you could do your research and make 5k isk/lp, these days if anything breaks 2k isk/lp incursion runners convert their LP and cash in on it. Also many navy stores are irrelevant as they directly compete with faction warfare stores.

SoE stuff costs what it does because there is a wide spread of items from their store that are in demand, the astero, stratios, core/combat probes, core/expanded launcher, and the virtue set. between all those items I can grind for hours and barely make a dent. In the long run over all the SoE mission runners I expect downwards pressure on prices

Scialt wrote:
It would also increase competition. I stick with sisters of eve in part because their rewards are cool... but also in part because their LP store pretty much requires nothing aside from LP, Isk... and probes and probe launchers. It is the least cumbersome LP store to deal with... and probably the most popular for players.

If other LP stores were closer to the sisters setup... more players would run them... and there's be more competition for the items produced. Yeah, the prices would drop. But that's not a bad thing... I'm a consumer of those items from the market too.

again soe lp is easier to earn than any other lp, other stores need a higher isk/lp ratio to attract mission runners. I'm not sure getting rid of tags is a good thing, tags reward players willing to do work that you aren't. Also I get paid because I do something you are too lazy to do.




All that said, LP stores could use some love. I'd like to see cheaper frig/cruiser mods. For example a cruise launcher and a light missile launcher cost about the same, and the cruiser launchers cost more. Of course as I'm writing this there was a huge spike in cruise launcher prices over the last day, but the price graph is pretty stable over the last year.

I'd also like to see changes to the way concord LP converts so you do see mission runners spread out. there is only a small handful of agents that are worth working for, on one hand it is nice that concord lp converts and they can supply useful modules, on the other it completely blocks less desirable agents from being usable without taking a big income hit.

@ChainsawPlankto on twitter
Orin Solette
The Scope
Gallente Federation
#24 - 2017-04-07 15:55:31 UTC  |  Edited by: Orin Solette
It's not just incursion runners. It's factional warfare as well. And ratting with ESS is still a thing right? All activities give out a ton of empire LP, making it worth a ton less.

Seems to me Sisters of Eve was specifically designed for high sec mission runners. Even incursion runners have a crappy conversion ratio for SOE LP.
Chainsaw Plankton
FaDoyToy
#25 - 2017-04-07 16:10:18 UTC
FW and ESS ratting directly impact navy stores as FW has the navy store with some extra items and cheaper ships, and ESS ratting is Navy LP. Don't think anyone would convert concord lp to navy LP.

the other two LP store varieties are less impacted by FW and ESS as they have the 5 run bpcs, this is where the concord LP cap comes in.

@ChainsawPlankto on twitter
Fish Hunter
Center for Advanced Studies
Gallente Federation
#26 - 2017-04-07 16:36:58 UTC
FW has a hold on the navy ships and a few other items and their lp stores have datacores that help hold their LP value up to a minimum value.
Nicola Romanoff
Tannhauser C-Beam
#27 - 2017-04-07 21:01:02 UTC
chainsaw, it seems you know your stuff about LP, hats off to you. Ive just left a WH corp to do things in high sec and I am struggling to make ISK (hence the post about LP) not sure if ill move to do SOE ones as I didnt want to just rat. I guess I have some thinking to do about what I need to do.
Nicola Romanoff
Tannhauser C-Beam
#28 - 2017-04-08 07:14:08 UTC
OK, so whilst I recognise that the SOE LP are easiest I decided to do som emissions (only level 1) with Thukker Mix as they seems to have an interesting collection of items in their LP store. Even though none of my missions were against any major faction and the combat missions were against Angel Cartel I lost standing with Amarr and Caldari (and probably a lot of other factions)

This is not acceptable for me so I have decided to abandon Thukker agents.

The question is now do I just cave and go for SOE agents (Whom I can run level 4 missions for), or try and search for something else. This is where the lack of variety hurts the whole LP setup in my opinion.
Jori McKie
Hedion University
Amarr Empire
#29 - 2017-04-08 07:27:31 UTC  |  Edited by: Jori McKie
Nicola Romanoff wrote:
OK, so whilst I recognise that the SOE LP are easiest I decided to do som emissions (only level 1) with Thukker Mix as they seems to have an interesting collection of items in their LP store. Even though none of my missions were against any major faction and the combat missions were against Angel Cartel I lost standing with Amarr and Caldari (and probably a lot of other factions)

This is not acceptable for me so I have decided to abandon Thukker agents.

The question is now do I just cave and go for SOE agents (Whom I can run level 4 missions for), or try and search for something else. This is where the lack of variety hurts the whole LP setup in my opinion.


Try SOE in Lanngisi and as you seem to be interested in ISK/h, start bltizing missions and do Burner missions.
Read this guide https://docs.google.com/document/d/1knVqZEH8qFY0eT44nMEFwcKd3t4PbgcZeuv58SVUxsI/pub about blitzing.
About the standing loss, this is from an EVE-mail answer i recently sent out.
Quote:
Blitzing SOE needs faction standing now and then as every declined mission is -0.01(not sure about the number but it is very small) SOE faction standing loss so you have to run storyline missions sooner or later.

You are correct only storyline mission gives faction standing, i was trying to explain that you don't have to skip them all as there are ones without a direct standing hit to other factions. Every faction standing gain cause derived standing, it is a small amount compared to direct gain but it adds up in the long run. Derived standing has a cap, the sheet tells you where that cap is and how much you gain/lose percentwise.

Example SOE vs Amarr
First sheet tells you the cap, read the left column SOE and find Amarr in the top row. It says -1.00 that's the cap, you can't get below that via derived standing.
Second sheet tells you the percentage, again read the left column SOE and find Amarr in the top row. It says -0.6 that's the percentage and a bit more complicated. Numbers are made up to explain. Lets say you have a SOE mission with pure +7 standing gain and your SOE standing is +8. Then your actually gain isn't +7, it is only +0.2 SOE as the higher your standing the lower your new gain. After that mission you will have +8.2 SOE faction standing. From this 0.2 SOE gain derived standing will take -0.6 = -60% so -0.12 towards Amarr until your reach -1 Amarr.


The list isn't complete but it should do it for starters, still check Eve-Survival for standing gain/loss. And be aware that there are some normal missions that cause direct standing loss. Example Enemies Abound Part 3.

Good ones
Every courier storyline is fine
Shipyard Theft – Diverse
Extract the Renegade – Gallente
Soothe the Salvage Beast – Drones
Patient Zero – Drones
Covering Your Tracks – Mercs
Record Cleaning – Mercs
Evolution – Drones
Quota Season – Angel
Matriarch – Angel
The Blood of Angry Men
Nine Tenths of the Wormhole – Sansha
Inspired Objectives – Serpentis
+
Pot and Kettle Part 1, skip the others
Enemies abound Part 1+2, skip the others


Never do these ones
Are You Receiving?
In The Midst of Deadspace
Smash The Supplier
War Situation
An Advantageous Catastrophe
Exploited Sensitivities
Postmodern Primitives
Amarrian Excavators
+ more i don't have listed.


As i said to circumvent this whole problem use an Alt Character that exclusively runs Amarr/Caldari. Take missions with the Alt run them with your Main. Stay in fleet for standing gain, leave fleet to avoid standing gain.


And some links
https://support.eveonline.com/hc/en-us/articles/203217152-Standings
https://wiki.eveuniversity.org/Standings_101
https://forums.eveonline.com/default.aspx?g=posts&t=10212&find=unread
Derived standing chart http://www.newedenlibrary.net/eon/faction_standings.shtml

"It's easy to speak for the silent majority. They rarely object to what you put into their mouths." - Abrazzar
Nicola Romanoff
Tannhauser C-Beam
#30 - 2017-04-08 07:40:41 UTC
I only need ISK so I can buy ships to PVP and (hopefully) plex at least one account. my main income used to be PI (34 planets) and since leaving mylast corp that option is no longer available to me so trying to find an alternative. Thanks for the links etc, ill take a read and try that place out.
Jori McKie
Hedion University
Amarr Empire
#31 - 2017-04-08 08:24:27 UTC  |  Edited by: Jori McKie
Then you may want to read those too
Old data but still useful Rudimentary guide how to blitz LvL 4 missions More information
The ISK/h numbers are outdated of course but it is still possible to do 200m/h.

"It's easy to speak for the silent majority. They rarely object to what you put into their mouths." - Abrazzar
Nicola Romanoff
Tannhauser C-Beam
#32 - 2017-04-08 11:14:10 UTC  |  Edited by: Nicola Romanoff
Yeah tried a burner mission on that (Succubus), dont think that is for me having lost a wolf and a daredevil to the total tune of 400m ish, I think ill leave those to the people that know what they are doing.
Jori McKie
Hedion University
Amarr Empire
#33 - 2017-04-08 15:10:26 UTC  |  Edited by: Jori McKie
Nicola Romanoff wrote:
Yeah tried a burner mission on that (Succubus), dont think that is for me having lost a wolf and a daredevil to the total tune of 400m ish, I think ill leave those to the people that know what they are doing.


Try them on the testserver first when you do them for the first time especially if your skills aren't that developed. You should be able to run them all with ALL IV skills.
Don't shy away from them everybody paid it's price doing it the first time.

"It's easy to speak for the silent majority. They rarely object to what you put into their mouths." - Abrazzar
Zarek Kree
Lunatic Legion Holdings
#34 - 2017-04-08 16:09:31 UTC  |  Edited by: Zarek Kree
Nicola Romanoff wrote:
Yeah tried a burner mission on that (Succubus), dont think that is for me having lost a wolf and a daredevil to the total tune of 400m ish, I think ill leave those to the people that know what they are doing.



I left wormhole life several months ago specifically to learn how to blitz L4s and burners. I easily lost 1.5B isk when I first started (because I was stupid and didn't use the test server). But now I can't remember the last time I lost a burner ship. They can be a little painful to figure out but the rewards are worth it. And it's a relatively safe source of income that's available to you indefinitely. Like EVE itself, you just have to scale the learning cliff.
Nicola Romanoff
Tannhauser C-Beam
#35 - 2017-04-08 16:16:23 UTC
I am sure that is the sensible option, my main def has the skills. Ive done two burner missions, one against a cruor which i beat but was 23% hull and the succubus which obliterated me very quickly, i quit the mission in the end. Ultimately i hate ratting I dind it incredbily boring but it is my own main option for ISK atm. I have exploration too but there is only so much i can do of that.
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