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RWM Play Station Wallets buying advantage in DUST is NOT gonna buy advantage in EVE ??

First post
Author
Hannibalx
#81 - 2011-12-30 23:08:46 UTC
Chevy Hakoke wrote:
Overall making a FPS for an MMO probably won't work out... a MMO is long term (years) and FPS is a few months to a maximum of 2 years (if its good)

If this were WOW this wouldn't work, so making a FPS on a less popular console that has even less FPSers on average, on a niche MMO sounds like a recipe for disaster

When this fails people are gonna say

WTF CCP you wasted years on a fail product while neglecting EVE




^^This^^ Pay to win aside, if Dust doesn't have absolutely stellar and addictive gameplay it will fizzle out extremely fast. I also think it would have a much better chance for success if released for PC, but that's not happening. Many like myself won't give it a chance for that reason alone.
svetlana
Constellation Guard
#82 - 2011-12-30 23:09:40 UTC
a bit off topic,

but "exclusive PS3" doesn't necessarily mean exclusive 'forever'? even if DUST fails or dies out on PS3 (the former I somewhat doubt) a later PC release to prop up whatever game mechanic is necessary to complement the EVE universe would still work.

A PC release even 2 years after PS3 gamers are bored would guarantee that I and like-minded capsuleers jump in and play.

Ironically (and not great btw:) since logging into another charactrer in EVE is the same as quitting and restarting the client, then "logging out" to jump into a PC version of dust would be exactly the same amount of effort lol.
Tippia
Sunshine and Lollipops
#83 - 2011-12-30 23:14:03 UTC
svetlana wrote:
but "exclusive PS3" doesn't necessarily mean exclusive 'forever'? even if DUST fails or dies out on PS3 (the former I somewhat doubt) a later PC release to prop up whatever game mechanic is necessary to complement the EVE universe would still work.
Since day 1, they have said that EVE will continue to work without Dust and vice versa, so there won't be anything to prop up.
svetlana
Constellation Guard
#84 - 2011-12-30 23:48:49 UTC
Tippia wrote:
Since day 1, they have said that EVE will continue to work without Dust and vice versa, so there won't be anything to prop up.


Ah, yes true true I forgot.

Well, in any case It might be neat to run EVE and Dust on PC in side by side windows, one side perhaps supporting the other in some way. . . (moral support? lounging in CQ watching the wide-screen with a Quafe, as my poor little duster gets blown to bits on the ground:)



Nova Fox
Novafox Shipyards
#85 - 2011-12-31 00:00:10 UTC
Chevy Hakoke wrote:
Overall making a FPS for an MMO probably won't work out... a MMO is long term (years) and FPS is a few months to a maximum of 2 years (if its good)

If this were WOW this wouldn't work, so making a FPS on a less popular console that has even less FPSers on average, on a niche MMO sounds like a recipe for disaster

When this fails people are gonna say

WTF CCP you wasted years on a fail product while neglecting EVE


well... this sounds like the common mmo.

Dust 514's CPM 1 Iron Wolf Saber Eve mail me about Dust 514 issues.

Chevy Hakoke
Caldari Provisions
Caldari State
#86 - 2011-12-31 18:38:27 UTC
Tippia wrote:
svetlana wrote:
but "exclusive PS3" doesn't necessarily mean exclusive 'forever'? even if DUST fails or dies out on PS3 (the former I somewhat doubt) a later PC release to prop up whatever game mechanic is necessary to complement the EVE universe would still work.
Since day 1, they have said that EVE will continue to work without Dust and vice versa, so there won't be anything to prop up.



Heres another issue... eve if it does come out on PC, who is going to pay rl money to stay competitive AND pay for their EVE sub (remember not everyone can afford Plex via isk)

This is going to fail no matter what because they are making a FPS, but they still have the pay system of an MMO.
Tippia
Sunshine and Lollipops
#87 - 2011-12-31 18:41:49 UTC
Chevy Hakoke wrote:
This is going to fail no matter what because they are making a FPS, but they still have the pay system of an MMO.
…which has worked quite nicely in the past. So why is it going to fail?

In particular, why would it fail, now that FPSes increasingly have a similar pay scheme without being MMOs (and MMOs increasingly having a similar pay scheme without being FPSes)? Both genres are headed in towards the same middle point…
Velicitia
XS Tech
#88 - 2011-12-31 18:53:02 UTC
Tippia wrote:
Chevy Hakoke wrote:
This is going to fail no matter what because they are making a FPS, but they still have the pay system of an MMO.
…which has worked quite nicely in the past. So why is it going to fail?

In particular, why would it fail, now that FPSes increasingly have a similar pay scheme without being MMOs (and MMOs increasingly having a similar pay scheme without being FPSes)? Both genres are headed in towards the same middle point…


sparkle-ponies in space?

One of the bitter points of a good bittervet is the realisation that all those SP don't really do much, and that the newbie is having much more fun with what little he has. - Tippia

Nova Fox
Novafox Shipyards
#89 - 2011-12-31 23:16:14 UTC
Midnight Sparkle?

Dust 514's CPM 1 Iron Wolf Saber Eve mail me about Dust 514 issues.

fuer0n
Republic Military School
Minmatar Republic
#90 - 2012-01-01 01:07:40 UTC
so many negative people about. im glad at least one development company is thinking out of the box, gaming has become far too stagnant over the last few years, noone will take calculated risks and it shows in how "samey" games have become. you gamers should be looking at the bigger picture and encouraging and praising CCP because you don't know how it will turn out and neither do they, be they are trying unlike most of the gaming industry.
Nicolo da'Vicenza
Viziam
Amarr Empire
#91 - 2012-01-01 01:30:34 UTC  |  Edited by: Nicolo da'Vicenza
Of course, they could just phase out DUST 1 and make EVE PI dependent on "DUST 2"
Keep the same framework that allows eve interaction but just replace the actual game.
Nova Fox
Novafox Shipyards
#92 - 2012-01-01 01:37:16 UTC
Nicolo da'Vicenza wrote:
Of course, they could just phase out DUST 1 and make EVE PI dependent on "DUST 2"
Keep the same framework that allows eve interaction but just replace the actual game.


I think thats what the expansions are going to do and they are going to offer multiple graphics editions and start doing what they did in eve drop support when player base shifts to 1% or less of player base and the previous console is holding it back.

Dust 514's CPM 1 Iron Wolf Saber Eve mail me about Dust 514 issues.

CCP Phantom
C C P
C C P Alliance
#93 - 2012-01-01 11:33:08 UTC
Moved from General Discussion.

CCP Phantom - Senior Community Developer

Baneken
Arctic Light Inc.
Arctic Light
#94 - 2012-01-01 12:07:54 UTC
Well all DUST needs to succeed is to hit the jugulars of WoT and soon to be WoA (air planes) and CCP has the future of DUST set with a golden road. P
Thta both are PC only should make it only easier for CCP.
svetlana
Constellation Guard
#95 - 2012-01-01 22:42:54 UTC
Chevy Hakoke wrote:

Heres another issue... eve if it does come out on PC, who is going to pay rl money to stay competitive AND pay for their EVE sub ...


won't EVE players be able to fund their Dust character with isk, one game to the other, in some manner?
seems to me that if you pay your EVE sub, that's all you ever need to pay, which makes playing Dust even more attractive.


isk4trade
Cogitation Mining and Industrial Trading
#96 - 2012-01-01 23:16:16 UTC
I don't have much doubt that DUST will fail miserably and with IMMENSE amounts of wailing and gnashing of teeth.

I just wonder how much mess will be made in EVE to straighten out and clean up. I, for one, at least hope it will be speculatively lucrative for us traders.

heh heh

me
Chevy Hakoke
Caldari Provisions
Caldari State
#97 - 2012-01-02 06:43:58 UTC
Its like a train wreck happening in slow motion....
AlleyKat
The Unwanted.
#98 - 2012-01-02 12:47:04 UTC
Grideris wrote:
Seriously guys. This thread makes me cry. I just can not believe the amount of ignorance that some people are spewing here. It's almost as if people are just crying at the first sign of change without looking at what's happening!

I wrote a massive walls of text, but the forums ate them. So I'll just leave you the TL;DR: DUST 514 is to FPS games as EVE Online is to MMORPGs. If CCP nail the game mechanics themselves, then where we're going, we won't need any roads.

If you have particular issues about DUST 514 or questions, ask me. Chances are, I know the answer if we've been told anything about it. I've been following every single scrap of information since the original press release. I'm also an administrator over at www.dust514.org - the unofficial fansite that's still a strong contender for #1 on the Google search results. I know what the hell I'm talking about.


Your blinkered view of the world shocks me - but I would recommend a job in public relations, as there is something appealing to the ears when words are spoken with such dogmatism.

In answer to your plea; I have a question for you:

"How many orbital bombardments from disgruntled EVE players will it take for players to leave DUST?"

I mean, if someone has the time, money and resources in EVE to perpetually kill off DUST players from above (especially if they have just whipped out the credit card for golden bullets) then I doubt they will be interested in being able to play the game, if all they do is spawn-and-die.

As you know what the hell you're talking about, I'm sure you'll also be able to clearly define why EVE players would be disgruntled and would do this.

Your point about game mechanics is moot; it could be the ab-so-lute pinnacle of game design, with weapons systems and balancing completed by TomB himself. This doesn't mean a thing when DUST players get taken out from above, with bullets the size of Volkswagen Beatles.

AK

PS: "Disgruntilation". New word for when an EVE player takes out the 'grunts' in DUST by orbital bombardment because they are pissed at CCP and wish to 'ruin the experience' for DUST players.

This space for rent.

Grideris
The Scope
Gallente Federation
#99 - 2012-01-02 16:41:41 UTC  |  Edited by: Grideris
AlleyKat wrote:
Your blinkered view of the world shocks me - but I would recommend a job in public relations, as there is something appealing to the ears when words are spoken with such dogmatism.

In answer to your plea; I have a question for you:

"How many orbital bombardments from disgruntled EVE players will it take for players to leave DUST?"

I mean, if someone has the time, money and resources in EVE to perpetually kill off DUST players from above (especially if they have just whipped out the credit card for golden bullets) then I doubt they will be interested in being able to play the game, if all they do is spawn-and-die.

As you know what the hell you're talking about, I'm sure you'll also be able to clearly define why EVE players would be disgruntled and would do this.

Your point about game mechanics is moot; it could be the ab-so-lute pinnacle of game design, with weapons systems and balancing completed by TomB himself. This doesn't mean a thing when DUST players get taken out from above, with bullets the size of Volkswagen Beatles.

AK

PS: "Disgruntilation". New word for when an EVE player takes out the 'grunts' in DUST by orbital bombardment because they are pissed at CCP and wish to 'ruin the experience' for DUST players.



In answer to your question: variable - it all depends on the player in question. Some player might throw in the towel as soon as the warning sirens light up. Others might decide to make it their personal vendetta to destroy you so absolutely that all you have in the game is your rookie ship and a piece of Tritanium. To the mercenaries who know their stuff though? It wouldn't matter. They would find a way to get the job done and move on. Don't forget, they're not exactly toothless themselves, and they're certainly not without means to strike back through other EVE players. The meta-game works both ways after all.

As to why EVE players would be disgruntled, there are several reasons I can come up with, as well as many I haven't.

  1. Some people believe that the subscriptions that pay for EVE, should go into EVE and nothing else. These people will bombard planets into oblivion to punish DUST 514 for even existing off the back of EVE in the first place.
  2. Other people are angry that DUST 514 isn't for Xbox 360. Others have issue with it being a console game, and it bringing "console kiddies" into EVE, which we all like to think of as having a much more mature player base.
  3. Some people don't like that the established order is being disrupted. They're comfortable with what they know, and they don't want any changes. I mean, normally people whine when CCP change small game mechanics. They pour rage when they change see Dominion scale changes. Bolting a new game onto EVE? That's like trying to put out a fire by throwing it in a pool of petrol to these people.
  4. And then there are those that think that DUST 514 will be a failure. They're so convinced that it will never live up to the competition that they will do everything in their power to see their prophecy come true.


Might add that it's not as simple to use orbital bombardment as you think. So far, the all the indications we have point towards it being used in a tactical sense, not strategic. You can't just carpet bomb the hell out of a planet just to kill a couple of console kids. You've got to get someone on the other team to pick a target before the shells come down. Through this, I'm pretty sure there will be limitations that prevent one side from just parking a single battleship or dreadnought in orbit and shutting down the entire battlefield. I'm guessing timers between shots (on both ends - reactivation delays on the module to bombard and a cool down on the designator, maybe even a global cooldown for the team). That or a cost in warpoints for each salvo.

Not to mention that as long as you're in orbit and shooting at the planet, you're a valid target to be shot back at. If the trailer is any indication, some of the skyfire batteries compare in power to a titan's doomsday. Even if it has half that power, that's still a serious punch. And you know those shields and armour plates that you have protecting your ship, preventing it from being vaporised in one shot? Don't be surprised if you see planetary installations with similar if not more powerful shields and armour. Heck, I could see shield projectors protecting areas of the battlefield, absorbing damage until you either deplete them with fire(takes a while) or sabotage the reactors on the ground (you don't think they'll be stupid enough to make the classic mistake of putting the generators on the outside, do you?)

That's enough from me for now. It's 2:45am, and I should be asleep. If you have more, I'll address them tomorrow.

EDIT: I'll admit though, it's an important question you ask. Should they fail to create the balance between the planets and the stars, I can see some room for problems. But that holds true for any poorly designed game mechanic. Just look at super carriers until they hit them with the nerf bat. I honestly hope that people do keep asking these questions so that CCP makes sure to answer them. And well.

http://www.dust514.org - the unofficial forum for everything DUST 514 http://www.dust514base.com -** the** blog site with everything else DUST 514 you need

AlleyKat
The Unwanted.
#100 - 2012-01-03 00:50:23 UTC
Grideris wrote:
Should they fail to create the balance between the planets and the stars, I can see some room for problems. But that holds true for any poorly designed game mechanic. Just look at super carriers until they hit them with the nerf bat. I honestly hope that people do keep asking these questions so that CCP makes sure to answer them. And well.


Erm, they have pretty much shown their hand - there is nothing else to learn about this game than that which is already available.

Only thing lacking is a launch video (hopefully made by SWP) and the live trials, where it will get passed through an infinity pro faster than you can say 'fire in the hole' and put up on youtube with in-depth analysis.

I guess from what you are saying is that CCP will pre-nerf the entire game from orbital bombardment.

Where there is a will, there is a group of EVE Online players allegedly hacking into websites, causing threadnoughts, declaring hulk-Armageddon, hacking TS Servers, paying people ISK to hack, paying people PLEX to hack, giving people blueprints to hack, RMT'ing their ass off; allegations of allowing BOT alliances to mine for RMT, allegations of hacking and exploiting the EVE universe to such mind-bending proportions that they hold onto exploits for 3 years and allegedly sell ISK for RMT to such a detrimental effect it destabilizes the game economy.

And that is just a miniscule amount of known and alleged activity over the last 3 years. So bad is it, that certain websites external to EVE forums cannot be named or linked because you might be looking at the nasty end of a gag or ban for doing so.

Every Dust player, regardless of timezone or nationality, is a fawn on the first day of hunting season 2012.

Shot down and fed to the fedo's - cheap meat.

AK

This space for rent.