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RWM Play Station Wallets buying advantage in DUST is NOT gonna buy advantage in EVE ??

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Nova Fox
Novafox Shipyards
#41 - 2011-12-29 19:56:16 UTC
Vallek Arkonnis wrote:
Valei Khurelem wrote:
it will be the people who have the most money RL and not the ones with actual skill that will win in this game


Have you ever played a FPS? Vets with knives > Noobs with rocket launchers.


Lol it pisses the vets off all the time when I suicide myself with that said rocket luancher against thier knifing fest since shotguns for some odd reason dont work all that well and still wind up with a higher kill/death ratio than them.

Dust 514's CPM 1 Iron Wolf Saber Eve mail me about Dust 514 issues.
Ranger 1
Ranger Corp
Vae. Victis.
#42 - 2011-12-29 19:59:20 UTC  |  Edited by: Ranger 1
Guttripper wrote:
Ranger 1 wrote:

Why would they sit around and wait to be called on?

They can enter a match any time they like.

If they prefer they can go take a planet for their own use without being hired by anyone... and keep it too.

Try again?

Let's look at it from a console player's point of view with some assumptions about the game.

If console players were given "phat lewt" from various alliances in previous matches and their actions may have meant something, then why would they run a worthless match using stock options (ammo, guns, vehicles, etc.)? Once they possess a bit of power, I doubt they would be prone to accept being standard again. Or if console players can keep what they gained from previous matches, and thus "advance" in the game, then again, why would they risk their "phat lewt" on a worthless match just to play?

If the alliances today do not seem prone to dump huge amounts of ISK in space ships to destroy each other in epic battles that made the news, then why would the same alliances want to spend ISK for console players on some gaming aspect they may or may not even have a direct influence? Short of the console players having a direct effect upon the alliances, the alliances as a whole probably will not bother supplying "phat lewt". Without the toys, console players will play games that will supply without jumping through hoops.

And since it seems console players will be affecting null security only, if by chance events got drastic out there, then more Eve players will crowd high security planets similar to the introduction of the POCO (and the bitching of my girlfriend about her backwards area of planets being invaded)...

Just some thoughts.



Why would console player engage in High Sec matches in between more important ops?

Well, why do EVE players run missions or rat? To receive rewards. It's very unlikely that the sole source of DUST income will be merc payments.

Likely there will be rewards for doing at least passably well in random matches.
It's already been discussed that there will be BP in DUST for industry, a working market to make money from, and quite probably the ability to do PI for themselves. Since the DUST economy seems to work on a less expensive scale than EVE's economy, any of these pursuits would likely generate substancial income for a DUST player.

Now if a DUST group, whether funded by an EVE alliance or not, decides to take over an alliances planets and this has any sort of negative effect on their SOV (even something as simple as keeping them from attaining full effectiveness from say their Sov benefits) do you really think they will ignore the incursion into their territory? If your pilots start complaining that the number of anomolies has been sharply cut back because you have lost control of the majority of the planets in your home system, you tend to pay attention.

I think there will be plenty of fights to be had, and plenty of motifvation for EVE players to get involved.

View the latest EVE Online developments and other game related news and gameplay by visiting Ranger 1 Presents: Virtual Realms.
Nova Fox
Novafox Shipyards
#43 - 2011-12-29 20:01:26 UTC
Anyways onto another point.

From what I been digging up so far that ultimately no. a dust bunny cannot control space sov only planetary sov.

So how will a bunny threaten sov you ask? Apperantly we spaccers are getting a crud tonn more tools to help 'control' our space sov on those said planets, they wont be responsible for it but oh lets say they get rid of local and the only way to restore local is to install a tower on the ground.

Hostile bunnies take out the towers and basically poke out your eyes allowing enemy scouts to preprosition themselves for the invasion cynos and youll will be utterly so much blinder to where they are at than ever wanted to know about and the worst parts they easily stage up an entire invasion from within your sov in some highly unvisited solar system of yours bridging in reinforcements supplies and safe spotting out.

Dust 514's CPM 1 Iron Wolf Saber Eve mail me about Dust 514 issues.
Nova Fox
Novafox Shipyards
#44 - 2011-12-29 20:06:03 UTC
Does you no good to control waters around the island when the navtives still fericly own it and they have the only refueling station for miles to come.

Dust 514's CPM 1 Iron Wolf Saber Eve mail me about Dust 514 issues.
Valei Khurelem
#45 - 2011-12-29 20:25:44 UTC  |  Edited by: Valei Khurelem
Ranger 1 wrote:
Valei Khurelem wrote:
They need to release this as an expansion for the PC version, what in bloody hell do they think they're doing? If they did it just as an expansion and maybe gave PS3 players the option of joining in their subscriber base would easily go up, why not offer up EVE for free for awhile if they purchase a single player of DUST you could give them a years subscription or something like that.

This kind of system is going to be even more imbalanced than EVE currently is because it will be the people who have the most money RL and not the ones with actual skill that will win in this game which is a ******* shame because I'd love to be able to take a break on Dust and kick some ass on ground while waiting for my skills to train etc. in space.

I can't begin to tell you CCP devs what a huge mistake this is going to be if you actually go through with this. The free to play model does not work for games it only works as a business model and you are a games company not a business despite how your fanbois might try and justify this type of thing while completely ignoring the fact that you're making games and not virtual goods.

If you make Dust like counter-strike and put it on PC you'll have it going on for several years at least and I'm mean, I should be able to shoot a player in the head with ANY weapon and they'll die, or if I shoot them enough they should die and not be immune from a rocket to the gut somehow etc. just ARGH STOP IT STOP LETTING WHOEVERS MAKING DECISIONS FOR YOU DO THIS FFS I'M BEGGING YOU! FIRE THEM! OR DEMOTE THEM!


It may interest you to know that all gaming companies have a business model, many of which are based around free to play. For those that believe that free to play is not a viable business model for a gaming company need to educate themselves. I'd start with looking at the more successful games out of Japan and Korea for a start, then follow up by taking a peek at the incredible success of WOT out of Russia... none of which have the benefit of an inherent balancing mechanic of a secondary player driven economy to remove the pay-to-win aspects.

Apparently you have no issue with people being able to pay cash for what they want in EVE (as an alternative to paying in ISK), yet you maintain that this very same system will somehow ruin game play in DUST. That makes little sense my friend.

What does make sense is that you are angry because DUST was not an expansion of EVE aimed at it's current PC player base, and instead is aimed at a different (and far more lucrative) market.

I sympathize with your disappointment, but that does not mean your justifications make any sense.


And this is why most gaming companies suck now, it is precisely because they have a business model that they can't make games because they're more focused on making what they 'think' will sell and telling players how awesome they are than making the damn game. Think about it, how many trailers have we seen from CCP and other companies that would have taken nearly half a year to complete when they could have spent all that time working on their game and then rushing to finish the actual gameplay?

Games companies like Blizzard and Bioware/EA have massive budgets so they can get away with this type of thing, they spend ages on the trailer and then ages on the gameplay, but other companies can't do this and it's obvious how much it's killing them particularly with a desperate move like the nex store. Also, you say I don't have a problem with people paying cash for stuff in EVE? I do, if you look at my posts I oppose the nex store, I oppose PLEXes but I think it wouldn't be such a bad thing for CCP if they awarded players game time for free if they took part in certain events but that's about as far as I'd go.

Pay to win simply doesn't work because of simple math and free to play can't work with the way people are doing it now

1) Pay to win is imbalanced, players who don't play lose, players who do pay win, that isn't a game, it's some weird and fanciful way of rewarding paying customers and punishing people who don't pay why do any of this? It's just an baffling social experiment based on favourtism.

2) Free to play can only work if the people involved are either dedicated or honest about what they're doing, if you're going to set out to make a free to play game purely to charge people money for it you're basically a lying ****. However there are people out there like modders and open source coders who create fantastic things out of nothing and in some cases end up doing a better job than the people who do it professionally and it shows, see software like Mozilla Firefox for an example. Companies like Microsoft ended up stealing their idea of putting multiple tabs in one window when that came out.

With the way that CCP are putting out Dust they are calling it 'free to play' and then deciding there will be micro-transactions in it so they're basically blatantly lying to their potential customers from the offset, someone in CCP isn't learning and they need a kick in the crotch for it. Also, console players from what I've seen get enough **** from the companies they bought off so if CCP comes along demanding they pay £20 for body armour they're just going to get laughed at, this game will be an extremely saddening failure.

Adding to this, I don't consider a lucrative market to be games that only last for one or two years and then people stop playing them altogether, a successful game for me is something that lasts several years after it has been made.

"don't get us wrong, we don't want to screw new players, on the contrary. The core problem here is that tech 1 frigates and cruisers should be appealing enough to be viable platforms in both PvE and PvP."   - CCP Ytterbium
Camios
Sebiestor Tribe
Minmatar Republic
#46 - 2011-12-29 21:50:47 UTC
I don't see so many problems with DUST success.

There are tens of millions of console FPS players out there, if only 100k get somewhat hooked to DUST it will just work greatly, in my opinion. EVE is alive and well, even without a million of subscribers. What are the keywords of this success? Niche, hardcore.

In the end DUST will be a niche product, and it can survive this way, but only if the EVE connection is meaningful and, over all, necessary. if DUST is only linked to PI, then it will not be interesting enough, unless PI becomes crucial itself for sovereignty.

In short, EVE must change to accomodate DUST. PI must increase in importance for sov holding, making the Sov affair even more complicated. This will require development time, and there is no spare of it: highsec wardec mechanics need an urgent fix, lowsec and factional warfare have been promised a fix since so-long-ago-I-don't-even-remember-when, and nullsec has a really long way to go.

On a side note, notice in the linked blog how DUST514 is totally ignored.
J Kunjeh
#47 - 2011-12-29 21:51:33 UTC
Signal11th wrote:

Unfortunately the game already has an air of failure about it which is a shame.


Lolol...good stuff. You must only hang out on the Eve-O forums, eh?

"The world as we know it came about through an anomaly (anomou)" (The Gospel of Philip, 1-5) 
isk4trade
Cogitation Mining and Industrial Trading
#48 - 2011-12-29 22:01:20 UTC
Welp ... after reading all your replies ... some of whiich did maybe get a bit off the beaten path but are still relevent ...

I have decided to wait and see ...

I also have decided that I think that maybe CCP and Sony and everyone else involved are going to find it absolutely impossible to overcome the obstacles of platform prejudice, coordination of DUST players with EVE players, actual game mechanics and how the two games will IN DETAIL interact with each other, the lack of empowerment for the DUST people that will be evident (they, afterall, will be our employees or contractors in a small part of a much huger Galaxy that is EVE, plus coordinate the monetary issues and all the currencies involved.

TLDR : I think the merging of DUST and EVE will probably end up to be a MASSIVE car and train and meteor wreck if it even does ever find itself with a consensus from all parties involved as to the DETAILS of HOW these two different game-types / platforms / mentalities / economies might interact with each other from the begininning.

I guess what is left is ... I wonder if they will try to FORCE it into being with the assurance that "it will all work itself out as a huge social experiment" and how much horrendous disruption this may cause in our beloved New Eden should they NOT come to grips with an EXTREMELY good plan for their integration and just toss it on the market due to fact that so much has and will be invested in it.

me
Ranger 1
Ranger Corp
Vae. Victis.
#49 - 2011-12-29 23:21:44 UTC  |  Edited by: Ranger 1
Quote:
And this is why most gaming companies suck now, it is precisely because they have a business model that they can't make games because they're more focused on making what they 'think' will sell and telling players how awesome they are than making the damn game. Think about it, how many trailers have we seen from CCP and other companies that would have taken nearly half a year to complete when they could have spent all that time working on their game and then rushing to finish the actual game play?

Games companies like Blizzard and Bioware/EA have massive budgets so they can get away with this type of thing, they spend ages on the trailer and then ages on the gameplay, but other companies can't do this and it's obvious how much it's killing them particularly with a desperate move like the nex store. Also, you say I don't have a problem with people paying cash for stuff in EVE? I do, if you look at my posts I oppose the nex store, I oppose PLEXes but I think it wouldn't be such a bad thing for CCP if they awarded players game time for free if they took part in certain events but that's about as far as I'd go.


Wow.

Okay, all companies (gaming or otherwise) have a business model. If they did not, their product would never reach completion. I don't think you actually understand what a business model is, and games must make money or they cease to exist.

The people that make promotional video's have nothing what-so-ever to do with creating the game.

Quote:
1) Pay to win is imbalanced, players who don't play lose, players who do pay win, that isn't a game, it's some weird and fanciful way of rewarding paying customers and punishing people who don't pay why do any of this? It's just an baffling social experiment based on favoritism.


I play WOT, which is blatantly PTW, and have never paid a dime... I do quite well thank you. Not that it isn't difficult as I don't have access to the more powerful ammunition, but fortunately we will never have to worry about that in either EVE or DUST. Unlike WOT anything you can buy for cash you can also purchase via resale for in game currency. In that economy, PtoW simply cannot exist.

Quote:
2) Free to play can only work if the people involved are either dedicated or honest about what they're doing, if you're going to set out to make a free to play game purely to charge people money for it you're basically a lying ****. However there are people out there like modders and open source coders who create fantastic things out of nothing and in some cases end up doing a better job than the people who do it professionally and it shows, see software like Mozilla Firefox for an example. Companies like Microsoft ended up stealing their idea of putting multiple tabs in one window when that came out.


You are confusing Free to Play with open source.

Quote:
With the way that CCP are putting out Dust they are calling it 'free to play' and then deciding there will be micro-transactions in it so they're basically blatantly lying to their potential customers from the offset, someone in CCP isn't learning and they need a kick in the crotch for it. Also, console players from what I've seen get enough **** from the companies they bought off so if CCP comes along demanding they pay £20 for body armour they're just going to get laughed at, this game will be an extremely saddening failure.

Adding to this, I don't consider a lucrative market to be games that only last for one or two years and then people stop playing them altogether, a successful game for me is something that lasts several years after it has been made.


Fortunately, most gamers are fully aware that Free to Play games are supported by MicroTransactions... even though that information is cleverly hidden in the advertising, reviews, and text on the box it comes in.

We have already seen example of the price in ISK for various items in DUST. Convert it to AURUM and do the math.

Well, some would disagree with you and call making $50 million or so in the first year a success. Blink However it's fortunate for us that CCP has designed DUST from the ground up to be a consistent money maker that is constantly updated like EVE, as opposed to an annual new release business model.

Oh, there's that confusing phrase again... Big smile

View the latest EVE Online developments and other game related news and gameplay by visiting Ranger 1 Presents: Virtual Realms.
Nova Fox
Novafox Shipyards
#50 - 2011-12-30 03:02:41 UTC
Didnt they say they are going to do the same free expansion cycles as eve?

Dust 514's CPM 1 Iron Wolf Saber Eve mail me about Dust 514 issues.
Mirima Thurander
#51 - 2011-12-30 03:22:12 UTC
look at it this way you can buy big piles of isk in EvE with RL cash but you don't see everyone doing it why?

it simply costs WAY to much to get an advantage


same thing with dust, you want that uber gun NOW! well you best buy a plex and sell it for isk



so long as there no

CASH -> CCP made magicked item

an it stays

CASH -> PLEX -> Isks -> item

i see nothing wrong with it.

All automated intel should be removed from the game including Instant local/jumps/kills/cynos for all systems/regions.Eve should report nothing like this to the client/3rd party software.Intel should not be force fed to players. Player skill and iniative should be the sources of intel.
Herping yourDerp
Tribal Liberation Force
Minmatar Republic
#52 - 2011-12-30 03:49:58 UTC
Chevy Hakoke wrote:
This may be CCP's Waterloo. I seriously think someone (probably the same people who said Incarna was a good idea) told the executives "HEY FPS GAMES ARE ALL THE RAGE, AND THE CONSOLE HAS MORE GAMERS THEN THE PC... SOOOOO
CONSOLE+ FPS WILL BRING THE BEST OF BOTH WORLD'S TOGETHER... THIS CAN'T FAIL, YOUR GONNA MAKE TONS OF CASH"

Reasons Dust will fail.... horribly

REASON 1
Most FPSes usually flop because the market is saturated with them, and if they do well its very short lived.... so what happens when DUST players move on?
dust will probably also be a launch title for PS4 maybe even nextbox, also with possible free expansions potential for longevity is high. many shooters "die off" but have a fanbase that remains, you can still get COD4 matches, and until shutdown halo 2 matches were also possible.

REASON 2
FPSers have little patience, they want instant gratification NOW.... you think they are gonna wait for you to pick them up/drop them off? You think excuses like "Sorry they set up a bubble" will make sense to them? Eve is a game of patience, FPSers don't have that.
this is false, as long as the player feels meaningful progression they will continue. little patience is only compared to MMO players who take months to get to max level. of course there are some impatient kids on cod.

REASON 3
FPSer are known to be cheap... if you mention anything about a PC they will say "Yeah right, so I have to buy a thousand dollar computer just to play a $50 game?" So I can only imagine how they will react when they see the game ask them for real money just to stay competitive
expensive is just the number 1 reason console gamers will not go PC. controls, cheaters, and the fact that some games just plain won't work. console you get a game and it WILL work.. gamers just want to put the disk in join a party chat or game and just play.

REASON 4
If DUST doesn't get a 9 or higher on the gaming review sites, forget about it. According to FPSers that game has been deemed unplayable, I mean look how they rage when a popular game gets a anything lower then a 9.5. I doubt DUST will get a 9 since its treading on sacred HALO territory (Space FPS). Not to mention the first ever pay to play FPS on consoles will lose BIG points come review day
this is again false, homefront sold something like 2million copies and had a 7.0, and it was a pretty decent game. "sacred halo territory?? star wars battlefront was huge, so was mass effect ( kinda a shooter). if the game is good it will pass through word of mouth, also isn't it supposed to be a download game that is like $20?

REASON 5
As touched upon in reason 1, players WILL LEAVE
Eve's "Wait 2 year until you can be effective" leveling system WON'T WORK in the FPS console world cause console players want to be LEET NOW, not a year.... or even a week from now. When they do move on, what happens to Dust?
instead of SP/hour XP/kill... wow that was hard. now this entire issue is fixed.

REASON 6
From what I hear, you have to be dropped off at a Planet by another ship.... tell me what alliance/corp would let a hostile even close to his space, let alone let them land a force there? Even if they do land, how will they be reinforced since now the whole corp/alliance knows where the landing party is a will send in an army of guys to instantly wipe them out. Wheres the fun in that for the FPSer?
Land-See little to no resistance-Have reinforcements cut off-Get overran/Repeat
this is an unknown. maybe some PI buildings will be expensive, and killing enemy dust mercs would mean you kill your building. maybe dust mercs can have some sort of plantary ECM or shield around their areas. we will find out later i suppose.

REASON 7
According to what I'm hearing the only thing DUST players will fight over are Planets. Have you ever heard of a EVE war that was over Planets? You notice that most Planets aren't even occupied with CCs. Even if you did have the option to take Tech Moons, how long would that last? Since friendly ship won't be able to use the planet/moon/station (Refer to Reason 6).
If thats the main attraction for DUST then you can count it a failure before it even comes out.

planets could easily become the next sovernty control system.

REASON 8
No PC... REALLY?
The place where 100% of you revenue comes from will be completely cut out in favor of consoles? I heard the argument that too many EVE players would stop playing EVE and start playing DUST instead. All I have to say to this logic is WTF
PC shooters died in like 2002. face it, grow up ect. yes CCP gets all their money from pc players, but the thing is, they want a new market, not the same market. also look at it this way
almost no on in the console world knows wtf CCP is. or what eve online is, hell many PC people don't know what it is Dust will an advertisement for eve online.


-My 2 isk

now don't get me wrong, i don't think dust will be a huge hit, but i think it will be a decent game with some wtf issues. i also think sales will be mediocre due to being ps3 exclusive in not on xbox ( face it, xbox sells twice as many shooters as ps3.)

i DO hope dust is good, but i think it will end up being just another shooter if it becomes a next gen game in any way it could continue to be played well but if it isn't then it will be near dead in year at best.

what worries me is the payment thing.. if its mostly cosmetic stuff, or bonus XP hours, or things that no one really cares about then it will be fine, but if they have the Battlefield play for free or battlefield heroes broken weapon rentals then the game is in trouble.
Ranger 1
Ranger Corp
Vae. Victis.
#53 - 2011-12-30 04:07:50 UTC
Nova Fox wrote:
Didnt they say they are going to do the same free expansion cycles as eve?


Yes. It is one of the main features that sets it apart from the rest of the herd.

View the latest EVE Online developments and other game related news and gameplay by visiting Ranger 1 Presents: Virtual Realms.
Herzog Wolfhammer
Sigma Special Tactics Group
#54 - 2011-12-30 04:34:06 UTC
Nova Fox wrote:
Anyways onto another point.

From what I been digging up so far that ultimately no. a dust bunny cannot control space sov only planetary sov.

So how will a bunny threaten sov you ask? Apperantly we spaccers are getting a crud tonn more tools to help 'control' our space sov on those said planets, they wont be responsible for it but oh lets say they get rid of local and the only way to restore local is to install a tower on the ground.

Hostile bunnies take out the towers and basically poke out your eyes allowing enemy scouts to preprosition themselves for the invasion cynos and youll will be utterly so much blinder to where they are at than ever wanted to know about and the worst parts they easily stage up an entire invasion from within your sov in some highly unvisited solar system of yours bridging in reinforcements supplies and safe spotting out.



Me likey -

But how many dust bunnies will like getting killed in the hold of a bubbled transport?

This could mean.... controllable wormholes to any system, "Sansha Style"?

It's about time we learned from the Sleepers like Sansha has already.

Bring back DEEEEP Space!
DeMichael Crimson
Republic University
Minmatar Republic
#55 - 2011-12-30 05:25:46 UTC
Herzog Wolfhammer wrote:
Nova Fox wrote:
Anyways onto another point.

From what I been digging up so far that ultimately no. a dust bunny cannot control space sov only planetary sov.

So how will a bunny threaten sov you ask? Apperantly we spaccers are getting a crud tonn more tools to help 'control' our space sov on those said planets, they wont be responsible for it but oh lets say they get rid of local and the only way to restore local is to install a tower on the ground.

Hostile bunnies take out the towers and basically poke out your eyes allowing enemy scouts to preprosition themselves for the invasion cynos and youll will be utterly so much blinder to where they are at than ever wanted to know about and the worst parts they easily stage up an entire invasion from within your sov in some highly unvisited solar system of yours bridging in reinforcements supplies and safe spotting out.



Me likey -

But how many dust bunnies will like getting killed in the hold of a bubbled transport?

This could mean.... controllable wormholes to any system, "Sansha Style"?

It's about time we learned from the Sleepers like Sansha has already.



Give a boost to Blk Ops ships and have them do Cov jumps.

'The Plan' | California Eve Players | Proposal - The Endless Battle
Herzog Wolfhammer
Sigma Special Tactics Group
#56 - 2011-12-30 06:11:20 UTC
DeMichael Crimson wrote:
Herzog Wolfhammer wrote:
Nova Fox wrote:
Anyways onto another point.

From what I been digging up so far that ultimately no. a dust bunny cannot control space sov only planetary sov.

So how will a bunny threaten sov you ask? Apperantly we spaccers are getting a crud tonn more tools to help 'control' our space sov on those said planets, they wont be responsible for it but oh lets say they get rid of local and the only way to restore local is to install a tower on the ground.

Hostile bunnies take out the towers and basically poke out your eyes allowing enemy scouts to preprosition themselves for the invasion cynos and youll will be utterly so much blinder to where they are at than ever wanted to know about and the worst parts they easily stage up an entire invasion from within your sov in some highly unvisited solar system of yours bridging in reinforcements supplies and safe spotting out.



Me likey -

But how many dust bunnies will like getting killed in the hold of a bubbled transport?

This could mean.... controllable wormholes to any system, "Sansha Style"?

It's about time we learned from the Sleepers like Sansha has already.



Give a boost to Blk Ops ships and have them do Cov jumps.



Didn't think of that.

Bring back DEEEEP Space!
Varr Dorn
Blue Flame Ore Excavations
#57 - 2011-12-30 06:52:43 UTC
I've been reading up on Dust a bit and am looking forward to how it plays out. As far as the gameplay between "player driven" matches (i.e. hired by and dropped off by a corporation), I would say it would most likely play out like High-sec eve right now, a la missions.

I would think the easiest way to deal with a large amount of players sitting around (between major engagements or casual players looking for a quick match) would be to simply create agents for Dust based factional warfare/missions/whatever. When they have a big op to prep for they can do that, when they don't, then they can run the missions or play something else.

Maybe there will even be 'starbase/training' fights where you could fight in a limited map (doom type maps maybe) so that you could 'train' with your own corp in a limited area without having a specific goal (i.e. the pressure of knocking out a planet)
Nova Fox
Novafox Shipyards
#58 - 2011-12-30 07:31:58 UTC
Low Sec Planets are all faction warfare planets the empires will be hiring mercs on a constant basis to give the mercs some 'quick matches.'

Serious mercs however are funded by player empires just like any good army will be. Allainces will promote certain members of those corps to be generals and have them manage thier wars and divvy out thier money.

Traditional Clans who find themselves in Dust 514 are going to find out that they are going to need ALOT more members than usual as well to fight the war 24/7 even though fights at first will be limited.

Dust 514's CPM 1 Iron Wolf Saber Eve mail me about Dust 514 issues.
Avensys
The Waterworks
#59 - 2011-12-30 07:58:07 UTC
Disdaine wrote:
Xavier Quo wrote:

Also if this takes off in the highly competitive way it needs to, in 6 months every regular non casual PS3 player will be using mouse and keyboard adaptors. hopefully then the PC release will come.


Controller only.

citation needed.

Quote:
We are dedicated to making a smooth integration for the SONY Move. But we also want to allow choices for the players. Some may prefer DS3, while others may go with Move and still others might want to use keyboard and mouse. We will be providing more details on this later on.
Guttripper
State War Academy
Caldari State
#60 - 2011-12-30 10:30:57 UTC
Ranger 1 wrote:
(snipped...)

It's already been discussed that there will be BP in DUST for industry, a working market to make money from, and quite probably the ability to do PI for themselves. Since the DUST economy seems to work on a less expensive scale than EVE's economy, any of these pursuits would likely generate substancial income for a DUST player.


So it seems Dust will not be a full-blown shooter but more a hybrid of active (shooting) and passive (industry, market, planetary interaction) events. Again, going on my original premise as the mindset of a console player, action has to be fast and furious _now_. I want to zerg rush you _now_, not play farmville in space and wait a couple hours to days for my armor division to be built. I want to set-up my farming / gathering aspects early and let it automate. I would not want to deal with the various aspects of one industry job creating ammo with another creating tanks with another creating weapons all finishing at various times. Meanwhile, gaming world in Eve is just the complete opposite - moments of intense action followed by extemely long stretches of nothingness as industry and market order come to bloom.


Ranger 1 wrote:
Now if a DUST group, whether funded by an EVE alliance or not, decides to take over an alliances planets and this has any sort of negative effect on their SOV (even something as simple as keeping them from attaining full effectiveness from say their Sov benefits) do you really think they will ignore the incursion into their territory? If your pilots start complaining that the number of anomolies has been sharply cut back because you have lost control of the majority of the planets in your home system, you tend to pay attention.

I think there will be plenty of fights to be had, and plenty of motifvation for EVE players to get involved.


But doesn't this reinforce what the original poster was asking - the more you pay, the more you win?

Let's look at this from a different angle - in Eve, trust is an aspect that is quite rare. Alliances (for the most part) seem to trust their members within the game. Yet with the introduction of Dust, players are asked to trust complete strangers to perform various missions for them without turning onto them. From the mindset of a console player, blasting Humpty Dumpty to Mittens to Sir Molle to (gobbledy-**** name here) means squat except they get to blast stuff at a fast and furious pace. So if players are getting burned back and forth with console players, short of just accepting it, they will have to pay out real life monies to join them - gaming system and subscription. To keep their edge over any potential rivals, they will feel the need to buy the most expensive goods. And since everything will not be available from the beginning, "Titan Blaster" for $10 is available today. Next month CCP releases, "Planet Busters" (kudos to "Alpha Centauri") for $50. Then a few months down the line, CCP releases "Galaxy Scorcher" for a mere $250. Unless there is a direct counter option within Eve itself that can be invented and manufactured, the overall influence Dust may or may not have on Eve will either extend or quicken its falloff.

A perfect balance would have to be reached from the the four quandrants of least and most extreme in Dust along with the least and most extreme in Eve. But then once CCP introduces something else, how does this new "thing" play into the balance?

And at what overall real life money cost?

Just more food for though.