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Quafe Convoy Destroyed By Caldari Forces On Caldari-Gallente Border
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Valerie Valate
Church of The Crimson Saviour
#41 - 2017-03-25 21:06:16 UTC
I, for one, am surprised that Quafe products are so volatile as to explode with sufficient force, that there would be no survivors from a ship carrying a cargo of Quafe products.

Doctor V. Valate, Professor of Archaeology at Kaztropolis Imperial University.
Charles Cambridge Schmidt
Nadire Security Consultants
Federation Peacekeepers
#42 - 2017-03-25 21:15:56 UTC
Valerie Valate wrote:
I, for one, am surprised that Quafe products are so volatile as to explode with sufficient force, that there would be no survivors from a ship carrying a cargo of Quafe products.


This caught me, too. Even in cruiser-class vessels, a sufficiently destructive event still leaves a few crewmen who were lucky enough to reach secure panic-room bulkheads or otherwise. Someone means to tell me that trade vessels - first off, unsupported by even a meager escort fleet that wouldn't have had to even follow them out - have no security against attack? Do you mean to tell me that seven freighters died so quickly that no one survived? Killing a freighter takes time. Especially if one fleet is trying to down seven, all at the same time, without primary.

And if there was primary, the others would have had some time to get to relative safety, or escape pods.

So.

Just wondering 'bout the whole "let's make sure there aren't survivors" thing.

I don't care what you think, as long as it's about me.
Agiri Falken
Akagi Initiative
#43 - 2017-03-25 21:26:17 UTC
Charles Cambridge Schmidt wrote:
Valerie Valate wrote:
I, for one, am surprised that Quafe products are so volatile as to explode with sufficient force, that there would be no survivors from a ship carrying a cargo of Quafe products.


This caught me, too. Even in cruiser-class vessels, a sufficiently destructive event still leaves a few crewmen who were lucky enough to reach secure panic-room bulkheads or otherwise. Someone means to tell me that trade vessels - first off, unsupported by even a meager escort fleet that wouldn't have had to even follow them out - have no security against attack? Do you mean to tell me that seven freighters died so quickly that no one survived? Killing a freighter takes time. Especially if one fleet is trying to down seven, all at the same time, without primary.

And if there was primary, the others would have had some time to get to relative safety, or escape pods.

So.

Just wondering 'bout the whole "let's make sure there aren't survivors" thing.

Know what looks a lot like Quafe? Binary liquids. An out there theory, but it would fit what you're thinking here.

It does take a lot to just outright gut an Obelisk, doesn't it? And how didn't anyone get into an escape pod in that time?
Ayallah
Brutor Tribe
Minmatar Republic
#44 - 2017-03-25 21:55:20 UTC
Torpedo ships, high power blaster platforms, and supercarriers are all capable of destroying a freighter in seconds. It does not necessarily mean that the State fired upon escape pods that no one escaped, they could simply have not had enough warning.

Goddess of the IGS

As strength goes.
Charles Cambridge Schmidt
Nadire Security Consultants
Federation Peacekeepers
#45 - 2017-03-25 22:32:55 UTC
Ayallah wrote:
Torpedo ships, high power blaster platforms, and supercarriers are all capable of destroying a freighter in seconds. It does not necessarily mean that the State fired upon escape pods that no one escaped, they could simply have not had enough warning.


Doesn't a fleet like that take time to prepare, to assemble, and organize? This would have most likely meant they would have been warned, if not threatened, ahead of time. Things still aren't adding up.

I don't care what you think, as long as it's about me.
Jade Blackwind
#46 - 2017-03-25 22:33:08 UTC  |  Edited by: Jade Blackwind
Charles Cambridge Schmidt wrote:
Valerie Valate wrote:
I, for one, am surprised that Quafe products are so volatile as to explode with sufficient force, that there would be no survivors from a ship carrying a cargo of Quafe products.


This caught me, too. Even in cruiser-class vessels, a sufficiently destructive event still leaves a few crewmen who were lucky enough to reach secure panic-room bulkheads or otherwise. Someone means to tell me that trade vessels - first off, unsupported by even a meager escort fleet that wouldn't have had to even follow them out - have no security against attack? Do you mean to tell me that seven freighters died so quickly that no one survived? Killing a freighter takes time. Especially if one fleet is trying to down seven, all at the same time, without primary.

And if there was primary, the others would have had some time to get to relative safety, or escape pods.

So.

Just wondering 'bout the whole "let's make sure there aren't survivors" thing.


When I was 14, I survived the destruction of a deadspace facility. A case of your generic "civilian in a can". So, just thinking based on my own experience.

When a large enough structure, be it an Obelisk, or a Wreathe, or an Angel depot, explodes, there will be a few survivors in the pods or in the wreck. For a while.

If there are none, then a doomsday class weapon was used, or there was no rescue operation at all, or it was withheld for 2+ hours until the survivors were out of oxygen.

So. Either those freighters were full of explosives, or our Caldari friends deliberately ensured that there are no one left to tell the tale.
Nevyn Auscent
Broke Sauce
#47 - 2017-03-25 22:51:07 UTC
Charles Cambridge Schmidt wrote:

Doesn't a fleet like that take time to prepare, to assemble, and organize? This would have most likely meant they would have been warned, if not threatened, ahead of time. Things still aren't adding up.

Capsuleers routinely destroy freighters in seconds all day every day around the trade hubs and routes. Why are you surprised that a force capable of destroying freighters rapidly is deployed on a border between two empires currently at high tensions.....

Also surviving in a 'can' in a facility is quite different to surviving in a wreck where the warp core is breached and goes critical. If you aren't in a suit, and don't make a pod... well.... bad things.
Compared to the warheads or ammunition that get thrown at things, conventional planetary explosives also aren't significantly damaging.

So yeah, not buying into this whole 'they were carrying bombs' thing here.
Ayallah
Brutor Tribe
Minmatar Republic
#48 - 2017-03-25 23:34:53 UTC  |  Edited by: Ayallah
Charles Cambridge Schmidt wrote:
Doesn't a fleet like that take time to prepare, to assemble, and organize? This would have most likely meant they would have been warned, if not threatened, ahead of time. Things still aren't adding up.
I assume they were already pre-staged at the border.

I should mention also that a supercarrier can comfortably alpha strike a freighter. A few seconds worth of warning is not a lot of time especially for the crew of a soft drinks company. These are not combat ships and not capsuleer crews, the fact there were no survivors does not automatically have to mean that there is anything more to this than overwhelming force used.

Goddess of the IGS

As strength goes.
Teinyhr
Ourumur
#49 - 2017-03-26 00:00:59 UTC
Supercarriers aren't standard border security at least where I come from. There were 7 freighters, so certainly some of them would have caught a whiff of what happened to the others and managed to alert and save at least a few of their people. The "no survivors at all" simply smells too damn fishy to completely ignore. Something about this is just not right, but as usual, we just have to wait and see what it was.
Claudia Osyn
Non-Hostile Target
Wild Geese.
#50 - 2017-03-26 00:37:50 UTC
Well, if nothing else, the market for capsuleer trading between the Federation and the State is solidly in our favor. I wonder just how much Quafe will pay us to make those runs now that nobody else can...

A little trust goes a long way. The less you use, the further you'll go.
Charles Cambridge Schmidt
Nadire Security Consultants
Federation Peacekeepers
#51 - 2017-03-26 01:14:00 UTC
Claudia Osyn wrote:
Well, if nothing else, the market for capsuleer trading between the Federation and the State is solidly in our favor. I wonder just how much Quafe will pay us to make those runs now that nobody else can...


EDIT -- I was censored, woe is me. I'll call you what it wouldn't let me, but sterilized:

Butthead.

I don't care what you think, as long as it's about me.
Valerie Valate
Church of The Crimson Saviour
#52 - 2017-03-26 10:04:12 UTC
My point is based on principles of naval architecture, and should stand regardless of the firepower used. Compartmentalisation and bulkhead design should mean there would always be some survivors in some compartments of the ship, even in the event of a catastrophic internal explosion.

The exception, is extreme volatile cargoes, which could crush internal bulkheads in a catastrophic internal explosion of sufficient force.

I have prepared a simple diagram for this lecture.

Doctor V. Valate, Professor of Archaeology at Kaztropolis Imperial University.
Diana Kim
State Protectorate
Caldari State
#53 - 2017-03-26 12:53:45 UTC
Arrendis wrote:
Diana Kim wrote:
That will show them how to ignore Caldari orders on Caldari border!

Glory to the State!


You mean the orders saying 'Federation vessels can't come in'?

Because these were Caldari citizens engaged in the still totally legal act of taking ships out of State space.


Whaaat? "Caldari citizens"? Because Quaffe said so? Listen to them more, and you'll go massacre babies in the name of Freedom.

But you know what, Quaffe got popped. Glory to the State!

Arrendis wrote:

Sounds like it was the Caldari Navy who needs to learn how to follow orders.

Will give lessons about gatecamping for 300m isk/hour. Not to the Navy of course, to you. They know what they are doing. P

Honored are the dead, for their legacy guides us.

In memory of Tibus Heth, Caldari State Executor YC110-115, Hero and Patriot.
Diana Kim
State Protectorate
Caldari State
#54 - 2017-03-26 13:09:08 UTC
Elsebeth Rhiannon wrote:
They said they'll close borders.

Then they actually closed borders and enforced it.

Now everyone is shocked.

Not everyone. Just pro-gallentean oriented pilots. Just as Quafe does a drama from it, so do Makotos, Sayas and other inconvenient for the State personalities.

For Caldari, it was just a work on Saturday.
Though, admit it, the kills were pretty good! I wish I could catch something like that myself!

So, good job! And Glory to the State!

Honored are the dead, for their legacy guides us.

In memory of Tibus Heth, Caldari State Executor YC110-115, Hero and Patriot.
Salome Arran
Pator Tech School
Minmatar Republic
#55 - 2017-03-26 13:12:36 UTC
Valerie Valate wrote:
My point is based on principles of naval architecture, and should stand regardless of the firepower used. Compartmentalisation and bulkhead design should mean there would always be some survivors in some compartments of the ship, even in the event of a catastrophic internal explosion.

The exception, is extreme volatile cargoes, which could crush internal bulkheads in a catastrophic internal explosion of sufficient force.

I have prepared a simple diagram for this lecture.

I can think of a few scenarios where there wouldn't be survivors...

But all of them have to do with actual efforts to deliberately make a ship internally unsound, and a literally absolute dedication to zero preparation on the part of every single member of the crew.

The cruiser I served on took a magazine hit once. That was a lot of Boom on a MUCH smaller, less heavily reinforced ship. But most of the crew survived, and the ship was still spaceworthy thanks to blowout channels, panels, and internal compartmentalization.

So what the HELL were those ships hauling?

Or are State missile payloads just THAT deadly?
Deitra Vess
Non-Hostile Target
Wild Geese.
#56 - 2017-03-26 14:04:45 UTC
Diana Kim wrote:

Though, admit it, the kills were pretty good! I wish I could catch something like that myself!

So, good job! And Glory to the State!

You can't land tackle on a freighter? I'll admit several at once is an accomplishment for a single tackle pilot, but i highly doubt it was one tackle pilot.
Julianus Soter
Blades of Liberty
#57 - 2017-03-26 14:26:08 UTC
Valerie Valate wrote:
My point is based on principles of naval architecture, and should stand regardless of the firepower used. Compartmentalisation and bulkhead design should mean there would always be some survivors in some compartments of the ship, even in the event of a catastrophic internal explosion.

The exception, is extreme volatile cargoes, which could crush internal bulkheads in a catastrophic internal explosion of sufficient force.

I have prepared a simple diagram for this lecture.


The alternative, of course, is that there were survivors, and that they were detained and relocated to holding facilities without any notification to Quafe Company. For interrogation.

I have posted a denouncement of this action on the official Kyonoke Inquest communications channels. I expect all loyal members of Wiyrkomi and Ishukone corporation to immediately denounce this inhuman and savage act of interstellar piracy.

Regards,

Soter

Moira. Corporation CEO, Executor, Villore Accords, @Julianus_Soter https://zkillboard.com/alliance/99001634/
Jev North
Doomheim
#58 - 2017-03-26 15:00:17 UTC
Julianus Soter wrote:
I expect all loyal members of Wiyrkomi and Ishukone corporation to immediately denounce this inhuman and savage act of interstellar piracy.

Or.. what, exactly?

Even though our love is cruel; even though our stars are crossed.
Valerie Valate
Church of The Crimson Saviour
#59 - 2017-03-26 15:13:36 UTC
Jev North wrote:
Julianus Soter wrote:
I expect all loyal members of Wiyrkomi and Ishukone corporation to immediately denounce this inhuman and savage act of interstellar piracy.

Or.. what, exactly?


Or a Strong Letter of Condemnation will be sent to you.

Doctor V. Valate, Professor of Archaeology at Kaztropolis Imperial University.
Julianus Soter
Blades of Liberty
#60 - 2017-03-26 15:18:09 UTC
History will judge those that stand beside those that killed the people in those freighters. I need not lift a finger.

Moira. Corporation CEO, Executor, Villore Accords, @Julianus_Soter https://zkillboard.com/alliance/99001634/