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BREAKING NEWS - Federal Intelligence Office Begins Investigating Terro
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Aria Jenneth
Societas Imperialis Sceptri Coronaeque
Khimi Harar
#81 - 2017-03-19 08:19:55 UTC
Myxx wrote:
As far as avengers go, most people that actually have the power or force of will to do that also have the power and will to defend their assets from attack with even a modicum of force behind it. That they didn't step in is more telling than anything else, in my opinion.


There were defenders. Electus Matari.

It wasn't enough.
Charles Cambridge Schmidt
Nadire Security Consultants
Federation Peacekeepers
#82 - 2017-03-19 12:00:15 UTC
Fun fun how the State is so conflicted over the K-Plague that there's even in-fighting between the corporations and a suspiciously tight-lipped group of CEOs.

I don't care what you think, as long as it's about me.
Saya Ishikari
Ishukone-Raata Technological Research Institute
Ishuk-Raata Enforcement Directive
#83 - 2017-03-19 13:18:43 UTC
The only conflict is over involvement with the Federation. Competition is the norm. And there is never an obligation on our end to involve anyone else in our decisions.

Honestly, given the insistent pushing of the narrative that we're weaponizing Kyonoke, and testing it on our own citizens, by those who I know are smart enough to know better, I'm hard pressed to see any advantage at all in being transparent, that isn't outweighed by the perceived need to mollify their sense of social justice.

I've heard, numerous times as of late, how the jaijii have "lost respect" for us.

You can't lose what you never had.

And I, personally, won't further bother you with any efforts on my part to be anything but another "State loyalist", since that's clearly all that will ever be seen.

"At the end of it all, we have only what we've left in our wake to be remembered by." -Kyoko Ishikari, YC 95 - YC 117
Arrendis
TK Corp
#84 - 2017-03-19 14:24:35 UTC
Charles Cambridge Schmidt wrote:
a suspiciously tight-lipped group of CEOs.


Don't be silly. Of course they're tight-lipped. They're competitors, in a situation where there's already been significant public backlash. Nobody's going to risk saying anything that one of the others might be able to spin to make them look bad later.
TomHorn
Horn Brothers Holdings Inc.
#85 - 2017-03-19 14:40:16 UTC
Arrendis
TK Corp
#86 - 2017-03-19 15:28:35 UTC
Looks like the people here aren't only ones who didn't understand the careful wording of Mssr. Gaterau.
Makoto Priano
Kirkinen-Arataka Transhuman Zenith Consulting Ltd.
Arataka Research Consortium
#87 - 2017-03-19 15:38:41 UTC
So, I've been thinking on that, Arrendis.

The question is essentially semantic, whether one believes that the first (Caldari nationalist) and second statements (unknown quantity) are linked or in opposition.

If it's in opposition, then he's saying he explicitly does not believe that it's an extremist Caldari nationalist, based on personal review. I'd've expected Gaterau to say that the investigation was to rule out that the attack was 'extremist Caldari Nationalist,' rather than to merely ascertain, in that case. What's more, I would not have expected other FIO figureheads to repeat this focus, as the more recent Scope article indicates.

I think it's fair to say that our view is that they're linked, with the subsequent statements clarifying that FIO doesn't believe this to be a State or Mega operation, but an unknown Caldari nationalist.

Now, to be honest, I wouldn't be surprised if some of the terrorists involved are Caldari. I would be very surprised if the terrorists are nationalist in nature, for reasons we've discussed. What's more, my concerns on FIO and confirmation bias remain.

Itsukame-Zainou Hyperspatial Inquiries: exploring the edge of the known, advancing the state of the art. Would you like to know more?
Yuwei Sung
Federal Defense Union
Gallente Federation
#88 - 2017-03-19 16:03:47 UTC
FIO has overplayed it's hand a little bit, I think. The State came out looking rather foolish following the walk-out, but now the Federation is coming across as hounding them, and trying to ascribe a nationalist motive is a very odd move when the lions share of the victims are Caldari.
Aria Jenneth
Societas Imperialis Sceptri Coronaeque
Khimi Harar
#89 - 2017-03-19 16:31:29 UTC
As an aside, I've received word that Sanxing is in fact working on rebuilding and that Xun Yu retired for unrelated reasons.

So, good for them!
Jev North
Doomheim
#90 - 2017-03-19 16:51:05 UTC
Good.

Even though our love is cruel; even though our stars are crossed.
Ayallah
Brutor Tribe
Minmatar Republic
#91 - 2017-03-19 16:52:56 UTC  |  Edited by: Ayallah
How can they say to not be involved? Was it not their security that was breached, their speck stolen?

The State is far too concerned with acting like the outbreak of the speck from their space is not their fault. The FIO is getting under their skin if they can make them look like fools so easily.

Not involved in the breach, pretending like there is not enough attention on the fact that there is more than one quarantine in the cluster. I know that the people of solitude and the Federation are aware that the speck is on their doorstep as well. You do not forget super-infections are around.

The only propaganda is the State's indignation that the other nations wish to find out how this happened. How this super-infection from the State got out in the first place. A dead Caldari officer but they had no involvement last month. What about years ago State?

Perhaps your 'around the clock persistent guard' should have been more involved. Then maybe there would be less questions.

Goddess of the IGS

As strength goes.
Aria Jenneth
Societas Imperialis Sceptri Coronaeque
Khimi Harar
#92 - 2017-03-19 16:59:59 UTC
Ayallah wrote:
How can they say to not be involved? Was it not their security that was breached, their speck stolen?

The State is far too concerned with acting like the outbreak of the speck from their space is not their fault. The FIO is getting under their skin if they can make them look like fools so easily.

Not involved in the breach, pretending like there is not enough attention on the fact that there is more than one quarantine in the cluster. I know that the people of solitude and the Federation are aware that the speck is on their doorstep as well. You do not forget super-infections are around.

The only propaganda is the State's indignation that the other nations wish to find out how this happened. How this super-infection from the State got out in the first place. A dead Caldari officer but they had no involvement last month. What about years ago State?

Perhaps your 'around the clock persistent guard' should have been more involved. Then maybe there would be less questions.


These comments brought to you by someone totally neutral with no agenda at all.
Ayallah
Brutor Tribe
Minmatar Republic
#93 - 2017-03-19 17:02:44 UTC
And what agenda is that Aria.

Goddess of the IGS

As strength goes.
Aria Jenneth
Societas Imperialis Sceptri Coronaeque
Khimi Harar
#94 - 2017-03-19 17:12:38 UTC  |  Edited by: Aria Jenneth
Ayallah wrote:
And what agenda is that Aria.


The agenda you don't have? Immediately Reclaiming the Caldari State by the sword, a policy turn you've been loudly arguing for for months if not longer. The "blame the Caldari" drum you've been beating ever since the outbreak began is clearly unrelated, even though if you were successful it could accomplish the twin goals of severing the alliance between State and Empire and maybe keeping the Republic and Federation on the margins sipping drinks and munching snacks while your Empire tests its strength against the Citadel.

That's not something that would perfectly align with your favored policies at all.






(I think I'm getting better at this "sarcasm" thing.)
TomHorn
Horn Brothers Holdings Inc.
#95 - 2017-03-19 17:13:49 UTC  |  Edited by: TomHorn
Confirmation , Zainou and Ishukone will be joining a collaborative effort hosted at the Kyonoke Inquest Center in the coming days. Its against the wishes of some members of the patriot bloc. Might venture out that way, if i get time, take look around.

Anyway, i was in the Heathen's tavern the other day, playing little poker with some of the guys. Doc was there. I was losing as usual , Doc was wining as usual. Bobby Dezero was in , with few of his showbiz crowd. They seem to like to hang with few of the more dangerous elements of the tavern. Guess they get kick out of it. Noticed him leaving later with group of pretty ladies and some known Blood Raiders, no doubt to carry on the party somewhere else. Looks like Bobby, might be trying a little blood drinking, hrm... wonder what the press would do with a story like that. Knowing the youth of New Eden today , probably make his star shine much brighter. Oh well... lets see if i can finish the night by winning my kredits back.
Ayallah
Brutor Tribe
Minmatar Republic
#96 - 2017-03-19 17:27:44 UTC  |  Edited by: Ayallah
Aria Jenneth wrote:
The agenda you don't have? Immediately reclaiming the Caldari State by the sword, a policy turn you've been loudly arguing for for months if not longer. The "blame the Caldari" drum you've been beating ever since the outbreak began is clearly unrelated, even though if you were successful it could accomplish the twin goals of severing the alliance between State and Empire and maybe keeping the Republic and Federation on the margins sipping drinks and munching snacks while your Empire tests its strength against the Citadel.

That's not something that would perfectly align with your favored policies at all.
My favored policy of blaming The State with their mistake of not destroying the speck in the first place? Who else is to blame for this Aria?

And your insistence this has anything to do with Reclamation or the Empire is foolish. The Empire has said nothing at all in this crisis. It has been entirely between the Federation and State which you people are always happy to point out have been your enemies since your foundation.

It is some sick conspiracy theory you have when you think wanting to know how and why a super infection spread across New Eden from Caldari controlled space is motivated by the wish for war. You cannot Reclaim anything by sword or word if everyone is dead Aria. But I suppose it is easier for you to think that I wish to fight in a plague than admit the State has made a series of grave mistakes.

You are no different from your CEP, misdirecting blame and attention to everyone and everything but the explanations of how we arrived here.

Goddess of the IGS

As strength goes.
Saya Ishikari
Ishukone-Raata Technological Research Institute
Ishuk-Raata Enforcement Directive
#97 - 2017-03-19 17:30:04 UTC
Aria Jenneth wrote:
(I think I'm getting better at this "sarcasm" thing.)

It looks more like a statement of fact to me, Aria.

"At the end of it all, we have only what we've left in our wake to be remembered by." -Kyoko Ishikari, YC 95 - YC 117
Aria Jenneth
Societas Imperialis Sceptri Coronaeque
Khimi Harar
#98 - 2017-03-19 17:40:49 UTC
Ayallah wrote:
It is some sick conspiracy theory you have when you think wanting to know how and why a super infection spread across New Eden from Caldari controlled space is motivated by the wish for war. You cannot Reclaim anything by sword or word if everyone is dead Aria.


Ms. Ayallah, you haven't been asking why a super infection spread. You've been telling us.

Ms. Ayallah in a Nutshell wrote:
It's the Caldari! No matter what else happened, it's obviously their fault! I don't care who actually did it; it's the Caldari's fault because the speck was discovered in their territory and got out somehow and also I want to see them conquered and enslaved really badly.


The rest of us would like to know why this happened. There are theories pressing back and forth, a lot of it probably wild speculation.

One thing I don't think is at all likely to be responsible, is you, or people sharing your weird fringe politics. I can't even verify that a single other person in the Empire shares your belief that the State should be immediately invaded (even if it's a statistical near-certainty that somebody, somewhere, agrees), so, yeah, I'm not really seeing a conspiracy there.

Just an opportunist taking advantage of a tragic and very dangerous situation to push a fringe political agenda. Probably you're not the only one doing such a thing, but this pet cause of yours hits one of my nerves just so.

So, no, I'm not neutral here either. But I'm going to wait and see instead of crying blame at the most convenient target available.
Arrendis
TK Corp
#99 - 2017-03-19 18:03:43 UTC  |  Edited by: Arrendis
Makoto Priano wrote:
If it's in opposition, then he's saying he explicitly does not believe that it's an extremist Caldari nationalist, based on personal review. I'd've expected Gaterau to say that the investigation was to rule out that the attack was 'extremist Caldari Nationalist,' rather than to merely ascertain, in that case. What's more, I would not have expected other FIO figureheads to repeat this focus, as the more recent Scope article indicates.


Saying that the aim of the investigation was to 'rule out' Caldari nationalist involvement would have been as bad a sign as saying the aim of the investigation was to prove Caldari nationalist involvement: it pre-supposes a conclusion before the investigation's even begun. The aim of the investigation has to be to determine the truth, ie: to ascertain whether or not there is involvement, not to seek to confirm a conclusion in either direction.

You can't go into an investigation saying 'let's try to rule out X' unless it's already known. If it's already known, then you didn't need an investigation to begin with.

It's worth noting the order of operations here:

FIRST, the investigation is launched: "an investigation [. . .] has been launched to ascertain whether an extremist Caldari Nationalist attack is responsible". That's not pre-supposing an answer either way. It's saying, at the initiation of the investigation, that the aim is not to confirm, OR to rule out, but to get to the truth.

And then, Gaterau doesn't say "I don't believe this" on its own, he said, "My personal belief, after exploring the evidence so far with my colleagues, is that an as of yet unknown quantity is involved"

The aim of the investigation is to get to the truth, without poisoning the well with pre-determined conclusions the FIO wants the results to fit. Gaterau is saying what he's saying based on the evidence, and what he's saying is not looking like he's trying to specifically pin the blame on Caldari nationalists.

Stop trying to make this into something it's not.
Ayallah
Brutor Tribe
Minmatar Republic
#100 - 2017-03-19 18:04:56 UTC  |  Edited by: Ayallah
Aria Jenneth wrote:
Ms. Ayallah, you haven't been asking why a super infection spread. You've been telling us.
Telling you where it came from yes. It carries the name of the place it came from Aria. Kyonoke, Taisy, Lonetrek. One jump from Pandemic Legion's current capital system and our keepstar.
Aria Jenneth wrote:
I can't even verify that a single other person in the Empire shares your belief that the State should be immediately invaded (even if it's a statistical near-certainty that somebody, somewhere, agrees), so, yeah, I'm not really seeing a conspiracy there.

Just an opportunist taking advantage of a tragic and very dangerous situation to push a fringe political agenda. Probably you're not the only one doing such a thing, but this pet cause of yours hits one of my nerves just so.

So, no, I'm not neutral here either. But I'm going to wait and see instead of crying blame at the most convenient target available.
You fears are not my intent.

Ayallah wrote:
Anyone who sees a war between a nation of trillions as akin to picking a fruit is a fool. Seeing weakness and opportunity is not at all like your poor characterization of my intent. Your words assist me though, helping those who fear the day the Empire goes to war trick themselves into believing the threat is not real or the gravity of the task god has given us is poorly understood by those who are chosen.

I do not want the State Reclaimed by the sword Aria. I have no joy at the thought of returning to war. But I know that the State will be the last of the nations to accept the word of god peacefully. And I know too what fate awaits them for their willful blindness to his light.
I have told you before what I want and my attitude to starting war and yet you still try to put words in my mouth. You imagine me frothing with rage on the border but Aria I have far better things to do. It was my mistake to inform people what they should have already known but I never said I wanted an immediate reclaiming. I said the opportunity is there.
Ms. Ayallah in a Nutshell wrote:
It's the Caldari! No matter what else happened, it's obviously their fault! I don't care who actually did it; it's the Caldari's fault because the speck was discovered in their territory and got out somehow and also I want to see them conquered and enslaved really badly.
Your characterization of my words has always been terrible and it only gets worse. If you stop doing it and instead read what I actually say then things for you will make a lot more sense. You think it is my pet cause, no. It is the Sacred duty of all Amarr and it is the Caldari people who have set themselves as enemies of god, refusing to accept his word. Not me.

The Speck originated in the State. It is now all over. That is not a convenient target Aria, that is factual information. The State and FIO squabble and the State insists over and over they are not to blame and it is pathetic. They know that this was started by them, they allowed this to happen when they did not destroy the speck in the beginning.

If you spoke to me about it a single time you would have known that I see more suspicious about Postuovin than anywhere else. That I have asked more questions about the timing and nature of that outbreak and who is more likely to commit these acts to cover tracks. But you can never see past your own fear of attack to read my words about Reclaiming so why would you go past your fear of the speck to see that I am not saying the state intentionally released it when I hold them responsible for its spread over New Eden.

Goddess of the IGS

As strength goes.