Intergalactic Summit

Well, Roden stock prices are important, after all.

No, it starts with a question: "Were Caldari extremists behind this?"

That's not an assumption of guilt, that's a 'We're going to look into this, so let's set up a rational the Senate will take so instead of complaining about the cost'.

Nor, for the record, does 'Caldari' mean a state (or State) actor. A group of nutjobs from Perimeter who think destabilizing everything will lead to wider war and the opportunity for the Caldari Navy to crush the Federation once and for all would qualify. Get the Empires looking inward, get them suspicious of their allies...

I'm not saying it makes sense, but nutjobs are, well, nutjobs.

Teinhyr, by definition, the question 'Were Caldari nationalists behind this?' is more circumscribed than 'Who was behind this?'

Further, by circumscribing the area of focus to the attack on the Federation, instead of recognizing the very serious (and in the State's case far more severe!) attacks on the other signatory states, FIO predisposes itself to looking toward Caldari actors as a source.

Arrendis's case is the most reasonable description of one in which a Caldari non-state, extremist actor might justify attacks against all four nations, by attempting to create an Elder Fleet-like crisis that precipitates rapid movement.

At the same time, we lack anything remotely definitive about the attacks, and so that theory is tenuous if not simply specious.

And I'll be perfectly frank here: when Gallente nationalists are saying that clearly the State was trying to weaponize Kyonoke, and clearly the State is cruel and evil because we were compelled to quarantine 36 million of our own and that demonstrates our willingness to use bioweapons, I'm going to be forthright about obvious bias by an organization like FIO, and the danger of accepting their statements or judgments without critical analysis because it confirms our own biases.

What we know at this time can be summed up as so:

1. Kyonoke originates from the Taisy system, where the Pit has been under cordon for over twenty years.
2. Two or perhaps three breaches of the Pit have occurred. YC101, YC112 suspected, YC119. The latest is suspected but not confirmed to be the related breach.
3. Ohmon Kasaras, Home Guard pilot on leave was found dead at the site, nature of involvement unknown.
4. The Kasaras family, Jaron and Akira Kasaras, are missing, circumstances unknown.

So. Right now, we know a Caldari family was involved in some way, but we don't know if Ohmon was operating under duress, nor do we know the status of Jaron or Akira. We have theories about all of it, but lack information.

I could venture into the rarefied atmosphere with strange speculation about FIO and Gallente agents, considering that we all know the reputation of the Black Eagles, but frankly I think I've had enough of people speaking knowingly about whatever pet conspiracy theory they have.

Simply said, we lack information, and we need to get past flinging feces and to actually trying to work on this in a constructive way.

To be fiar, FIO might be using the investigation as a way to look into all four—and they almost certainly are doing just that. They'd never actually admit that, though, because they wouldn't want to openly confirm 'you know those assets in other empires we deny are us? We have them asking questions.' They're simply not going to ever publicly confirm 'we are currently conducting operations in all four empires' of any sort, even if we all know they and their counterparts do that every day.

So any public statements of current investigations will always refer only to events within the purview of the Federation government.

Arrendis; I suppose that's a fair justification for deliberations with the Senate, to perhaps secure additional funding. At the same time, it certainly doesn't help with multilateral efforts to resolve a crisis. Of course, Blaque and Roden, as well you noted, have no particular desire to see multilateral efforts.

Teinyhr; by decrying nationalists, circular logic, and stated bias?

Well, paint me brown and call me a feces-flinger.

By interpreting everything as negatively as possible. There are now what, two, three people here who have told you that nothing what you said was written in the release, it was how you decided to interpret it. Then you go on to complain about **** flinging, while going out of your way yourself to see things that aren't there.

My statements were a matter of degree, not a matter of falsehood. The issue, essentially, is that FIO's characterizations demonstrate circular logic or confirmation bias, as I've said multiple times. Here. Let me quote the article, just because you seem to have missed some points.





That is not, 'we're exploring all possibilities,' that's 'I personally believe that rogue Caldari nationalists were responsible,' from a senior official of the Black Eagles, nevermind that there have also been attacks against Genolution and the State.

And please note that while FIO's statements are not unequivocal, Gallente nationalists have already been treating the situation as if FIO's biases are proof of fact. Surely I need not mention the baseless claims by Syagrius or Kinnison?

So, yes, I'm going to read FIO statements with considerable suspicion.

I apologize for not implicitly trusting FIO to behave in an unbiased way, when the organization, by its very nature, is going to institutionalize a bias against the State and the Caldari people.

Ms. Teinyhr, are you saying that I should implicitly trust FIO to be unbiased?

No, in fact, it's explicitly not what you're claiming. At no point does Gaterau say he believes it's a specifically Caldari group, only that the investigation was launched with that specific question in mind. Again, if you want to investigate a series of terrorist attacks in an organization that answers to a group like the Federal Senate, you need to frame your investigation in a way that will get the Senators nodding their heads, rather than clutching their wallets.

Is he playing on their fears? Hell yes. Does it mean he believes that? No. Maybe he does, maybe he doesn't, but there is, in fact, no statement of 'I personally believe that rogue Caldari nationalists were responsible'. The only thing he explicitly says is 'We don't know who was responsible'. 'An as of yet unknown quantity' is 'nobody we've ever heard of'. If you think the FIO is unaware of the significant rogue Caldari nationalist groups, Makato, you're nuts.

I don't think you're nuts. I think you're just letting your own fears cloud your reading of his statement. Sometimes, people need a big organizational conspiracy to focus their fears at. It's a lot easier when you can quantify the thing you're worried about (and angry reactions, for the record, are just extroverted fear reactions) as a known quantity, like the FIO or the Federation, rather than someone you can't actually identify. Someone you can't identify could be anyone. They could be among your crew. So let me help you by giving you a different large, quantifiable organization to blame, one that doesn't stir up nationalist ire on either side, and one that probably won't give a crap if you blame them:

Here's how this works:

If you really want to get conspiratorial, you have to look for a new player in the military, economic, or political landscape around the Pit. Ideally, you'd want an organization with a history of violence, that's demonstrated they don't mind killing civilians and non-combatants, with some indication of wanting to be influential in high-security Empire space. Ideally, you'd also want members willing to use less than ethical methods to get what they want, and members or allies with biotech experience.

Now, I'm not saying that Mokk's forays into slaving, the nearby easy access to the Coreli Corporation's ties to Serpentis biotech research, or the deaths of millions on the M-O Keepstar only 1 gate away from the Pit are any indicators of involvement in this by Horde. Especially not Pandemic Horde. Clearly, they'd never treat the possibility of bioweapons lightly. I want that made very clear: I, personally, do not think Horde was behind this. I've got no evidence to say they were. I have no reason to believe they were. I'm not making that accusation. It would be irresponsible to make that accusation.

So I'm not making it. I don't know, I mean, I don't think they're behind this, but I hear that a lot of people are saying that's the kind of nexus of potential you'd want to be looking for in the perpetrators.

So there. Now you can obsess about Horde, and Horde can not care if you obsess about them, rather than more Caldari-Gallente fingerpointing at one another here.

For the record, Horde guys: It could just as easily be disgruntled representatives of an organization recently removed from that part of space, with easy access to biotech experts in nearby Fountain, who have a history of indiscriminate violence, economic warfare, and blatantly overt attacks on civilian shipping in highsec. The only reasons I didn't use us as the original 'OMG IT COULD BE NULLSEC' example are a)if it was us, we all know we'd be telling people it was us, and b)just the idea of a string of bioterror attacks by a group named 'Pandemic' anything is too perfect for the conspiracy theory.

Yes, yes, if you don’t like what someone is saying throw a label on them, then if you don’t discredit or marginalize them at least you can feel good about ignoring them.

I suppose I should throw a word at you… I have one in mind… but I am too much of gentleman to do so.



Yes, we have heard it before Pieter, 'we are the victims, if only you were nicer to us and ignored our duplicity….' You should make that the mantra of the State.



Well, as I said, I wouldn’t either, but if they had, they would have done a better job of it and I doubt we would be having this conversation.

This level of idiocy my friend has the State written all over it.