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Dev blog: PLEX Changes On The Way!

First post First post First post
Gisele Serebriakova
Norman's Meat Market
#281 - 2017-03-17 01:13:33 UTC
Infinite cyno alts might actually increase usage.

Example, at the moment I have zero cyno alts for a reason.

Apply this same argument to various other low time commitment activities like ganking or blah blah blah.

The vault is a good idea. HS is lame for a reason, the rules are stupid and the risk/reward asymmetry is high. Besides this only really effects one shot tornado guys sitting outside jita, and t3 hub haulers. Neither adds anything interesting to the game and should be eliminated.

I don't like the advertisement space in the inventory window either. Anything that breaks the 4th wall in the game space itself shouldn't be there IMO.
AFK Hauler
State War Academy
#282 - 2017-03-17 01:16:45 UTC
Yes, I have used the New Eden Store and purchased currency for items in-game. No, I do not agree with the casual disregard for any account with less than 1000 AUR. From my understanding, this would cause an excess of PLEX on the market system and drop the price. SO? Apparently this was leaked and the PLEX market jumped significantly, almost overnight. A healthy excess should counter the current speculation inflation and nullify the gains by those who possibly leaked it for gain. If there was no leak, then the excess would still serve to balance the market and soften the blow to the price shock from the split.

Now, I cannot agree that 1 PLEX = 30 days game time being "clunky" for players. There is no way that 500 PLEX = 30 days game time - OR - that 1 PLEX = 1.44 hours game time is not clunky. Both "excuses" do not counter the "clunky" statement for easy transition.

Second, why 500? If you plan to swipe AUR from hundreds of accounts (if it's not, then you prove it), why not make it 720 PLEX? If the number is higher, then you can lower the AUR recovery limit by converting more AUR to PLEX. The 720 PLEX is for 1 PLEX = 1hr game time (As stated previously).

But hey, why stop there? Why not make PLEX 7200 for 30 day play? From there you can convert almost on parity with a close 2:1 conversion between these two currencies.

Next - Splitting any asset with a price sensitive market share will inevitably cause inflation creep. 1B for 30 days has already become 1.2B from just speculation... Wait until it only costs 2M for a PLEX, then it will creep to, what, 3M - 4M? When does the price per unit become unjustified? Here we can introduce an EVE-approved solution... Drop your new PLEX in ratting loot. Cringe, right? No.
This will serve two purposes:
1. Balance the price with supply. Those who rat for game time will have a small portion of the item and need to purchase less from the market. CCP will have control over the drop rate based on the market and PLEX use to keep this new currency model balanced. Lower the bounty on rats if you want value (ISK/hr) balance, but add a mechanism for players to control some portion of the market creep.
2. This puts PLEX back into the cargo holds of players increasing the risk / reward balance.

All together, this is a badly thought out solution for a poorly implemented market model for micro transactions. The NES is a disconnected add-on to the game. However, skill extractors cannot be made in-game. Therefore, the New Eden Store will still be needed for items... why not get rid of PLEX and keep AUR? Something tells me you have not thought out the fact that by combining the currencies into one, we can purchase skins from the store with ISK (essentially) without having to buy expensive AUR tokens. Your idea of micro transactions becomes convoluted by the loss of currency separation.

It feels like a big money grab and a push to inflate the price of PLEX in game. Doesn't feel much like a player-centered game anymore to me.
Goonswarm Federation
#283 - 2017-03-17 01:19:16 UTC
ddred wrote:
I would suggest, if possible, that you audit accounts to see if they've ever purchased aurum and only honor/convert aurum for those accounts into plex regardless of how much they have.

Yeah if they have the ability to do this they really should.

But the data to do it right may not be there; tranq and billing are certainly different systems. So there may not be any way to look at tranq and know where the aurum came from or even when it was added.
Queen of Jita
Neutron Blaster Solutions
#284 - 2017-03-17 01:20:32 UTC
Hi CCP devs,

I really like the idea of merging PLEX and Aur to one entity. Very good move.

At this moment it seems to be good idea to remove Aur and add PLEX currency, but consider other option.

What is PLEX? it is Pilot's Licence EXtension. It is a little strange to buy something for a Pilot's Licence. If you want to create a new currency in the game AUR seems to be much better choice. After one year or two, newcoming players will be confused why they buy gametime for Pilot's Licences Shocked

In my opinion much better would be:

AUR - "gold currency" that appears in the wallet (not inventory), with an option to redeem as an item "AUR token", which will appear in the hangar. It will be possible to back to the wallet, even remotely. It will be also possible to be traded, given, contracted, sold ect.

PLEX - will remain the synonym of gametime. It will be possible to buy gametime or just extend Plex. Buying PLEX would have two options of payment : ISK at the current price or at the fixed price in AUR (3500).

If you want to avoid confusion with old Aur, and new Aur described above - give the other name to the new currency.
Joan Andedare
Roving Guns Inc.
Pandemic Legion
#285 - 2017-03-17 01:23:51 UTC
I agree with splitting Plex into smaller units, the (potential) option to only subscribe an account for a few hours or days as needed would be amazing. getting rid of aurum also makes things easier when buying skins and clothes.

However, the vault idea seems a bit misplaced. As plex no longer need to be transported, there is no need to consider them as an item, instead they should be moved to the wallet, as it now only serves as currency.
Another thing I do not like is the fact that CCP will be removing Aurum from users who paid for it. While (probably) covered by the EULA this behavior doesn't seem likely to increase trust in CCP and in their virtual currencies. I hope CCP will reconsider this and look for another solution to limit the impact on the Plex marktet (asuming the impact will be big enough to really warrant any action on their part.).
Don Peyote
Broski North
#286 - 2017-03-17 01:26:00 UTC
Messenger Of Truth wrote:
SIEGE RED wrote:
Also, I'd wager that most Aurum under the 1k units falls firmly into the gift category still - particularly with old / inactive accounts.

I've converted a Plex to Aurum. I've got Aurum left over because of their typical annoying microtransaction prices where none of the prices are divisors of the quantities you can buy currency in.

This Aurum was not a free gift, and confiscating it is unacceptable.

Capqu wrote:
convert everything, saying you wont convert under 1k for some bullshit reason is straight up pathetic especially when you STILL OFFER 900 points for 4.99€ in your store. you are scamming people plain and simple

the amount being low per individual is not relevant.

you [CCP] are taking/have taken money for an in-game currency
now you are deciding to defunct that currency and not refund players. there is no justification for this

i don't know much about law and i wont pretend to, but to me this is grounds for a class action. every single eve online account with a small amount of currency is being stolen from.

being conservative and saying 30k players with 150 average AUR being stolen, you are stealing 0.83c from each player - which results in over 24,000€ stolen.
and that is with VERY conservative numbers on my part

i don't know what world you live in where you think you can get away with scamming that kind of money in broad daylight and brush it under the rug as a game-play decision.

this isn't an in game currency you invented. this is money you took from people in return for a currency to use your store

Agreed on all counts, there's no justification whatsoever for arbitrarily invalidating the purchases of thousands of paying customers. There's no technical limitation reason they can't just convert all aurum regardless of the amount. In fact I suspect it'd be easier to implement.

The product has already been sold, they aren't losing out on custom. It's a cynical cashgrab - if a person with 790 aurum now misses on the conversion for whatever reason but in the future wants to buy a SKIN, I guess it's tough **** and they'll have to buy the full balance again! Good practice if you're hustling somebody once, but not something to do if you want repeat custom.

Maybe it's my fault, but I expect CCP to at least have the decency to at least give people the product they pay for. It's especially egregious when, as the two posts I've quoted point out, they have employed and continue to employ the classic microtransaction peddler shtick of selling the good in amounts incompatible with the use of it, necessitating further purchases or 'wasted money' - a 'fallacy' that stops being fallacious when that 'spare change' is exempted from this upcoming conversion because of an arbitrary cutoff imposed.

This sort of business practice makes Wargaming look scrupulous.
Sage Mo
State War Academy
Caldari State
#287 - 2017-03-17 01:43:31 UTC
Gotta say, as a new player I'm incredibly disappointed that there's going to be advertisements in my inventory and you're diminishing the value of the player's currency if they have under 1000 aurum.
Sgt Ocker
What Corp is it
#288 - 2017-03-17 01:59:45 UTC

If you really have to add shameless unwanted advertising to the game - There is a tab in the character sheet that says "Pilot License", as it is now it is completely useless unless you're dual training.
Why not give it a make over so you can see when your account expires (regardless of how you pay) and put your advertising vault there.
This would be a nice player enhancement removing the need to check emails or log in to "account management" just to see how long until your account expires.
Putting the plex vault in there you can spend, trade or renew your sub - All in one place.
You could also have a link to account management for those who pay $ for their subs or just want to buy more plex.

I find those who shamelessly advertise their products right in your face are far less likely to get any money out of me.
Subtle unobtrusive advertising over something you are forced to look at every time you enter the game for the whole time you are in the game.

PS; Thank you for making our Aurum Xmas gift worthless.

NB; I haven't played a game from EA for quite a while due to their - Pay for the game then get inundated with constant advertising to buy this, that and everything else. Please don't let Eve go down that line - It really is a turnoff.

My opinions are mine.

  If you don't like them or disagree with me that's OK.- - - - - - Just don't bother Hating - I don't care

It really is getting harder and harder to justify $23 a month for each sub.

Professor JinMine
Project Fruit House
#289 - 2017-03-17 02:02:40 UTC  |  Edited by: Professor JinMine
Q: What will happen to existing market orders for PLEX when the feature launches?
A: We will cancel all orders and repay fees, as usual when we make a major type conversion.

I'm extremely worried about this.
When you say "repay fees", do you mean taking ISK out of Citadel owner's wallet and giving back to the ppl who have paid broker fees?
Or do you mean to say you will duplicate and inject ISK amount corresponding to the broker fee paid in citadels?

and how will you calculate the fees to be repaid?
1) Dig through the records for each order and pay back the actual fees accumulated => again, where would the ISK come from?
2) Calculate the fee at the time of change based on the applicable broker fee rate => so I can jack up my citadel's broker fee right before the downtime and everyone who placed PLEX order there receives free ISK? And again, where would the ISK come from?
3) Blanket NPC station rate repayment => again, free ISK for the people who placed PLEX orders with lower broker fee rates
Ebanezer Scrooge
Imperial Academy
Amarr Empire
#290 - 2017-03-17 02:08:37 UTC
just HUM BUG....should be divisible by 30.
If PLEX going to be broken into units then game time should be broken down into units also.
Sylvia Lafayette
Taggart Transdimensional
Virtue of Selfishness
#291 - 2017-03-17 02:14:23 UTC
I know the dev blog says smaller units of of plex being spent for less than 30 days is not being considered but it is an option I would very likely use. Being able to spend 25/50 plex for 36/72 hours of game time would let me enjoy a casual weekend of play and still worry about real life. I've hit the point in eve where I have enough sp in enough skills but don't play enough to justify paying for a full 30 days just to play every other weekend of a month that I'm available. Even if CCP only wanted to test the waters with a 100 plex for 6 day option I might consider using it.
Hra Neuvosto
Party Cat Enterprises
#292 - 2017-03-17 02:15:29 UTC  |  Edited by: Hra Neuvosto
At least put those ads out of sight in the character sheet Pilot License tab. Not a good way to go at this. I also agree 100% with what Capqu said.

And, while I don't roleplay, I've always enjoyed how most things in eve feel like they belong, like they could exist in this universe. All of this "buy game time" and "resculpt your character" are an eyesore.
William Pierce
Horde Vanguard.
Pandemic Horde
#293 - 2017-03-17 02:18:50 UTC
An easily solution would be to let people continue to use the leftover amounts below 1000 AUR in the store after the change, and let them combine these amounts with PLEX amounts to make purchases. That would solve this whole issue.
William Pierce
Horde Vanguard.
Pandemic Horde
#294 - 2017-03-17 02:20:12 UTC
Sylvia Lafayette wrote:
I know the dev blog says smaller units of of plex being spent for less than 30 days is not being considered but it is an option I would very likely use. Being able to spend 25/50 plex for 36/72 hours of game time would let me enjoy a casual weekend of play and still worry about real life. I've hit the point in eve where I have enough sp in enough skills but don't play enough to justify paying for a full 30 days just to play every other weekend of a month that I'm available. Even if CCP only wanted to test the waters with a 100 plex for 6 day option I might consider using it.

Some people like you might pay more than you do currently (if you're not playing at all), but I have a hunch that more people would end up paying less if they had the option to only subscribe on the weekends to the like.
Ines Tegator
Serious Business Inc. Ltd. LLC. etc.
#295 - 2017-03-17 02:24:51 UTC  |  Edited by: Ines Tegator
So this level of granularity means everyone will be able to literally only pay for the time they spend logged in.

I thought CCP liked making money?
Jeven HouseBenyo
Vanity Thy Name Is
#296 - 2017-03-17 02:25:05 UTC
Zerisi Madeveda wrote:
Might get some flak for this, but to be honest I don't really see this as a good thing.

I know, I'm an Alpha, and no one really wants to hear anything that we have to say, but the thing is this: this may be very bad for the game's economy as a whole.

If Aurum goes away, and these micro-plex units take its place, then two things will most likely go on:

1: micro-plex pays for more than just subscription time. This makes it inherently more versatile, and thus will most likely be more expensive than people think.

2: It will require many units of micro-plex to pay for a month of Omega time. If CCP sells packs of these things for less than 500 units per pack, it will require multiple pack purchases in order to have enough for one month of game time. This will also drive the price up as it will require more packages purchased to satisfy demand.

If the price of plexing one's account goes up beyond what people are willing to pay in ISK, then Alphas and Omegas who buy plex to extend their Omega time, who do "plexing", may simply stop playing if they are either unwilling or unable to buy subscription time with real life money.

If CCP plans on continuing the game for years into the future, they would need to focus on player retention, and making a method of paying for your account, plexing, non-viable is not going to help with that.

Also, and this is just my personal thoughts on the matter, I had been planning to try to do plexing myself as a means of going Omega since I don't have the disposable income to pay the monthly cost of a subscription with real life cash. This new bit of news is rather discouraging to me, as an Alpha clone player, and makes me wonder if I'll ever be able to play as an Omega for a prolonged period of time at this rate. I know I might be mocked for saying this, but that's the case; this is discouraging news to me, and I imagine it might be for other Alphas and even some Omegas who do plexing to pay for their own Omega time.

^^^ This

Disheartening our new Alphas is a bad route to take, CCP. They've been invited to carry the budget weight upset older Omega customers have dumped after fighting one too many changes beyond their tolerance. There's no need to drive off the new blood as well, while there's many reasons we'd want them to stay flying with us.

>Jeven's Ever Suffering Keyboardist

Minny boat flyer, unofficial squeaky wheel.

'Game Ethics and Morality Monitor' I remember promises.

Snark at 11-24/7/365.25. Overshare? Yup.

Yes it's my fault. And if you don't staap it I'll do it again. ;-P

No you can't has my stuffs OR my SPs.

Amarisen Gream
Cauldron of Ecstasy
#297 - 2017-03-17 02:44:48 UTC
Can't say I am fully behind this change 100%

I am in mind that CCPs fear of aurum to plex exchange under 1000 aurum to be to much.
Ether exchange it to game time or ISK.

And splitting up a PLEX into smaller parts where each one equals an hour of game time seems much better.

Please, CCP give this some more thought.

Also, is there maybe a way you could pool the aurum from all accounts linked to the same email. This would merge all the small amounts for the players, and this could be done before the conversion of aurum to PLEX so players could maybe spend it before they lose it. This merged pool would would show up in the account with the highest SP character.

Would also like to see the PLEX vault linked to accounts sharing emails as well.

"The Lord loosed upon them his fierce anger All of his fury and rage. He dispatched against them a band of Avenging Angels" - The Scriptures, Book II, Apocalypse 10:1

#NPCLivesMatter #Freetheboobs

Amelia Sturges
Taco Tuesdays
#298 - 2017-03-17 02:49:47 UTC

[–]TekkiME! Pandemic Legion 71 points an hour ago
Simple solution: Any amount below 1000 AUR gets converted into game time +% to make player happy.
Rikki Bigg
The Graduates
The Initiative.
#299 - 2017-03-17 03:46:43 UTC
What about the Aurum tokens, what will happen to the 100, 500, and 1000 Aurum items that are still in game?
Queen of Jita
Neutron Blaster Solutions
#300 - 2017-03-17 03:47:32 UTC  |  Edited by: Queen of Jita
Joan Andedare wrote:
I agree with splitting Plex into smaller units, the (potential) option to only subscribe an account for a few hours or days as needed would be amazing.

This will never happen. If you were the CCP owner, would you resign from steady subscribtion income for "pay for 1 hour of game"? Lol
CCP is not running their business to work for free. They deserve to get paid for their job.

However - the AUR from paid sources (plex, codes) should be compensated, not taken away.