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Alphas and F2P Have Failed

Author
Gimme Sake
State War Academy
Caldari State
#661 - 2017-04-07 12:39:50 UTC
Martin Solo wrote:
Gimme Sake wrote:



You don't need to be in a player owned corp to do solo pvp. If you feel isolated change the corp, there are better corps, new player friendly, out there. Eve university, karma fleet, pandemic horde are the first to come to my mind.

The trial system was prior to alpha clone status and had some similar limitations regarding usable ships and skills.


Damnit, im pretty sure my awsome grammer, created some confusion here..

Im not looking for solo pvp. In wow i was a healer (logi in eve) Im looking to do the same in eve if possible..

I want to establish my own economy, and not just be given "help".. I want to understand eve, and be a pillar in the corp im in..

I do really value your responce, since its dawning on me, that with the "needs" i got atm, im in a totally wrong corp.. Dont get me wrong, the corp is great and all, just not focused on what i am trying to find..

Thank you for your advice o7




No confusion at all. If their response to your needs is "go solo!", especially to a character enthusiastic about doing logi, then you're definitely in a wrong corp.

"Never not blob!" ~ Plato

Kathern Aurilen
#662 - 2017-04-07 12:51:29 UTC
Trasch Taranogas wrote:
What is up with CODE?

Is it a charade or have they truly drank too much Kool-Aid?

They seem almost as convinced as those Apple guys.

Maybe they should drink a lil more, ...

No cuts, no butts, no coconuts!

Forum alt, unskilled in the ways of pewpew!

Yebo Lakatosh
Brutor Tribe
Minmatar Republic
#663 - 2017-04-07 12:58:46 UTC
Did we have too many Code-free pages already in a Code-unrelated thread? :]

Well, besides Mr Rhoska who's a walking advertisement.

And the OP.


Ahh well, never mind. Let's just all comply.

Elite F1 pilot since YC119, incarnate of honor, integrity and tidi.

Teckos Pech
Hogyoku
Goonswarm Federation
#664 - 2017-04-07 18:05:25 UTC
Gimme Sake wrote:


The only counter for supers are supers. Nothing atainable for a new bro.


So what? I have never owned a super cap, never been in one, and frankly don't want too. They can become like a coffin, and every time you log in there is a ginormous target on you. Just about everyone would love to bag you super cap for their killboard.

And I have been in LS and NS quite a bit and can count on my fingers the number of times super capitals have dropped on us. It does happen, but this notion that it is rampant is nonsense. And that they are dropped specifically on new players is just laughable. This is like worrying about being struck by lightning.

And new players looking to get into supers? Really? Why not learn to fly other ships first before setting your sights on something like that.

"The curious task of economics is to demonstrate to men how little they really know about what they imagine they can design."--Friedrich August von Hayek

8 Golden Rules for EVE Online

Teckos Pech
Hogyoku
Goonswarm Federation
#665 - 2017-04-07 18:09:40 UTC
Zoubidah Al-Kouffarde wrote:
Gimme Sake wrote:


The only counter for supers are supers. Nothing attainable for a new bro.


What do you mean? any new player can buy subscriptions for multiple accounts, a few dozen PLEX, buy advanced characters for those accounts, and then have supers to counter supers.

There's nothing preventing a newbro from defending himself from those tactics.

Oh, and before anyone shouts "OMG IT'S P2W", a few hours of grind can provide enough PLEX to fund all that ^^


You kinds stink at the use of sarcasm….

Or you could just make friends in game and kill that super with your buddies. It has been known to happen, somebody drops supers, then the supers are tackled, the bat phoning starts and then you have some dead supers. To keep them tackled you’ll need things like dictors, which a relatively new player can skill into. And DPS, which again a relatively new player can skill into.

"The curious task of economics is to demonstrate to men how little they really know about what they imagine they can design."--Friedrich August von Hayek

8 Golden Rules for EVE Online

Zoubidah Al-Kouffarde
Imperial Shipment
Amarr Empire
#666 - 2017-04-07 18:26:44 UTC
"Make friends" / "trust no one"

This game is not P2W because everyone can grind a few hours to buy characters, PLEXes, and fund accounts

"You would not be the first "ganker aligned" player to be found to having some issues. Here's a dark secret: there are some in AG who, because of battling gankers, have managed to get to know a few of them, found they had issues, and helped them" HW

Hello Meow Kitty
Ministry of War
Amarr Empire
#667 - 2017-04-07 18:38:38 UTC
I'll come back and tackle ships for you if I can fly a Titan.
Yebo Lakatosh
Brutor Tribe
Minmatar Republic
#668 - 2017-04-07 18:55:19 UTC
Zoubidah Al-Kouffarde wrote:
"Make friends" / "trust no one"
I'm failing to see why would these two approaches to be mutually exclusive - even when you only face just one player.

Zoubidah Al-Kouffarde wrote:
This game is not P2W because everyone can grind a few hours to buy characters, PLEXes, and fund accounts
I think you -vastly- overestimate new players. Or even people who play for a few years suboptimally (from an ISK grinding perspective). Or you just have a -very- different concept of what a 'few' hours is than most people I met.

Not that I'd call EvE P2W. Mainly for people here set their own goals. And unless someone's only goal is to fly a super, he won't 'win' even if he starts by buying a super pilot with a blingy ship. My guess is that he'd lose a lot more while learning basic stuff than who uses a Rifter for that.

Elite F1 pilot since YC119, incarnate of honor, integrity and tidi.

Teckos Pech
Hogyoku
Goonswarm Federation
#669 - 2017-04-07 19:13:15 UTC
Yebo Lakatosh wrote:
Zoubidah Al-Kouffarde wrote:
"Make friends" / "trust no one"
I'm failing to see why would these two approaches to be mutually exclusive - even when you only face just one player.

Zoubidah Al-Kouffarde wrote:
This game is not P2W because everyone can grind a few hours to buy characters, PLEXes, and fund accounts
I think you -vastly- overestimate new players. Or even people who play for a few years suboptimally (from an ISK grinding perspective). Or you just have a -very- different concept of what a 'few' hours is than most people I met.

Not that I'd call EvE P2W. Mainly for people here set their own goals. And unless someone's only goal is to fly a super, he won't 'win' even if he starts by buying a super pilot with a blingy ship. My guess is that he'd lose a lot more while learning basic stuff than who uses a Rifter for that.


Naw, he is just butthurt the game is not how he'd like it. A nice warm comfy safe space where he isn't triggered.

"The curious task of economics is to demonstrate to men how little they really know about what they imagine they can design."--Friedrich August von Hayek

8 Golden Rules for EVE Online

Yebo Lakatosh
Brutor Tribe
Minmatar Republic
#670 - 2017-04-07 19:22:50 UTC  |  Edited by: Yebo Lakatosh
Ahh, I forgot that my High-Grade Irony Detection implant set was left in another head of mine. P

Elite F1 pilot since YC119, incarnate of honor, integrity and tidi.

Scialt
Universal Sanitation Corporation
#671 - 2017-04-07 19:47:17 UTC
Yebo Lakatosh wrote:
Zoubidah Al-Kouffarde wrote:
"Make friends" / "trust no one"
I'm failing to see why would these two approaches to be mutually exclusive - even when you only face just one player.

Zoubidah Al-Kouffarde wrote:
This game is not P2W because everyone can grind a few hours to buy characters, PLEXes, and fund accounts
I think you -vastly- overestimate new players. Or even people who play for a few years suboptimally (from an ISK grinding perspective). Or you just have a -very- different concept of what a 'few' hours is than most people I met.

Not that I'd call EvE P2W. Mainly for people here set their own goals. And unless someone's only goal is to fly a super, he won't 'win' even if he starts by buying a super pilot with a blingy ship. My guess is that he'd lose a lot more while learning basic stuff than who uses a Rifter for that.


As a challenge... people who think it just takes a few hours to plex should go start a new toon on one of their accounts and without giving any isk from their other accounts see how long it takes to get their wallet to 1.2 billion isk. And keep in your mind that you already KNOW eve... it's not a new game for you. Just a new toon.
Marika Sunji
Perkone
Caldari State
#672 - 2017-04-07 20:31:41 UTC
Scialt wrote:

As a challenge... people who think it just takes a few hours to plex should go start a new toon on one of their accounts and without giving any isk from their other accounts see how long it takes to get their wallet to 1.2 billion isk. And keep in your mind that you already KNOW eve... it's not a new game for you. Just a new toon.


You can make 100m/h grinding incursions in peasant-fit hyperion that takes all of 3 weeks to skill into from clear toon. You can make the required 300m capital for the BS by doing exploration for about 10h or so, then you can plex your account with 10 hours of playtime.
Milla Goodpussy
Garoun Investment Bank
#673 - 2017-04-07 22:57:09 UTC
Marika Sunji wrote:
Scialt wrote:

As a challenge... people who think it just takes a few hours to plex should go start a new toon on one of their accounts and without giving any isk from their other accounts see how long it takes to get their wallet to 1.2 billion isk. And keep in your mind that you already KNOW eve... it's not a new game for you. Just a new toon.


You can make 100m/h grinding incursions in peasant-fit hyperion that takes all of 3 weeks to skill into from clear toon. You can make the required 300m capital for the BS by doing exploration for about 10h or so, then you can plex your account with 10 hours of playtime.



ROFL... stop your damn lying
Marika Sunji
Perkone
Caldari State
#674 - 2017-04-08 00:14:19 UTC
Milla Goodpussy wrote:
Marika Sunji wrote:
Scialt wrote:

As a challenge... people who think it just takes a few hours to plex should go start a new toon on one of their accounts and without giving any isk from their other accounts see how long it takes to get their wallet to 1.2 billion isk. And keep in your mind that you already KNOW eve... it's not a new game for you. Just a new toon.


You can make 100m/h grinding incursions in peasant-fit hyperion that takes all of 3 weeks to skill into from clear toon. You can make the required 300m capital for the BS by doing exploration for about 10h or so, then you can plex your account with 10 hours of playtime.



ROFL... stop your damn lying


But... but I literally did what I said you can do - started as explorer, skilled into BS, bought a cheap nightmare (pew pew ftw) and made a plex in 10 hours or so (could have been 11, not totally certain).
Vokan Narkar
New Eden Traders Aliance
#675 - 2017-04-08 00:59:39 UTC  |  Edited by: Vokan Narkar
Zoubidah Al-Kouffarde wrote:
Gimme Sake wrote:


The only counter for supers are supers. Nothing attainable for a new bro.


What do you mean? any new player can buy subscriptions for multiple accounts, a few dozen PLEX, buy advanced characters for those accounts, and then have supers to counter supers.

There's nothing preventing a newbro from defending himself from those tactics.

Oh, and before anyone shouts "OMG IT'S P2W", a few hours of grind can provide enough PLEX to fund all that ^^

we got a newbro in our corp that did this

first he lacked the experiences

second when we dropped carrier on their carrier they counter-dropped 4 more carriers Lol

there is really not much you can do as new player/corp in lowsec atm, thats why we moved into null where we have to pay xxx bils to be allowed to be there... doesn't like that fact either but what can we do as new corp, there is no way we can take a piece of a null for ourselves

PS. not this corp Im using alt for forum posting obviously
Vokan Narkar
New Eden Traders Aliance
#676 - 2017-04-08 01:06:50 UTC  |  Edited by: Vokan Narkar
Marika Sunji wrote:
Milla Goodpussy wrote:
Marika Sunji wrote:
Scialt wrote:

As a challenge... people who think it just takes a few hours to plex should go start a new toon on one of their accounts and without giving any isk from their other accounts see how long it takes to get their wallet to 1.2 billion isk. And keep in your mind that you already KNOW eve... it's not a new game for you. Just a new toon.


You can make 100m/h grinding incursions in peasant-fit hyperion that takes all of 3 weeks to skill into from clear toon. You can make the required 300m capital for the BS by doing exploration for about 10h or so, then you can plex your account with 10 hours of playtime.



ROFL... stop your damn lying


But... but I literally did what I said you can do - started as explorer, skilled into BS, bought a cheap nightmare (pew pew ftw) and made a plex in 10 hours or so (could have been 11, not totally certain).

300 mil by exploration in 10 hours? wh only which needs better skills to successfully hack all caches which needs quite a lot of time skilling again and thats only assuming you will not be ambushed and you will have luck finding player-less wh with lot of relic sites which happens rarely... in lowsec I was able to make 150mil in around that time and that was empty region with lot of sites, certainly doable to grind enough money for incursion BS by exploration but it is not as easy and fast as you make it to be

and all of this assume you will sub first, as you cant fly anything useable in incursions on alpha (and also making relic/data in whs is really pointless on alpha with 3points in the hacking/archeology only) for which I am not sure was meant it by OP
Marika Sunji
Perkone
Caldari State
#677 - 2017-04-08 01:34:49 UTC
Vokan Narkar wrote:
Marika Sunji wrote:
Milla Goodpussy wrote:
Marika Sunji wrote:
Scialt wrote:

As a challenge... people who think it just takes a few hours to plex should go start a new toon on one of their accounts and without giving any isk from their other accounts see how long it takes to get their wallet to 1.2 billion isk. And keep in your mind that you already KNOW eve... it's not a new game for you. Just a new toon.


You can make 100m/h grinding incursions in peasant-fit hyperion that takes all of 3 weeks to skill into from clear toon. You can make the required 300m capital for the BS by doing exploration for about 10h or so, then you can plex your account with 10 hours of playtime.



ROFL... stop your damn lying


But... but I literally did what I said you can do - started as explorer, skilled into BS, bought a cheap nightmare (pew pew ftw) and made a plex in 10 hours or so (could have been 11, not totally certain).

300 mil by exploration in 10 hours? wh only which needs better skills to successfully hack all caches which needs quite a lot of time skilling again and thats only assuming you will not be ambushed and you will have luck finding player-less wh with lot of relic sites which happens rarely... in lowsec I was able to make 150mil in around that time and that was empty region with lot of sites, certainly doable to grind enough money for incursion BS by exploration but it is not as easy and fast as you make it to be

and all of this assume you will sub first, as you cant fly anything useable in incursions on alpha (and also making relic/data in whs is really pointless on alpha with 3points in the hacking/archeology only) for which I am not sure was meant it by OP


Lol what? I can hack every can I encounter with Archaeology III just fine. Explorer ganks aren't that common as long as you dont explore 1 jump from Jita. You skip right over data sites (they are worthless), and focus on relics. A relic site on average (when I ran them) provided around 20m ISK. And yes, you would have to sub, but well, nothing ventured and so on. There are alpha incursion communities, but you'd have to work significantly harder to earn your plex without omega.
Scialt
Universal Sanitation Corporation
#678 - 2017-04-10 13:54:25 UTC
Marika Sunji wrote:
Vokan Narkar wrote:
Marika Sunji wrote:
Milla Goodpussy wrote:
Marika Sunji wrote:


You can make 100m/h grinding incursions in peasant-fit hyperion that takes all of 3 weeks to skill into from clear toon. You can make the required 300m capital for the BS by doing exploration for about 10h or so, then you can plex your account with 10 hours of playtime.



ROFL... stop your damn lying


But... but I literally did what I said you can do - started as explorer, skilled into BS, bought a cheap nightmare (pew pew ftw) and made a plex in 10 hours or so (could have been 11, not totally certain).

300 mil by exploration in 10 hours? wh only which needs better skills to successfully hack all caches which needs quite a lot of time skilling again and thats only assuming you will not be ambushed and you will have luck finding player-less wh with lot of relic sites which happens rarely... in lowsec I was able to make 150mil in around that time and that was empty region with lot of sites, certainly doable to grind enough money for incursion BS by exploration but it is not as easy and fast as you make it to be

and all of this assume you will sub first, as you cant fly anything useable in incursions on alpha (and also making relic/data in whs is really pointless on alpha with 3points in the hacking/archeology only) for which I am not sure was meant it by OP


Lol what? I can hack every can I encounter with Archaeology III just fine. Explorer ganks aren't that common as long as you dont explore 1 jump from Jita. You skip right over data sites (they are worthless), and focus on relics. A relic site on average (when I ran them) provided around 20m ISK. And yes, you would have to sub, but well, nothing ventured and so on. There are alpha incursion communities, but you'd have to work significantly harder to earn your plex without omega.


So... you seriously (without getting isk from another account)... got isk for skillbooks... then got 350 million for a nightmare plus whatever you needed for whatever fit you use... then got in an incursion group and earned a further 1.2 billion isk... in 11 hours of game time?

Look... I can create an account and plex it pretty easily as well... just by sending enough isk for 3 skill injectors and skillbooks/setup costs for PI. But I can do that immediately because I have another account with enough isk to jump start it. I could probably do it through station trading as well given a big enough stake from my main.

But if I just started a new account with no isk transfer from my existing accounts.... where you leave the NPE with a million isk or less (can't remember) and after you complete the career agents (which takes a while) you only have about 10 million isk and an assortment of ships... that would take some time. If I paid for a month I could PROBABLY get there if I played 4 hours a day... but to suggest that a new player could get there with just a "few hours of grinding" is simply misleading. I think for most players it takes between 6 months and a year before they figure stuff out enough to start bringing in large enough quantities of isk to easily plex each month without a horrid grind.
Zarek Kree
Lunatic Legion Holdings
#679 - 2017-04-10 14:55:05 UTC
Scialt wrote:
So... you seriously (without getting isk from another account)... got isk for skillbooks... then got 350 million for a nightmare plus whatever you needed for whatever fit you use... then got in an incursion group and earned a further 1.2 billion isk... in 11 hours of game time?

Look... I can create an account and plex it pretty easily as well... just by sending enough isk for 3 skill injectors and skillbooks/setup costs for PI. But I can do that immediately because I have another account with enough isk to jump start it. I could probably do it through station trading as well given a big enough stake from my main.

But if I just started a new account with no isk transfer from my existing accounts.... where you leave the NPE with a million isk or less (can't remember) and after you complete the career agents (which takes a while) you only have about 10 million isk and an assortment of ships... that would take some time. If I paid for a month I could PROBABLY get there if I played 4 hours a day... but to suggest that a new player could get there with just a "few hours of grinding" is simply misleading. I think for most players it takes between 6 months and a year before they figure stuff out enough to start bringing in large enough quantities of isk to easily plex each month without a horrid grind.


Concur. I've been fairly dedicated since starting EVE about a year ago, but I only began consistently plexing my account a few months ago. Knowledge and experience is at least as important as the SP in that regard. If I was to start over tomorrow, I could probably get there in a few months - but only because I have some idea about what I'm doing now. Learning the game and figuring out what you enjoy doing takes far more time than gaining the necessary skills.
Marika Sunji
Perkone
Caldari State
#680 - 2017-04-10 15:04:13 UTC
Scialt wrote:

So... you seriously (without getting isk from another account)... got isk for skillbooks... then got 350 million for a nightmare plus whatever you needed for whatever fit you use... then got in an incursion group and earned a further 1.2 billion isk... in 11 hours of game time?


No, you misunderstood or perhaps I wasn't clear enough. I farmed the ~1b (price from last year) for plex in 10h upon joining the incursion community. It took me about a month to find my feet in-game and gather enough isk via exploration to get myself a decently fit nightmare, but I didn't sign up for incursions until much later (which I regret, solo wormhole ratting with low sp pays ****). You can do it in significantly shorter time though. The minimal train for an entry-level incursion ship is about 2-3 weeks from bare alpha start. It's more than enough time to earn 400m grinding relic sites in wormholes.