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Alphas and F2P Have Failed

Author
Jonah Gravenstein
Machiavellian Space Bastards
#241 - 2017-03-13 17:09:00 UTC
Infinity Ziona wrote:
Jenn aSide wrote:
It's 1600 EVE time, isn't it time for your daily rage quit and promise (ie lie about) deleting your toons again?

Tommorow maybe :)
3rd time lucky... I won't be holding my breath.

Quote:

If subscribers don't want to PvP why would you force them to or have them quit.
If subscribers don't want to PvP, why are they playing a game that is first and foremost a PvP game?

Lets not forget that PvP in Eve isn't limited to shooting each other in the face.

Quote:
Like I said there are 7000 systems designed for PvP. 8000 if you declare war.
Wrong, every system in Eve is designed for PvP, CCP have specifically created mechanics such as crimewatch to facilitate PvP being possible in every single one of the player accessible systems.

Quote:
The only way to increase sub's is to target non pvprs . its a no brainer which doesn't bode well for the nay sayers.
Yeah great idea, CCP should dumb the game down to the extent where hisec is essentially a PvE realm and the game becomes just another generic MMO set in space, and is doomed to fail like all the other spaceship games that were going to kill Eve.

Roll

In the beginning there was nothing, which exploded.

New Player FAQ

Feyd's Survival Pack

Frostys Virpio
Caldari Provisions
Caldari State
#242 - 2017-03-13 17:19:47 UTC
Jenn aSide wrote:
mkint wrote:
Safety is a non-issue. Getting people engaged is the issue, that's where the game has been failing.


This is why EVE did better when it was "here is a space ship, **** you". How some of these people can't understand that is beyond me.

The 'safety' people honestly think more safety is the answer. They are making the same kind of mistake modern day parents make, ie "if i keep my child safe enough, they will be ok". What they end up with is a bunch of people who can't function in the adult world and who need their participation trophies to feel special.

I don't think people like that are capable of changing their ways though, when your whole self image is built around "hey, look at what a good person I am, I oppose space tyranny in a video game", there's just no helping it Twisted


I want your opinion on something following this. Do you think there is opportunity to raise subs in the "here is a ship now **** you" player market at this point? Since no matter how we slice it, EVE need to renew it's subscriber base at least as fast as it lose subs to stay as active as it is now.
Jenn aSide
Dreddit
Test Alliance Please Ignore
#243 - 2017-03-13 17:28:35 UTC
Frostys Virpio wrote:
Jenn aSide wrote:
mkint wrote:
Safety is a non-issue. Getting people engaged is the issue, that's where the game has been failing.


This is why EVE did better when it was "here is a space ship, **** you". How some of these people can't understand that is beyond me.

The 'safety' people honestly think more safety is the answer. They are making the same kind of mistake modern day parents make, ie "if i keep my child safe enough, they will be ok". What they end up with is a bunch of people who can't function in the adult world and who need their participation trophies to feel special.

I don't think people like that are capable of changing their ways though, when your whole self image is built around "hey, look at what a good person I am, I oppose space tyranny in a video game", there's just no helping it Twisted


I want your opinion on something following this. Do you think there is opportunity to raise subs in the "here is a ship now **** you" player market at this point? Since no matter how we slice it, EVE need to renew it's subscriber base at least as fast as it lose subs to stay as active as it is now.


I think there are un-tapped people who like games that treat them like adults, yes. Even in this day and age, there are people who like a challenge.

No I can't say for certain that CCP backing off some of the hand holding will make a difference at this point, but who knows. CCPs big mistake imo was trying to expand EVE out of it's niche rather than just trying to make it the best niche game it could be and making some separate mainstream offerings for people who want that.

Seems like business wise they are on the right track with Phoenix and maybe Nova and the other things they are selling.
Soel Reit
The Scope
Gallente Federation
#244 - 2017-03-13 17:43:46 UTC
Jenn aSide wrote:


Seems like business wise they are on the right track with Phoenix and maybe Nova and the other things they are selling.


who give a damn Fu.ck about Nova and Phoenix
LUL

all we care is EvE!
legit
Frostys Virpio
Caldari Provisions
Caldari State
#245 - 2017-03-13 18:06:45 UTC
Soel Reit wrote:
Jenn aSide wrote:


Seems like business wise they are on the right track with Phoenix and maybe Nova and the other things they are selling.


who give a damn Fu.ck about Nova and Phoenix
LUL

all we care is EvE!
legit


A single product protfolio is kinda bad tho. As long as they run on one income source, they are always withing one real bad expansion of being in major troubles.
Frostys Virpio
Caldari Provisions
Caldari State
#246 - 2017-03-13 18:09:30 UTC
Jenn aSide wrote:
Frostys Virpio wrote:
Jenn aSide wrote:
mkint wrote:
Safety is a non-issue. Getting people engaged is the issue, that's where the game has been failing.


This is why EVE did better when it was "here is a space ship, **** you". How some of these people can't understand that is beyond me.

The 'safety' people honestly think more safety is the answer. They are making the same kind of mistake modern day parents make, ie "if i keep my child safe enough, they will be ok". What they end up with is a bunch of people who can't function in the adult world and who need their participation trophies to feel special.

I don't think people like that are capable of changing their ways though, when your whole self image is built around "hey, look at what a good person I am, I oppose space tyranny in a video game", there's just no helping it Twisted


I want your opinion on something following this. Do you think there is opportunity to raise subs in the "here is a ship now **** you" player market at this point? Since no matter how we slice it, EVE need to renew it's subscriber base at least as fast as it lose subs to stay as active as it is now.


I think there are un-tapped people who like games that treat them like adults, yes. Even in this day and age, there are people who like a challenge.

No I can't say for certain that CCP backing off some of the hand holding will make a difference at this point, but who knows. CCPs big mistake imo was trying to expand EVE out of it's niche rather than just trying to make it the best niche game it could be and making some separate mainstream offerings for people who want that.

Seems like business wise they are on the right track with Phoenix and maybe Nova and the other things they are selling.


Well they only really have one product and that probably weighted in the balance.
Soel Reit
The Scope
Gallente Federation
#247 - 2017-03-13 18:13:58 UTC
Frostys Virpio wrote:
Soel Reit wrote:
Jenn aSide wrote:


Seems like business wise they are on the right track with Phoenix and maybe Nova and the other things they are selling.


who give a damn Fu.ck about Nova and Phoenix
LUL

all we care is EvE!
legit


A single product protfolio is kinda bad tho. As long as they run on one income source, they are always withing one real bad expansion of being in major troubles.


i perfectly know that.
but keep doing errors like dust etc.... i mean they are clearly investing eve's income in other games....
do you think that customers don't notice that?

if they keep getting flops like dust then...
not only they'll lose those new games... but even EvE due to not enough investiments to keep it up due to competition

and yea... generally we can only watch right? not our business sadlySad
Torin Corax
Iron Inquisition
Hisec Miners
#248 - 2017-03-13 18:15:34 UTC
Frostys Virpio wrote:


A single product protfolio is kinda bad tho. As long as they run on one income source, they are always withing one real bad expansion of being in major troubles.


To be fair, there have been some bad expansions...but Eve is still here.
Diversification is fine, hard to find a business that isn't doing this nowadays. As long as Eve remains the "Flagship" it's no skin off my nose.
Herzog Wolfhammer
Sigma Special Tactics Group
#249 - 2017-03-13 23:05:17 UTC  |  Edited by: Herzog Wolfhammer
Infinity Ziona wrote:
Teckos Pech wrote:
Infinity Ziona wrote:


Wow...so you had too respond to me twice and yet you keep getting it wrong.



As an economist I will say this,

You do not understand the game. That what we see is only the tip of the iceberg. The rest of the iceberg is not seen it is below the water line. When you say suicide ganking is easy that is simply not true. It is not like some random group of players decide to do it. No, instead it is Miniluv, CODE. or some other group. A group that has an SRP, comms, FCs, a logistics operation to ensure there are ships in place, etc.

All of that you want to discount as meaningless and of zero cost.

This makes you a liar...a despicably lying douche bag.

And despite several rounds of nerfs to ganking here you are again saying that more nerfs are needed. And you are oblivious to the fact that CCP keeps on boning you in the butt. For every "nerf" they give you they also do you in the butt like the little bitches you are. Please CCP nerf ganking and do me in the butt again and again so I know my place as the dirty little tart I am. That is what you are Infinity Ziona. CCP's dirty little laughing stock of a butt **** that they throw out on the garbage heap after the fun of Fanfest. And you keep crawling back to them again and again, and they keep treating you like the cheap whore that you are.

:)

In Desperation ignore the facts and go spazy ad hominem. Love it. Post more xx


It's Teckos and he already had a meltdown on a thread like this before. Poor fellow. There's a lot that Teckos and I have in common except I beat my demons instead of becoming one.


Notably this thread appears to touch on the topic of the "safety of highsec" and the PVP across the board from highsec to null, with the usual argument of that PVP.

I just returned from a business trip to Germany where I get to be a user of the train systems there, and also hear of some shenanigans going on, such as an ax attack.

Admittedly the line running from say Mannheim to Frankfurt was NOT camped with angry fellows (religious or not) looking to get all stabby or axy.


Why?

Because those who do it do it one time. That's why.

So we have a problem here where the sov/PVP/risk-reward zones are a kind of "wild wild west" but highsec is a broken wild west where the bad guys are back in 15 minutes to keep doing it again.

What, ultimately, is the difference? Well in the civilized world you pay a lot of money in taxes. If you work in say a city that is relatively safe and you can expect your stuff to be where you leave it if you take your eyes off it for a minute, you are going to pay goodly sums in taxes.

But if you want to make some bank out in the middle of nowhere and rake in all that you want from your efforts, someone can lay a bullet into your brain stem with a sniper rig and take all your stuff.

The difference is that the person who does that in the city is going to be hard pressed to do it again if they get return fire or put in a cage.

See the difference? Rigged game and the HTFU crowd banks their e-peen on it. Potential players see that and go somewhere else.

Were it up to me™ I would make highsec very safe: no gate activations and no docking rights for criminals, at any time, any place. Criminals' clone vats automatically plunked to lowsec too. So there.

But the taxes of highsec would get VERY high. Like Negan level "half your sh!t". So if someone wants to suck little rocks all day for pesos or multibox missions for a month to afford one PLEX, then there is no need to brand them a carebear and make them suffer: the tax rate makes them suffer. But there won't be so many criminals either and the noobs can incubate.

Of course such a move goes against the fox in the henhouse mindset of the community... or what's left of it. It's nice to be able to log in for free and sell stuff off.

Bring back DEEEEP Space!

Doris Laur
TheAuthority
Pigships
#250 - 2017-03-13 23:20:42 UTC
"Alphas and F2P have failed."

Really, I think we are doing very well, thank you very much. It's working as intended.
Infinity Ziona
Sebiestor Tribe
Minmatar Republic
#251 - 2017-03-14 00:32:45 UTC
Herzog Wolfhammer wrote:
Infinity Ziona wrote:
Teckos Pech wrote:
Infinity Ziona wrote:


Wow...so you had too respond to me twice and yet you keep getting it wrong.



As an economist I will say this,

You do not understand the game. That what we see is only the tip of the iceberg. The rest of the iceberg is not seen it is below the water line. When you say suicide ganking is easy that is simply not true. It is not like some random group of players decide to do it. No, instead it is Miniluv, CODE. or some other group. A group that has an SRP, comms, FCs, a logistics operation to ensure there are ships in place, etc.

All of that you want to discount as meaningless and of zero cost.

This makes you a liar...a despicably lying douche bag.

And despite several rounds of nerfs to ganking here you are again saying that more nerfs are needed. And you are oblivious to the fact that CCP keeps on boning you in the butt. For every "nerf" they give you they also do you in the butt like the little bitches you are. Please CCP nerf ganking and do me in the butt again and again so I know my place as the dirty little tart I am. That is what you are Infinity Ziona. CCP's dirty little laughing stock of a butt **** that they throw out on the garbage heap after the fun of Fanfest. And you keep crawling back to them again and again, and they keep treating you like the cheap whore that you are.

:)

In Desperation ignore the facts and go spazy ad hominem. Love it. Post more xx


It's Teckos and he already had a meltdown on a thread like this before. Poor fellow. There's a lot that Teckos and I have in common except I beat my demons instead of becoming one.


Notably this thread appears to touch on the topic of the "safety of highsec" and the PVP across the board from highsec to null, with the usual argument of that PVP.

I just returned from a business trip to Germany where I get to be a user of the train systems there, and also hear of some shenanigans going on, such as an ax attack.

Admittedly the line running from say Mannheim to Frankfurt was NOT camped with angry fellows (religious or not) looking to get all stabby or axy.


Why?

Because those who do it do it one time. That's why.

So we have a problem here where the sov/PVP/risk-reward zones are a kind of "wild wild west" but highsec is a broken wild west where the bad guys are back in 15 minutes to keep doing it again.

What, ultimately, is the difference? Well in the civilized world you pay a lot of money in taxes. If you work in say a city that is relatively safe and you can expect your stuff to be where you leave it if you take your eyes off it for a minute, you are going to pay goodly sums in taxes.

But if you want to make some bank out in the middle of nowhere and rake in all that you want from your efforts, someone can lay a bullet into your brain stem with a sniper rig and take all your stuff.

The difference is that the person who does that in the city is going to be hard pressed to do it again if they get return fire or put in a cage.

See the difference? Rigged game and the HTFU crowd banks their e-peen on it. Potential players see that and go somewhere else.

Were it up to me™ I would make highsec very safe: no gate activations and no docking rights for criminals, at any time, any place. Criminals' clone vats automatically plunked to lowsec too. So there.

But the taxes of highsec would get VERY high. Like Negan level "half your sh!t". So if someone wants to suck little rocks all day for pesos or multibox missions for a month to afford one PLEX, then there is no need to brand them a carebear and make them suffer: the tax rate makes them suffer. But there won't be so many criminals either and the noobs can incubate.

Of course such a move goes against the fox in the henhouse mindset of the community... or what's left of it. It's nice to be able to log in for free and sell stuff off.

Agreed. You don't even need to tax. PvE only means are not competing in PvP so their isk has no bearing on the PvP scene. Who really cares if some guy in high has every ship in the game filled with purples in his hanger and a trillion isk in his wallet. All that means is higher prices in high sec which is what null needs to create its own industry.

CCP Fozzie “We can see how much money people are making in nullsec and it is, a gigantic amount, a shit-ton… in null sec anomalies. “*

Kaalrus pwned..... :)

Shae Tadaruwa
Science and Trade Institute
Caldari State
#252 - 2017-03-14 00:48:11 UTC  |  Edited by: Shae Tadaruwa
Herzog Wolfhammer wrote:
But if you want to make some bank out in the middle of nowhere and rake in all that you want from your efforts, someone can lay a bullet into your brain stem with a sniper rig and take all your stuff.

The difference is that the person who does that in the city is going to be hard pressed to do it again if they get return fire or put in a cage.

If you want to take a ridiculous real world comparison, then do it all the way.

No one is more remote than being in space. Certainly far more remote than the middle of nowhere on Earth where someone might be able to put a bullet in your brain stem (like really...the mentality of carebears).

That doesn't even compare to the remoteness of space in the slightest, because out in space you aren't in Frankfurt, or any other city. You'e in a vacuum (at least one with lots of water in it).

Alternatively, just take the much more reasonable view that this isn't RL, it's just a game. It's fine to shoot someone or be shot at anywhere, because it's just a game.

Dracvlad - "...Your intel is free intel, all you do is pay for it..." && "...If you warp on the same path as a cloaked ship, you'll make a bookmark at exactly the same spot as the cloaky camper..."

Herzog Wolfhammer
Sigma Special Tactics Group
#253 - 2017-03-14 01:39:39 UTC
Infinity Ziona wrote:
Herzog Wolfhammer wrote:
Infinity Ziona wrote:
Teckos Pech wrote:
Infinity Ziona wrote:


Wow...so you had too respond to me twice and yet you keep getting it wrong.



As an economist I will say this,

You do not understand the game. That what we see is only the tip of the iceberg. The rest of the iceberg is not seen it is below the water line. When you say suicide ganking is easy that is simply not true. It is not like some random group of players decide to do it. No, instead it is Miniluv, CODE. or some other group. A group that has an SRP, comms, FCs, a logistics operation to ensure there are ships in place, etc.

All of that you want to discount as meaningless and of zero cost.

This makes you a liar...a despicably lying douche bag.

And despite several rounds of nerfs to ganking here you are again saying that more nerfs are needed. And you are oblivious to the fact that CCP keeps on boning you in the butt. For every "nerf" they give you they also do you in the butt like the little bitches you are. Please CCP nerf ganking and do me in the butt again and again so I know my place as the dirty little tart I am. That is what you are Infinity Ziona. CCP's dirty little laughing stock of a butt **** that they throw out on the garbage heap after the fun of Fanfest. And you keep crawling back to them again and again, and they keep treating you like the cheap whore that you are.

:)

In Desperation ignore the facts and go spazy ad hominem. Love it. Post more xx


It's Teckos and he already had a meltdown on a thread like this before. Poor fellow. There's a lot that Teckos and I have in common except I beat my demons instead of becoming one.


Notably this thread appears to touch on the topic of the "safety of highsec" and the PVP across the board from highsec to null, with the usual argument of that PVP.

I just returned from a business trip to Germany where I get to be a user of the train systems there, and also hear of some shenanigans going on, such as an ax attack.

Admittedly the line running from say Mannheim to Frankfurt was NOT camped with angry fellows (religious or not) looking to get all stabby or axy.


Why?

Because those who do it do it one time. That's why.

So we have a problem here where the sov/PVP/risk-reward zones are a kind of "wild wild west" but highsec is a broken wild west where the bad guys are back in 15 minutes to keep doing it again.

What, ultimately, is the difference? Well in the civilized world you pay a lot of money in taxes. If you work in say a city that is relatively safe and you can expect your stuff to be where you leave it if you take your eyes off it for a minute, you are going to pay goodly sums in taxes.

But if you want to make some bank out in the middle of nowhere and rake in all that you want from your efforts, someone can lay a bullet into your brain stem with a sniper rig and take all your stuff.

The difference is that the person who does that in the city is going to be hard pressed to do it again if they get return fire or put in a cage.

See the difference? Rigged game and the HTFU crowd banks their e-peen on it. Potential players see that and go somewhere else.

Were it up to me™ I would make highsec very safe: no gate activations and no docking rights for criminals, at any time, any place. Criminals' clone vats automatically plunked to lowsec too. So there.

But the taxes of highsec would get VERY high. Like Negan level "half your sh!t". So if someone wants to suck little rocks all day for pesos or multibox missions for a month to afford one PLEX, then there is no need to brand them a carebear and make them suffer: the tax rate makes them suffer. But there won't be so many criminals either and the noobs can incubate.

Of course such a move goes against the fox in the henhouse mindset of the community... or what's left of it. It's nice to be able to log in for free and sell stuff off.

Agreed. You don't even need to tax. PvE only means are not competing in PvP so their isk has no bearing on the PvP scene. Who really cares if some guy in high has every ship in the game filled with purples in his hanger and a trillion isk in his wallet. All that means is higher prices in high sec which is what null needs to create its own industry.



True dat. Inflation is a tax as well.

Imagine if highsec had tariffs on all those goods moving through there to pay for all that policing and all that keeping baddies out?

NAHHHHH what's half of (what's left of) the player base going to do without Jita?

Bring back DEEEEP Space!

Herzog Wolfhammer
Sigma Special Tactics Group
#254 - 2017-03-14 01:43:33 UTC
Shae Tadaruwa wrote:
Herzog Wolfhammer wrote:
But if you want to make some bank out in the middle of nowhere and rake in all that you want from your efforts, someone can lay a bullet into your brain stem with a sniper rig and take all your stuff.

The difference is that the person who does that in the city is going to be hard pressed to do it again if they get return fire or put in a cage.

If you want to take a ridiculous real world comparison, then do it all the way.

No one is more remote than being in space. Certainly far more remote than the middle of nowhere on Earth where someone might be able to put a bullet in your brain stem (like really...the mentality of carebears).

That doesn't even compare to the remoteness of space in the slightest, because out in space you aren't in Frankfurt, or any other city. You'e in a vacuum (at least one with lots of water in it).

Alternatively, just take the much more reasonable view that this isn't RL, it's just a game. It's fine to shoot someone or be shot at anywhere, because it's just a game.



But the "jollies" of the HTFU and gank crowd is real. Why not take it all the way and make any out of game blog (out of character pointing and laughing at carebears and miners when you wind them up, no more E1, etc) against the rules?

See how that works? BTW I knew you would respond with that. Your type is predictable as usual. I expect Teckos to lose sleep over my idea in the same modus of a scab being irresistible.

Bring back DEEEEP Space!

Shae Tadaruwa
Science and Trade Institute
Caldari State
#255 - 2017-03-14 02:05:48 UTC  |  Edited by: Shae Tadaruwa
Herzog Wolfhammer wrote:
But the "jollies" of the HTFU and gank crowd is real. Why not take it all the way and make any out of game blog (out of character pointing and laughing at carebears and miners when you wind them up, no more E1, etc) against the rules?

See how that works? BTW I knew you would respond with that. Your type is predictable as usual. I expect Teckos to lose sleep over my idea in the same modus of a scab being irresistible.


Sure. Make all in game abuse automatically permanently bannable to.

The Carebear threats that relate out of game (eg. wishes that people die, that their families will be hunted, etc.), make all those Carebears automatically kicked from the game forever.

Do that and none of the 'winding up' you cry about can ever happen, because everyone left will be people able to control their emotions.

Then make all out of game blogs (and I assume you also mean other forms of out of game communication too, not just blogs) against the rules.

I know which group will whinge the loudest about all that...as always, the Carebears.

Dracvlad - "...Your intel is free intel, all you do is pay for it..." && "...If you warp on the same path as a cloaked ship, you'll make a bookmark at exactly the same spot as the cloaky camper..."

Scialt
Universal Sanitation Corporation
#256 - 2017-03-14 02:15:22 UTC
Frostys Virpio wrote:
Jenn aSide wrote:
mkint wrote:
Safety is a non-issue. Getting people engaged is the issue, that's where the game has been failing.


This is why EVE did better when it was "here is a space ship, **** you". How some of these people can't understand that is beyond me.

The 'safety' people honestly think more safety is the answer. They are making the same kind of mistake modern day parents make, ie "if i keep my child safe enough, they will be ok". What they end up with is a bunch of people who can't function in the adult world and who need their participation trophies to feel special.

I don't think people like that are capable of changing their ways though, when your whole self image is built around "hey, look at what a good person I am, I oppose space tyranny in a video game", there's just no helping it Twisted


I want your opinion on something following this. Do you think there is opportunity to raise subs in the "here is a ship now **** you" player market at this point? Since no matter how we slice it, EVE need to renew it's subscriber base at least as fast as it lose subs to stay as active as it is now.


The problem Eve has with subscriptions is the same problem many games have.... the age.

This has nothing to do with graphics or anything like that... it's how MMO's mature.

When a game starts, people are joining as they learn about it. It often starts slow and then gets bigger and bigger as people hear about a "cool new game".

Then, people start reaching the "end game". I know... people say "eve has no end game"... well there are "end ships". I remember what a big deal the first Titans were (and the first Titan kill). When people reach the end-game (or start getting close in the case of skills and ships for EVE) the developers have to start adding content for the end game. In other games it's raising the level cap and pushing the end game further out (making what was the end game now a "mid game" place). In EVE it's adding new ships and skills... from T2's to Titans to T3's. Eventually the gap gets so big it intimidates new players... and this starts the decline in this type of game.

Now Eve has actually handled this better than most games I've seen (which is why it still is around)... but it's still there. You want to be a Titan Pilot? Train for 3-4 years or spend a LOT of money on skill injectors.

I'm not saying this is bad... it's just the lifecycle of a MMORPG. All of them reward those who've been active for a long time. But that eventually creates a gap that tends to make it tough to get new players. I'm not sure there's a whole lot more that can be done. I think the unlimited trial setup has brought some players who left for a time back (like myself). But no amount of "new player benefits" is going to erase the fact that many toons have 10-15 years of training and asset accumulation on them. There are a large number of people who don't want to jump on board with a game when they feel like they're that far "behind".
Infinity Ziona
Sebiestor Tribe
Minmatar Republic
#257 - 2017-03-14 03:00:17 UTC
Herzog Wolfhammer wrote:
Shae Tadaruwa wrote:
Herzog Wolfhammer wrote:
But if you want to make some bank out in the middle of nowhere and rake in all that you want from your efforts, someone can lay a bullet into your brain stem with a sniper rig and take all your stuff.

The difference is that the person who does that in the city is going to be hard pressed to do it again if they get return fire or put in a cage.

If you want to take a ridiculous real world comparison, then do it all the way.

No one is more remote than being in space. Certainly far more remote than the middle of nowhere on Earth where someone might be able to put a bullet in your brain stem (like really...the mentality of carebears).

That doesn't even compare to the remoteness of space in the slightest, because out in space you aren't in Frankfurt, or any other city. You'e in a vacuum (at least one with lots of water in it).

Alternatively, just take the much more reasonable view that this isn't RL, it's just a game. It's fine to shoot someone or be shot at anywhere, because it's just a game.



But the "jollies" of the HTFU and gank crowd is real. Why not take it all the way and make any out of game blog (out of character pointing and laughing at carebears and miners when you wind them up, no more E1, etc) against the rules?

See how that works? BTW I knew you would respond with that. Your type is predictable as usual. I expect Teckos to lose sleep over my idea in the same modus of a scab being irresistible.


The other thing to that comment is its much more reasonable given this is not RL to use the 7,000 pure PvP systems to PvP in. Apart from war decs leave the people who don't want to PvP alone in their 1/7 of the space you have, go play with your capitals, citidels and all the other rewards you get for PvP'ing in those 7,000 systems. The more people that are paying IRL money to play the game the more money CCP gets and the more toys and systems that get added. Since its a game it really shouldn't be bothering people that some choose the carebear life, at least not to the extent it seems to bother some people in this thread, surely this is just a sideline thing you do in your greater life and not your greater life.... I hope.

CCP Fozzie “We can see how much money people are making in nullsec and it is, a gigantic amount, a shit-ton… in null sec anomalies. “*

Kaalrus pwned..... :)

Teckos Pech
Hogyoku
Goonswarm Federation
#258 - 2017-03-14 04:34:13 UTC
Scialt wrote:


The problem Eve has with subscriptions is the same problem many games have.... the age.

This has nothing to do with graphics or anything like that... it's how MMO's mature.

When a game starts, people are joining as they learn about it. It often starts slow and then gets bigger and bigger as people hear about a "cool new game".


Actually, what you are describing is true of many products, this pattern has a name: Bass Diffusion.

At first the growth is exponential, then it tapers off to be logarithmic. The problem is that not only has growth tapered off people have left. As to why they have left is open to much speculation. I am in the camp of "people have left because CCP has been making the game less dangerous, less interesting." Not sure what the other side's argument is since they really haven't articulated one. Instead they argue the future of the game is in getting people who are not into PvP to play the game and drastically change the game to suit these new potential customers.

Quote:
Then, people start reaching the "end game". I know... people say "eve has no end game"... well there are "end ships". I remember what a big deal the first Titans were (and the first Titan kill). When people reach the end-game (or start getting close in the case of skills and ships for EVE) the developers have to start adding content for the end game. In other games it's raising the level cap and pushing the end game further out (making what was the end game now a "mid game" place). In EVE it's adding new ships and skills... from T2's to Titans to T3's. Eventually the gap gets so big it intimidates new players... and this starts the decline in this type of game.


I tend to discount the skill gap argument. Yes, I have alot of SP. But whenever I am in a given ship the SP that apply to that ship and the modules are all that matter. And those SP might be 10-15 million SP. Which is still alot, but it is not a giant gap when comparing my 146 million SP to some other guys 26 million SP.

Quote:
Now Eve has actually handled this better than most games I've seen (which is why it still is around)... but it's still there. You want to be a Titan Pilot? Train for 3-4 years or spend a LOT of money on skill injectors.


Not only do SP extractors/injectors allow for players to catch up who really want too, it also creates an SP sink reducing the over all pool of SP in the game.

Quote:
I'm not saying this is bad... it's just the lifecycle of a MMORPG. All of them reward those who've been active for a long time. But that eventually creates a gap that tends to make it tough to get new players. I'm not sure there's a whole lot more that can be done. I think the unlimited trial setup has brought some players who left for a time back (like myself). But no amount of "new player benefits" is going to erase the fact that many toons have 10-15 years of training and asset accumulation on them. There are a large number of people who don't want to jump on board with a game when they feel like they're that far "behind".


First off many of those players with 10+ years of time in game aren't playing anymore. If one decides, "I'm not going to play because I can never catch that tiny fraction who are still playing and have been for a long time..." well I'm thinking they wouldn't stay anyways. Further, with SP extractors/injectors new players can close that SP gap faster if they want too and have the RL ISK. Worrying that some player with 200+ million SP is going to come across you and beat you is like worrying about running into a grizzly bear in Time's Square. And if you really think it might be likely, grabe 4-5 friends and bone him.

"The curious task of economics is to demonstrate to men how little they really know about what they imagine they can design."--Friedrich August von Hayek

8 Golden Rules for EVE Online

Kaybella Hakaari
State War Academy
Caldari State
#259 - 2017-03-14 04:53:38 UTC
Infinity Ziona wrote:
The other thing to that comment is its much more reasonable given this is not RL to use the 7,000 pure PvP systems to PvP in. Apart from war decs leave the people who don't want to PvP alone in their 1/7 of the space you have, go play with your capitals, citidels and all the other rewards you get for PvP'ing in those 7,000 systems. The more people that are paying IRL money to play the game the more money CCP gets and the more toys and systems that get added. Since its a game it really shouldn't be bothering people that some choose the carebear life, at least not to the extent it seems to bother some people in this thread, surely this is just a sideline thing you do in your greater life and not your greater life.... I hope.

Someone hasn't been exploring in hisec. What do you call it when you get in a race to kill the last rat in a hisec anom? It's a contest, and most definitely PvP, even if you and the other guy both (usually) leave with your ships.

Do we want to take that out too?
morion
Lighting Build
#260 - 2017-03-14 05:03:44 UTC  |  Edited by: morion
Infinity Ziona wrote:
Who really cares if some guy in high has every ship in the game filled with purples in his hanger (and a trillion isk in his wallet. All that means is higher prices in high sec) which is what null needs to create its own industry.


a trillion isk in there wallet that is "not" in circulation results in "lower prices"

A model built of "door nobs" having a hand full of purple loot and buckets of isk only spells deflation.

I'm moor Stick approach to easy logistics to incentivize / force null industry.

Coupled with "not passive" >low yield< high security moon mining.