These forums have been archived and are now read-only.

The new forums are live and can be found at https://forums.eveonline.com/

EVE General Discussion

 
  • Topic is locked indefinitely.
 

Low-sec Hopes and Changes
Author
Previous Topic Next Topic
Salvos Rhoska
#501 - 2017-03-22 18:46:20 UTC  |  Edited by: Salvos Rhoska
Orakkus wrote:
In addition, in order to make Low-sec more viable it NEEDS cynos and caps. It needs to develop an industrial base, and you can't have that if you can't import and export materials and goods. And you can't have an industrial base without people, and you can't have people without some measure of safety and convenience. And once you have more people, then and only then do you get more content.


Explain how LS industry cant be viable without cynos or caps.

Once cynos/caps are removed, your import/export is improved, as you dont need to fear cyno/cap drops that grossly exceed your effort or capacity to deal with them.

Subcaps will be sufficient, and its far easier to find sub-cap players, than cap players.

PvE v PvP <> Old School Exploration <> CODE Licenses <> CODE Special Agent
Lan Wang
Princess Aiko Hold My Hand
Safety. Net
#502 - 2017-03-22 18:47:50 UTC
Salvos Rhoska wrote:
Orakkus wrote:
In addition, in order to make Low-sec more viable it NEEDS cynos and caps. It needs to develop an industrial base, and you can't have that if you can't import and export materials and goods. And you can't have an industrial base without people, and you can't have people without some measure of safety and convenience. And once you have more people, then and only then do you get more content.


Explain how LS industry cant be viable without cynos or caps.

Once cynos/caps are removed, your import/export is improved, as you dont need to fear cyno/cap drops that grossly exceed your effort or capacity to deal with them.


no its not because you need to take gates through pirate infested space!

Domination Nephilim - Angel Cartel

Calm down miner. As you pointed out, people think they can get away with stuff they would not in rl... Like for example illegal mining... - Ima Wreckyou*
Shae Tadaruwa
Science and Trade Institute
Caldari State
#503 - 2017-03-22 18:51:00 UTC
Salvos Rhoska wrote:
Orakkus wrote:
In addition, in order to make Low-sec more viable it NEEDS cynos and caps. It needs to develop an industrial base, and you can't have that if you can't import and export materials and goods. And you can't have an industrial base without people, and you can't have people without some measure of safety and convenience. And once you have more people, then and only then do you get more content.


Explain how LS industry cant be viable without cynos or caps.

Once cynos/caps are removed, your import/export is improved, as you dont need to fear cyno/cap drops that grossly exceed your effort or capacity to deal with them.

Subcaps will be sufficient, and its far easier to find sub-cap players, than cap players.

If you can't get your goods to market, there's no point manufacturing.

Dracvlad - "...Your intel is free intel, all you do is pay for it..." && "...If you warp on the same path as a cloaked ship, you'll make a bookmark at exactly the same spot as the cloaky camper..."
Scialt
Corporate Navy Police Force
Sleep Reapers
#504 - 2017-03-22 19:05:03 UTC
Salvos Rhoska wrote:
"Gatecamps are almost never target specific... they blow up the loan rifter or venture that they can catch just as much as they do a freighter. They make travelling more difficult for everyone."

This already happens. My change, does not change that.


Your change drastically increases the number of camps. So instead of having to dodge one camp you now have to dodge 20. That makes travel for everyone in lowsec more of a pain.

Salvos Rhoska wrote:

"It feels like the main impact of what you're suggesting is to change lowsec into a zone where the primary action is moving supplies and protecting them vs gatecampers pirating them. "

This too, is already what LS largely is. Except cynos enable JFs and other cargo vessels to bypass gates, and caps/cynos allow dropping overwhelming force ontop of any attempt to intercept it.


Umm... that's not what I see. I see FW, PVE and industry operations in lowsec. This would hurt those things and only leave gatecamps and null-sec logistics.

Salvos Rhoska wrote:

"It would seriously put breaks on industrial/PVE/FW operations due to the larger number of gatecamps that would pop up (due to their being more targets). "

Lack of cynos/caps doesnt put a break on those. (as in two quotes above).
Gatecamps already exist. The number of gatecamps is irrelevant, since cynos jump past them as is now.


The groups that do lowsec industry generally use cynos to export their goods with jumpfreighters now... which means removing that ability hurts them a ton. If they don't... they'll be having to dodge a LOT more gatecamps which hurts them a ton. Either way they get hurt a ton. Those in FW rarely use cynos (except for supplies) as they are mostly fighting in non-caps already. Having a lot more gatecamping makes their movement in their home space a lot more difficult (as well as their supply issues). So I disagree with your assessment.

The number of gatecamps is hugely relevant. It makes all life in low-sec aside from those camping others more annoying. Because of that it has a supressing impact on those living in low-sec... because they're looking for either small gang/solo PvP (in the case of FW) and getting blobs... or they're looking for industry/PVE and getting blobbed at every gate.

Look... taking away JF's will make lowsec a pure gatecamp zone. It will pretty much hinder EVERYTHING ELSE in lowsec because people doing everything else want to avoid gatecamps and this will cause the number of camps to become huge. FW will diminish. Low Sec industry will diminish. PVE in lowsec will diminish.

I fail to see how that helps lowsec.
Salvos Rhoska
#505 - 2017-03-22 19:07:19 UTC
Lan Wang wrote:
no its not because you need to take gates through pirate infested space!

Lol

Thats what LS is, and should be.

PvE v PvP <> Old School Exploration <> CODE Licenses <> CODE Special Agent
Salvos Rhoska
#506 - 2017-03-22 19:08:35 UTC
Shae Tadaruwa wrote:
If you can't get your goods to market, there's no point manufacturing.


Every system has a market.

PvE v PvP <> Old School Exploration <> CODE Licenses <> CODE Special Agent
Shae Tadaruwa
Science and Trade Institute
Caldari State
#507 - 2017-03-22 19:10:37 UTC
Salvos Rhoska wrote:
Shae Tadaruwa wrote:
If you can't get your goods to market, there's no point manufacturing.


Every system has a market.

Not every system has customers.

Think Salvos. I know it's hard for you, but you can't sell goods to non-existing customers, hence the need to move goods to where they can be sold.

To not understand this.. no surprise.

Dracvlad - "...Your intel is free intel, all you do is pay for it..." && "...If you warp on the same path as a cloaked ship, you'll make a bookmark at exactly the same spot as the cloaky camper..."
Orakkus
ImperiaI Federation
Goonswarm Federation
#508 - 2017-03-22 19:10:53 UTC
Salvos Rhoska wrote:

Lol

Thats what LS is, and should be.


Your idea destroys content. People won't live in space that they can't get to reasonably safely. All your idea does is effectively turn it into another version of wormhole space, only with less protection and even less reason to operate there.

You keep forgetting people are content. So no people, no content.

He's not just famous, he's "IN" famous. - Ned Nederlander
Salvos Rhoska
#509 - 2017-03-22 19:12:36 UTC
Scialt wrote:
Snip


Escort your cargo and clear the gates for transit.

Sorry you can no longer lol-cyno past them.

PvE v PvP <> Old School Exploration <> CODE Licenses <> CODE Special Agent
Salvos Rhoska
#510 - 2017-03-22 19:16:38 UTC  |  Edited by: Salvos Rhoska
Orakkus wrote:
Your idea destroys content.

My idea creates content by making gatecamps conflict drivers, as they should be.

No more lol-cynoing past them. No more lol-dropping caps on them.

Beat it with subcaps, as the gatecamp is sub-caps itself.
Or route through uncamped gates.
Or fly your cargo in ships that can pass the gatecamp.

There is currently vast wealth cynoing right over your head in LS.
You dont get any content from it.
I aim to remedy that.

PvE v PvP <> Old School Exploration <> CODE Licenses <> CODE Special Agent
Shae Tadaruwa
Science and Trade Institute
Caldari State
#511 - 2017-03-22 19:16:44 UTC
Salvos Rhoska wrote:
Sorry you can no longer lol-cyno past them.

We can't.

When did this change happen?

Dracvlad - "...Your intel is free intel, all you do is pay for it..." && "...If you warp on the same path as a cloaked ship, you'll make a bookmark at exactly the same spot as the cloaky camper..."
Salvos Rhoska
#512 - 2017-03-22 19:18:05 UTC
Shae Tadaruwa wrote:
Not every system has customers.


Every system has customers.

PvE v PvP <> Old School Exploration <> CODE Licenses <> CODE Special Agent
Salvos Rhoska
#513 - 2017-03-22 19:19:26 UTC
Shae Tadaruwa wrote:
Salvos Rhoska wrote:
Sorry you can no longer lol-cyno past them.

We can't.

When did this change happen?


Hur-dur.

Post-change, obviously.

Read name of thread again?

PvE v PvP <> Old School Exploration <> CODE Licenses <> CODE Special Agent
Shae Tadaruwa
Science and Trade Institute
Caldari State
#514 - 2017-03-22 19:19:28 UTC
Salvos Rhoska wrote:
Shae Tadaruwa wrote:
Not every system has customers.


Every system has customers.

Liar. That statement is so full of **** and it is deliberate.

Such a pointless stupid discussion. The usual stuff from you.

Dracvlad - "...Your intel is free intel, all you do is pay for it..." && "...If you warp on the same path as a cloaked ship, you'll make a bookmark at exactly the same spot as the cloaky camper..."
Lan Wang
Princess Aiko Hold My Hand
Safety. Net
#515 - 2017-03-22 19:20:42 UTC
Shae Tadaruwa wrote:
[Such a pointless stupid discussion. The usual stuff from you.


+1 im done with this noodle brain he doesnt have a clue

Domination Nephilim - Angel Cartel

Calm down miner. As you pointed out, people think they can get away with stuff they would not in rl... Like for example illegal mining... - Ima Wreckyou*
Salvos Rhoska
#516 - 2017-03-22 19:24:06 UTC
Shae Tadaruwa wrote:
Salvos Rhoska wrote:
Shae Tadaruwa wrote:
Not every system has customers.


Every system has customers.

Liar. That statement is so full of **** and it is deliberate..


Tell me one system that doesnt have customers?

PvE v PvP <> Old School Exploration <> CODE Licenses <> CODE Special Agent
Scialt
Corporate Navy Police Force
Sleep Reapers
#517 - 2017-03-22 19:24:07 UTC
Salvos Rhoska wrote:
Scialt wrote:
Snip


Escort your cargo and clear the gates for transit.

Sorry you can no longer lol-cyno past them.


As I said before... what I do in low-sec is FW.

I'll probably move to be nearly full-time in null with this change were it to be implemented.

I agree it will make it more difficult for people transporting stuff. It will also make it more difficult for everyone else to move around aside from gatecampers in low-sec... including me looking for small-group and solo fights in complexes.

Which is the point that I was making that you're trying to minimize. The impact of your change is to make the only residents of low-sec be gatecampers and the primary visitors being large null-sec groups moving stuff from null to high-sec. You'll drive most everyone else out.

Low-sec will simply be a gatecamp zone that people who MUST travel through will have to deal with and everyone else will avoid. I don't see that as being beneficial to low-sec in general.
Salvos Rhoska
#518 - 2017-03-22 19:24:57 UTC
Lan Wang wrote:
Shae Tadaruwa wrote:
[Such a pointless stupid discussion. The usual stuff from you.


+1 im done with this noodle brain he doesnt have a clue


Bye!

PvE v PvP <> Old School Exploration <> CODE Licenses <> CODE Special Agent
Orakkus
ImperiaI Federation
Goonswarm Federation
#519 - 2017-03-22 19:27:40 UTC  |  Edited by: Orakkus
Salvos Rhoska wrote:
Orakkus wrote:
Your idea destroys content.

My idea creates content by making gatecamps conflict drivers, as they should be.

No more lol-cynoing past them. No more lol-dropping caps on them.

Beat it with subcaps, as the gatecamp is sub-caps itself.
Or route through uncamped gates.
Or fly your cargo in ships that can pass the gatecamp.


Gatecamps were never conflict drivers, they were only content. Conflict drivers required groups of people operating at a strategic level. While your idea would become a conflict driver.. it would remove other, more effective conflict drivers that have a larger impact on the game, and involve more people.

So yes, your idea would destroy content without good reason and would disenfranchise far more people than you know.

He's not just famous, he's "IN" famous. - Ned Nederlander
Orakkus
ImperiaI Federation
Goonswarm Federation
#520 - 2017-03-22 19:28:30 UTC
Salvos Rhoska wrote:
Shae Tadaruwa wrote:
Salvos Rhoska wrote:
Shae Tadaruwa wrote:
Not every system has customers.


Every system has customers.

Liar. That statement is so full of **** and it is deliberate..


Tell me one system that doesnt have customers?

Empty ones.. like the ones that would exist under your perpetually bad ideas.

He's not just famous, he's "IN" famous. - Ned Nederlander