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Low-sec Hopes and Changes
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Salvos Rhoska
#361 - 2017-03-20 18:31:12 UTC
Orakkus wrote:
Salvos Rhoska wrote:


Explain to me how cynos/caps are justified in LS.


Citadel bashing
POS bashing
Other caps
Combat Escalation


I didnt ask you in the context I asked him.

Citadel bashing, POS bashing, combat escalations, do not need cynos or caps
The same happens in HS, under even stricter engagement rules, everyday, without cynos or caps.

If caps are removed from LS, as I propose, you wont need caps to counter them.

PvE v PvP <> Old School Exploration <> CODE Licenses <> CODE Special Agent
Frostys Virpio
State War Academy
Caldari State
#362 - 2017-03-20 18:36:16 UTC
Salvos Rhoska wrote:
Orakkus wrote:
Salvos Rhoska wrote:


Explain to me how cynos/caps are justified in LS.


Citadel bashing
POS bashing
Other caps
Combat Escalation


I didnt ask you in the context I asked him.

Citadel bashing, POS bashing, combat escalations, do not need cynos or caps
The same happens in HS, under even stricter engagement rules, everyday, without cynos or caps.

If caps are removed from LS, as I propose, you wont need caps to counter them.


By your "logic" we should remove cynos and caps from null too since I can do all everything in a sub-cap there too.
Salvos Rhoska
#363 - 2017-03-20 18:38:19 UTC  |  Edited by: Salvos Rhoska
Lan Wang wrote:
Salvos Rhoska wrote:
Lan Wang wrote:
We will continue to play with our caps in lowsec like the game allows us to, you think they dont belong there but ccp disagrees otherwise they wouldnt be there, ok?


Sure, go ahead and play.

That doesnt stop me from pointing out the issues with cynos/caps existing in LS.



bubbles and smartbombs (so you call them) are not a reason to remove something, they are easy avoidable, if i want to light a cyno in nullsec a fcking bubble isnt gonna stop me, so you basing that bubbles are some sort of capital ship deterant which gives some crazy advantage to engagement terms is stupid


Nobody has said bubbles or smartbombs prevent cynos.

The issue is that LS DOES have restrictions, whereas NS does not.

Answer me this:
-When LS has cynos and caps as does NS, but not bubbles or smartbombs, (which you have stated dont stop cynos), what is the goddam point of LS?

Gateguns? Crap PI/mining/sigs compared to NS?

PvE v PvP <> Old School Exploration <> CODE Licenses <> CODE Special Agent
Frostys Virpio
State War Academy
Caldari State
#364 - 2017-03-20 18:39:26 UTC  |  Edited by: Frostys Virpio
Jenn aSide wrote:


Quote:
We get (hopefully!):

A more comprehensible, streamlined and robust way of showing who owns a particular system
A better conquest experience
More organic, meaningful and fun small-fleet combat
Less territorial sprawl by major alliances
A more diverse and interesting political landscape
More opportunities for players to get involved in nullsec
More awesome emergent gameplay


We know that Dominion did the OPPOSITE of all of that, and in dramatic fashion too. CCP (like Salvos does with his posts) made the mistake of thinking you can engineer people's behavior. You can't, people are opportunistic and devious and will find a way around your game design intentions.

That being said I knod of hope CCP does some of the things Salvos wants to see done. It's clear that you can't just explain things to folks like that, they need to see the bad results of a thing to learn.


Well they had one right no? I mean, didn't people start anchoring SBU in their own system or something like that thus making it even harder for an attacker to even try to contest SOV? That's "emergent" gameplay no?
Lan Wang
Princess Aiko Hold My Hand
Safety. Net
#365 - 2017-03-20 18:40:34 UTC  |  Edited by: Lan Wang
1. stop calling them smartbombs, makes you sound uneducated as they are very much allowed in lowsec

2. you got aggressive about me not "addressing" your comment, which i did, now have the curtosy to address the questions i asked you.

lowsec does not have restrictions on using capitals

Domination Nephilim - Angel Cartel

Calm down miner. As you pointed out, people think they can get away with stuff they would not in rl... Like for example illegal mining... - Ima Wreckyou*
Mr Mieyli
Doomheim
#366 - 2017-03-20 18:41:32 UTC  |  Edited by: Mr Mieyli
Salvos Rhoska wrote:
sero Hita wrote:
Snip


Explain to me how cynos/caps are justified in LS.


Caps/cynos are justified for ::reasons::

Explain to me how they are not justified? Has god proclaimed from on high that this is the case? Closest thing to god here is CCP, and it's written in the good book, 0.4 systems and below do not feature concord, bombs, or bubbles that's all it says.

I agree it's unfortunate certain null blocs can control lowsec as well, but I don't think most of low is really controlled by the null empires. Null is paved with gold, why would those guys even care about lowsec? It would be better game design if low was somehow sheltered from the big boys in null, allowing room to grow in a hostile environment, but this is eve and change is Baaaad.

I want you to think hard about this bit salvos, what makes a thing justified?

This post brought to you by CCP's alpha forum alt initiative. Playing the eve forums has never come cheaper.
Jenn aSide
Soul Machines
The Initiative.
#367 - 2017-03-20 18:41:54 UTC
Lan Wang wrote:
1. stop calling them smartbombs, makes you sound uneducated as they are very much allowed in lowsec

2. you got aggressive about me not "addressing" your comment, which i did, now have the curtosy to address the questions i asked you


Wait, he thinks doomsdays are 'smartbombs'? lol.

He's having another "afk carrier ratting" moment.
Salvos Rhoska
#368 - 2017-03-20 18:42:38 UTC
Lan Wang wrote:
1. stop calling them smartbombs, makes you sound uneducated as they are very much allowed in lowsec

2. you got aggressive about me not "addressing" your comment, which i did, now have the curtosy to address the questions i asked you


Wat?

Getting aggressive at you?
Dude, take a break from the keyboard.

PvE v PvP <> Old School Exploration <> CODE Licenses <> CODE Special Agent
Frostys Virpio
State War Academy
Caldari State
#369 - 2017-03-20 18:43:15 UTC
Salvos Rhoska wrote:

Answer me this:
-When LS has cynos and caps as does NS, but not bubbles or smartbombs, (which you have stated dont stop cynos), what is the goddam point of LS?



Well 1st, you can use smartbomb in LS. You can even use them in HS.

The no bubbles clause to low-sec game play is pretty interesting to many players. If you don't believe it, think for a second why interceptor are so popular.
Lan Wang
Princess Aiko Hold My Hand
Safety. Net
#370 - 2017-03-20 18:45:49 UTC
Salvos Rhoska wrote:
Lan Wang wrote:
1. stop calling them smartbombs, makes you sound uneducated as they are very much allowed in lowsec

2. you got aggressive about me not "addressing" your comment, which i did, now have the curtosy to address the questions i asked you


Wat?

Getting aggressive at you?
Dude, take a break from the keyboard.


Salvos Rhoska wrote:
How much are you being paid to shill?
They should fire you, Mr. Meat-Puppet.
You are terrible and lazy at your job.

A one-liner? Seriously?
Pretending offense? Seriously?
Thats it?

GJ failing to address my post.
Let me re-post if for you..


Salvos Rhoska wrote:
You dont need LS, and LS doesnt need you.
Fk off to NS where you belong.


looks pretty aggressive so maybe take your own advice

Domination Nephilim - Angel Cartel

Calm down miner. As you pointed out, people think they can get away with stuff they would not in rl... Like for example illegal mining... - Ima Wreckyou*
Salvos Rhoska
#371 - 2017-03-20 18:51:29 UTC
Mr Mieyli wrote:
I agree it's unfortunate certain null blocs can control lowsec as well, but I don't think most of low is really controlled by the null empires. Null is paved with gold, why would those guys even care about lowsec? It would be better game design if low was somehow sheltered from the big boys in null, allowing room to grow in a hostile environment, but this is eve and change is Baaaad.


They do control LS on their axis of entry to HS, by various means.
-Citadel networks to hop through.
-Dropping on LS.
-Alt Corps there to secure transit.

They dont care about LS.
They only care about getting their goods back and forth through it.
Plus some incidental lols in wrecking LS Corps inorder to sustain the above.

Removing cynos/caps from LS impairs that, and forces them to fight in LS on equal, gate based, sub-cap ground.
They are also afraid of more subcap capable corps moving into LS (either as legit, or NS front corps of their antagonists) to further complicate their logistic route through LS to HS markets.

Hence the vociferous resistance to this change by various shills.

PvE v PvP <> Old School Exploration <> CODE Licenses <> CODE Special Agent
Salvos Rhoska
#372 - 2017-03-20 18:53:39 UTC  |  Edited by: Salvos Rhoska
Lan Wang wrote:


Salvos Rhoska wrote:
You dont need LS, and LS doesnt need you.
Fk off to NS where you belong.


looks pretty aggressive so maybe take your own advice


HTFU, meat-puppet shill.

EVE is aggressive. Deal with it.

PvE v PvP <> Old School Exploration <> CODE Licenses <> CODE Special Agent
Frostys Virpio
State War Academy
Caldari State
#373 - 2017-03-20 18:57:22 UTC
Salvos Rhoska wrote:
Lan Wang wrote:


Salvos Rhoska wrote:
You dont need LS, and LS doesnt need you.
Fk off to NS where you belong.


looks pretty aggressive so maybe take your own advice


HTFU, meat-puppet shill.

EVE is aggressive. Deal with it.


HTFU

Los-Sec has Cynos. Deal with it.
Lan Wang
Princess Aiko Hold My Hand
Safety. Net
#374 - 2017-03-20 18:59:48 UTC
Frostys Virpio wrote:
Salvos Rhoska wrote:
Lan Wang wrote:


Salvos Rhoska wrote:
You dont need LS, and LS doesnt need you.
Fk off to NS where you belong.


looks pretty aggressive so maybe take your own advice


HTFU, meat-puppet shill.

EVE is aggressive. Deal with it.


HTFU

Los-Sec has Cynos. Deal with it.


he is just salty because someone blopsed his pve boat in lowsec

Domination Nephilim - Angel Cartel

Calm down miner. As you pointed out, people think they can get away with stuff they would not in rl... Like for example illegal mining... - Ima Wreckyou*
Salvos Rhoska
#375 - 2017-03-20 19:01:32 UTC  |  Edited by: Salvos Rhoska
Frostys Virpio wrote:
Snip.


Explain cynos/caps in LS, in 817 systems, where you dont need cynos/caps to gatecamp, run content, to PvP, or bypass bubbles, with restrictions on engagement, where NS neighbors can drop on you with caps, when you can also run cynos/caps in the 3400+systems around it?

Makes no sense.

Cynos/caps are not justified or necessary in LS.

You have 3400+ NS systems to cyno and cap fight in.

Why the hell do you claim that should happen in the mere 817 LS systems?
What are you trying to hide?
Wtf are you even doing in LS?

PvE v PvP <> Old School Exploration <> CODE Licenses <> CODE Special Agent
Frostys Virpio
State War Academy
Caldari State
#376 - 2017-03-20 19:05:46 UTC
Salvos Rhoska wrote:
Frostys Virpio wrote:
Snip.


Explain cynos/caps in LS, in 817 systems, where you dont need cynos/caps to gatecamp, run content, to PvP, or bypass bubbles, with restrictions on engagement, where NS neighbors can drop on you with caps, when you can also run cynos/caps in the 3400+systems around it?



You don't actually need cynos anywhere in the game so saying you don't need them in low-sec is 100% irrelevant.
Lan Wang
Princess Aiko Hold My Hand
Safety. Net
#377 - 2017-03-20 19:06:13 UTC
cyno's are litterally the only way to get ships into a system which has an organised gatecamp with scouts in every surrounding system looking for hostile fleets

Domination Nephilim - Angel Cartel

Calm down miner. As you pointed out, people think they can get away with stuff they would not in rl... Like for example illegal mining... - Ima Wreckyou*
Salvos Rhoska
#378 - 2017-03-20 19:12:30 UTC  |  Edited by: Salvos Rhoska
Lan Wang wrote:
cyno's are litterally the only way to get ships into a system which has an organised gatecamp with scouts in every surrounding system looking for hostile fleets


Wrong.

Cynos can bypass the gatecamp(s) entirely and drop far beyond them in a distant system.

Also, you dont need cynos to bypass a gatecamp.
Instead use a non-gatecamped point of entry, fit correctly, scout or escort force your way through.

But you are beginning to catch on to why cynos/caps should not exist in LS.
Thats good.

PvE v PvP <> Old School Exploration <> CODE Licenses <> CODE Special Agent
Lan Wang
Princess Aiko Hold My Hand
Safety. Net
#379 - 2017-03-20 19:14:54 UTC  |  Edited by: Lan Wang
Salvos Rhoska wrote:
Lan Wang wrote:
cyno's are litterally the only way to get ships into a system which has an organised gatecamp with scouts in every surrounding system looking for hostile fleets


Wrong.

Cynos bypass the gatecamp(s) entirely and drop far beyond them in a distant system.

Also, you dont need cynos to bypass a gatecamp.
Instead use a non-gatecamped point of entry, fit correctly, scout or escort force your way through.

But you are beginning to catch on to why cynos/caps should not exist in LS.
Thats good.


you didnt understand my commen but thats fine ill simplfy it for you...how do people engage an organised gatecamp which can see a fleet of subcaps from 2 jumps out? but i really shouldnt complain about you buffing gatecamping.

Domination Nephilim - Angel Cartel

Calm down miner. As you pointed out, people think they can get away with stuff they would not in rl... Like for example illegal mining... - Ima Wreckyou*
Salvos Rhoska
#380 - 2017-03-20 19:15:36 UTC  |  Edited by: Salvos Rhoska
Frostys Virpio wrote:
Salvos Rhoska wrote:
Frostys Virpio wrote:
Snip.


Explain cynos/caps in LS, in 817 systems, where you dont need cynos/caps to gatecamp, run content, to PvP, or bypass bubbles, with restrictions on engagement, where NS neighbors can drop on you with caps, when you can also run cynos/caps in the 3400+systems around it?



You don't actually need cynos anywhere in the game so saying you don't need them in low-sec is 100% irrelevant.


Then why are cynos disallowed in HS?
Or in WHs?

See what I mean?

This is not a justification for cynos in LS.

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