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Is transport too easy?
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Scipio Artelius
Weaponised Vegemite
Flying Dangerous
#141 - 2017-03-10 00:56:08 UTC  |  Edited by: Scipio Artelius
Krin Dessat wrote:
I thought the original post was on making it more interesting to haul goods out of NS?

Yeah, it was supposed to be:

I believe that Jump Freighters make moving goods "too easy". Major moves still may have challenges, but for regular getting goods too and from market, there is very little risk of piracy if an operation is properly planned. Quick, easy, and relatively safe access from most regions to Jita causes an increased emphasis on the one central hub and makes multiple smaller regional markets less viable.

Now it's about slapping a tax on movements, which does nothing at all to affect safety.

Nor does it affect the viability of regional markets, since the proposed tax is just a movement tax, irrespective of destination. 10 jumps to Jita or 10 jumps to Agil, same tax.

Krin Dessat wrote:
Personally, I am unsure if the ease of transport is the main reason this is happening, but merely that there are more buyers in HS.

There are definitely more buyers in highsec, which also includes buyers for nullsec and lowsec Corps/Alliances. A place like Jita offers every ship, module, skillbook, etc. in the game, which is far more convenient than trying to manufacture everything yourself as an Alliance. Manufacture a few things, transport them to Jita (or Amarr), sell and buy other stuff you need.

There are some things that null/low Corps/Alliances wouldn't be able to access easily if they tried to just produce everything themselves locally (eg. pirate faction ships).

Citadels in particular have made hauling extremely safe for jump freighters. People still die, but if well planned and paying attention, they really shouldn't ever anymore. Instant tethering was a nice safety buff.

I'm not sure what the solution is, or even if one is needed.

Jump Freighters are so convenient, however there is very little way now that good players can differentiate themselves from the incompetents when each change (eg. EHP buff, damage control balance, fittings for freighters/jump freighters, tethering, etc.) makes the game safer for hauling with a JF. I agree with the OP about the whole safety aspect.
Salvos Rhoska
#142 - 2017-03-10 08:41:15 UTC  |  Edited by: Salvos Rhoska
JFs can certainly be discussed.
Safety can certainly be discussed.

The suggestion of a HS delivery value % tax obviously doesnt affect JFs directly, nor safety.
But it does help localise/diversify markets in HS, which is a secondary attached goal to the topic that many would like to see realized.

Another potential indirect advantage might be that it results in more people flying their own cargo, which will probably be easier targets (and more numerous) for suicide gankers than professional, experienced and dedicated haulers are.

That it introduces another isk sink, isnt a bad thing either.

baltec1 argues this hurts new players.
It does not, as the tax is applied only to delivery packages, not to moving your own stuff.
Shouldnt hurt delivery hauler profits either, as though more players might opt to fly their own cargo, hauling contracts will likely be shorter routes, allowing for haulers to run more of them in the same period of time. The cargo tax is covered by the client in the reward.

NPC delivery missions would not incur a cargo tax

PvE v PvP <> Old School Exploration <> CODE Licenses <> CODE Special Agent
baltec1
Bat Country
Pandemic Horde
#143 - 2017-03-10 10:05:24 UTC
Salvos Rhoska wrote:

baltec1 argues this hurts new players.
It does not, as the tax is applied only to delivery packages, not to moving your own stuff.


The alliances will simply adapt already used out of game tools to get around this. Malcanis' Law is in full effect here, the older already established players will have no issue with avoiding your tax entirely while the new, inexperienced and bad players this is supposed to help will get the full whack. Trade hubs for the likes of us older players will be unaffected.

It also doesn't address OP's issue.
Salvos Rhoska
#144 - 2017-03-10 20:34:51 UTC
baltec1 wrote:
Salvos Rhoska wrote:

baltec1 argues this hurts new players.
It does not, as the tax is applied only to delivery packages, not to moving your own stuff.


The alliances will simply adapt already used out of game tools to get around this. Malcanis' Law is in full effect here, the older already established players will have no issue with avoiding your tax entirely while the new, inexperienced and bad players this is supposed to help will get the full whack. Trade hubs for the likes of us older players will be unaffected.

It also doesn't address OP's issue.


Again, its like you cant read/comprehend an entire post at a time, or remember what was said in previous ones.

The cargo tax only applies to delivery packages, not moving your own property.
There is no inequity in this between new and old players, in HS.
The means for both either to move their own cargo, take a delivery contract, or entrust their goods without formal contract, remain the same, for both.

It just means contracted deliveries will be more expensive in HS per jump, thus encouraging localisation of HS markets, rather than goods flooding to Jita.

This can run concurrent with JF changes, and other safety changes in HS, or further down the trade chain.

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Merovee
Gorthaur Legion
Imperium Mordor
#145 - 2017-03-11 08:06:56 UTC
They should just drop the sec for Jita to -4 for sh!t&giggles Blink

Empire, the next new world order.
Brynjard
Meaal Contractors
#146 - 2017-03-11 08:41:50 UTC
Salvos Rhoska wrote:
Brynjard wrote:
I dont see the problem


You stated the problem yourself..


How? There is no mandatory way to supply your NS area with stuff.
In my NS area I get all my stuff sold. But it's also a high populated NS area.
If your NS area is vast populated, I belive the best way is how you suggest.

That's why I don't see the problem, it works either way.

The real problem is massive overproduction and everyone want to sell in trade hubs.
And why wouldn't you? You get the proffit many times faster in most cases through playing the 00,1 isk game.

It also reflect how RL works, local shops close because most people are shopping online or in the big malls.

Shocked
Salvos Rhoska
#147 - 2017-03-11 10:40:16 UTC  |  Edited by: Salvos Rhoska
Brynjard wrote:
Salvos Rhoska wrote:
Brynjard wrote:
I dont see the problem


You stated the problem yourself..


How? There is no mandatory way to supply your NS area with stuff.
In my NS area I get all my stuff sold. But it's also a high populated NS area.
If your NS area is vast populated, I belive the best way is how you suggest.

That's why I don't see the problem, it works either way.

The real problem is massive overproduction and everyone want to sell in trade hubs.
And why wouldn't you? You get the proffit many times faster in most cases through playing the 00,1 isk game.

It also reflect how RL works, local shops close because most people are shopping online or in the big malls.

Shocked

The problem Im addressing, is Jita (and by extension, The Forge).

An HS cargo tax on deliveries granulates material transport, and local markets.
If you contract a delivery from the opposing end of HS to Jita, you will incur so much cargo tax that you will be unable to compete for profit on the goods once they reach Jita. (Unless you use JFs to skirt HS via LS, which is a separate issue)

Unless you are willing to haul it yourself, or entrust it to someone else without contract, you will be better off trading locally.

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