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So...what happened to walking in stations? Bars etc

Author
Lord Harrowmont
Viziam
Amarr Empire
#61 - 2017-03-07 21:33:02 UTC
I understand a lot of people where against the idea. To think of it though we have had many other implementations of non spaceship entities such as PI, POS, Citadels etc. It has only made the game richer. I don't really see a valid argument as to why people are against it.

If it's a technical issue than I can totally understand it. But otherwise I just don't get it. I find it a good area to expand in to make the community even closer and interact in other ways than just blowing each other up.

Just imagine playing a game of poker with your fellow Capsuleers after a long fleet, socialising and meeting new pilots, forming connections. It would open up a new playing field to the game and even attract more players.

It could even be expanded to learning more of the game Lore, meeting interesting characters and conversing with them and such. Wishful thinking maybe, but so many possibilities.

If you have played the original Mass Effect, you get the idea how awesome the concept would be. Just my opinion though, im a newbro and I stumbled upon this not long ago. Blink


Arthur Aihaken
CODE.d
#62 - 2017-03-07 21:48:53 UTC  |  Edited by: Arthur Aihaken
Here's another example: Star Citizen. A game that's tried to be everything and is still in an alpha state after 5 years and 140+ million dollars. There's a lot of existing aspects of EVE that need to be addressed first before introducing another feature.

I am currently away, traveling through time and will be returning last week.

Milla Goodpussy
Garoun Investment Bank
#63 - 2017-03-07 22:32:11 UTC
Arthur Aihaken wrote:
Here's another example: Star Citizen. A game that's tried to be everything and is still in an alpha state after 5 years and 140+ million dollars. There's a lot of existing aspects of EVE that need to be addressed first before introducing another feature.



so they are taking their time to have a complete polished product , instead of rushing product to the forefront broken and needing many many many patches/fixes for years to come. Here you have "we promise to keep communication going with the playerbase" months on end they go silent only patching up the bits and pieces due to constant endless debates. playerbase screams fix this and that ccp says they'll think about it... but weary to do so cause it requires "work" Shocked

they'll nerf a rorqual , but refuse to nerf griefing cloaky campers
they're so concerned about minerals, yet fail to understand not all regions are the same due to large guy vs small guy.. yet they claim the small guy can have sov..

there's so much tunnel vision going on right now its no wonder they have problems retaining new players.



mkint
#64 - 2017-03-08 03:17:58 UTC
Milla Goodpussy wrote:
Arthur Aihaken wrote:
Here's another example: Star Citizen. A game that's tried to be everything and is still in an alpha state after 5 years and 140+ million dollars. There's a lot of existing aspects of EVE that need to be addressed first before introducing another feature.



so they are taking their time to have a complete polished product , instead of rushing product to the forefront broken and needing many many many patches/fixes for years to come. Here you have "we promise to keep communication going with the playerbase" months on end they go silent only patching up the bits and pieces due to constant endless debates. playerbase screams fix this and that ccp says they'll think about it... but weary to do so cause it requires "work" Shocked

they'll nerf a rorqual , but refuse to nerf griefing cloaky campers
they're so concerned about minerals, yet fail to understand not all regions are the same due to large guy vs small guy.. yet they claim the small guy can have sov..

there's so much tunnel vision going on right now its no wonder they have problems retaining new players.




Most of that has at least some validity, but doesn't have anything to do with WiS. The really important thing to keep in mind about WiS is that it is a completely separate game. It is not EVE. It might use your EVE character, even your wallet, but it's still a completely different game. There is a good reason why it doesn't work. The first attempt I know of to get something like that off the ground was around 2002, and it was considered one of videogaming's biggest failures. There have been numerous attempts since, each ending in failure. The reason it doesn't work is because it is 2 completely different games. To do it right, it would require 2 completely different dev teams. It would require double the work, double the investment, double the deployment issues. And the studio is still only getting paid for 1 game. The other option, the one that every studio ended up going with was halfassing both parts of the game. EVE had basically no development for 2 full years and all we got out of it was CQ. And it turned out CCP couldn't afford to do that. It cost them 1/3 of their employees. Think about the significance of that. CCP should have gone bankrupt. It's a full blown miracle that they even still exist right now, and talent-wise, they are still a shadow of what they once were.

Maxim 6. If violence wasn’t your last resort, you failed to resort to enough of it.

Milla Goodpussy
Garoun Investment Bank
#65 - 2017-03-08 03:28:54 UTC
mkint wrote:
Milla Goodpussy wrote:
Arthur Aihaken wrote:
Here's another example: Star Citizen. A game that's tried to be everything and is still in an alpha state after 5 years and 140+ million dollars. There's a lot of existing aspects of EVE that need to be addressed first before introducing another feature.



so they are taking their time to have a complete polished product , instead of rushing product to the forefront broken and needing many many many patches/fixes for years to come. Here you have "we promise to keep communication going with the playerbase" months on end they go silent only patching up the bits and pieces due to constant endless debates. playerbase screams fix this and that ccp says they'll think about it... but weary to do so cause it requires "work" Shocked

they'll nerf a rorqual , but refuse to nerf griefing cloaky campers
they're so concerned about minerals, yet fail to understand not all regions are the same due to large guy vs small guy.. yet they claim the small guy can have sov..

there's so much tunnel vision going on right now its no wonder they have problems retaining new players.




Most of that has at least some validity, but doesn't have anything to do with WiS. The really important thing to keep in mind about WiS is that it is a completely separate game. It is not EVE. It might use your EVE character, even your wallet, but it's still a completely different game. There is a good reason why it doesn't work. The first attempt I know of to get something like that off the ground was around 2002, and it was considered one of videogaming's biggest failures. There have been numerous attempts since, each ending in failure. The reason it doesn't work is because it is 2 completely different games. To do it right, it would require 2 completely different dev teams. It would require double the work, double the investment, double the deployment issues. And the studio is still only getting paid for 1 game. The other option, the one that every studio ended up going with was halfassing both parts of the game. EVE had basically no development for 2 full years and all we got out of it was CQ. And it turned out CCP couldn't afford to do that. It cost them 1/3 of their employees. Think about the significance of that. CCP should have gone bankrupt. It's a full blown miracle that they even still exist right now, and talent-wise, they are still a shadow of what they once were.


well that what happens when you blow 44 mil in terrible R&D projects that would get canned.. im sorry but they prove ever more often how they waste our money we invest in them. its all nothing but excuses, excuses, and more excuses for that a company provides while failing to keep their promises (which often they'll claim then backaway cause they love hype).

im now looking at how i spend my hard earned cash for entertainment for seriously these days.. is eve a waste of cash? its kind of just due to the way the game mechanics are and how it seems awfully slow to move forward its almost as bad as its skills training.. and im not the only one saying this. then you have the diehards who absolutely love this game for their own valid reasons which i respect and honor however. when it comes to the CQ debacle they could have removed this mess long ago just like they decided to do removing it from citadels.. now im even more bored inside a citadel and dont have a sofa to sit down on and wonder how the Dragon guy has soo many darn bounties on himself..

I WANT IMMERSION! this is a space game, it has some of the most smartest people that play this game. you have a freaking expert JPL guy that absolutely loves this game.. yet they cant figure out walking in stations.. why not just ask him!.. i would love to float in stations.. anything than what we have here.. expand the realm of belief and cease this stagnant boring atmosphere.
Indahmawar Fazmarai
#66 - 2017-03-08 07:52:30 UTC
Arthur Aihaken wrote:
Here's another example: Star Citizen. A game that's tried to be everything and is still in an alpha state after 5 years and 140+ million dollars. There's a lot of existing aspects of EVE that need to be addressed first before introducing another feature.


Star Citizen talks a lot more about inappropiate management than about the difficulty of making a game that haves both space and land content. Because those kind of games exist, even in the MMO genre, and CCP wasn't inventing anything new when they tried to develop Incarna.

It is important to understand that there were good and solid reasons why WiS was necessary to EVE, and to bear in mind that what we are experiencing is a kind of "plan B". CCP ended in a place they didn't wanted to be because it was a road to failure, and they've been struggling to not fail since then. And yet they are failing.

EVE is currently in the best possible place as a "own your space and pew pew for it" game. Yet it's like a punctured boat; it's not floating up, and CCP's best bet is that maybe if they throw enough weight, it will stabilyze or maybe they'll find time to patch the hole.

And maybe that would work, if wasn't because a certain Seagull got its things mixed up about who was pumping the water and made a decission that's been costing crew for no good.

EVE will not stay afloat without people, and CCP Seagull's vision with the Rubicon Plan was essentially "we can do fine without some little not-so-relevant bunches of people" which has become "oops ooks like those not-so-relevant bunches of people were 60% of our customers and one of the main reasons why the other 40% gives us money..."
Josef Djugashvilis
#67 - 2017-03-08 08:03:00 UTC
There are many, many other threads about this topic where you can find the information you need.

You should resist the temptation to start yet another thread on this, done to death topic.

This is not a signature.

DeMichael Crimson
Republic University
Minmatar Republic
#68 - 2017-03-08 09:54:54 UTC
mkint wrote:
EVE had basically no development for 2 full years and all we got out of it was CQ. And it turned out CCP couldn't afford to do that. It cost them 1/3 of their employees. Think about the significance of that. CCP should have gone bankrupt. It's a full blown miracle that they even still exist right now, and talent-wise, they are still a shadow of what they once were.

You seriously need to do some research first before posting.

If you had read this entire thread you would have seen this post explaining what was happening at that time.



DMC
Jenn aSide
Soul Machines
The Initiative.
#69 - 2017-03-08 13:36:47 UTC
Lord Harrowmont wrote:
I understand a lot of people where against the idea. To think of it though we have had many other implementations of non spaceship entities such as PI, POS, Citadels etc. It has only made the game richer. I don't really see a valid argument as to why people are against it.

If it's a technical issue than I can totally understand it. But otherwise I just don't get it. I find it a good area to expand in to make the community even closer and interact in other ways than just blowing each other up.

Just imagine playing a game of poker with your fellow Capsuleers after a long fleet, socialising and meeting new pilots, forming connections. It would open up a new playing field to the game and even attract more players.

It could even be expanded to learning more of the game Lore, meeting interesting characters and conversing with them and such. Wishful thinking maybe, but so many possibilities.

If you have played the original Mass Effect, you get the idea how awesome the concept would be. Just my opinion though, im a newbro and I stumbled upon this not long ago. Blink




It's clear you don't understand why a lot of people don't like the idea. look at the highlighted part. That seems cool to you. It's seems dumb to me. I'm not alone in thinking that.

Some people want that level of "immersion" sure. But others of us like for the game we play to be focused on something and to not "mission creep" it's way into a mishmash of not so well connected parts. We knew WiS would be such a thing, and DUST 514 proved it to us.

The immersion people are almost always RP types that talk about things like "lore". Well, lots of us don't give a flip about "lore" and play open world sandbox games like this to make up our own stories that had nothing to do with established lore. So some feature that lets us learn more about lore we don't give a flip about is not exciting lol.



Oh and something that has not been mentioned here. WiS was FORCED on us. When CCP introduced the captains quarters, they made it mandatory. No more ship spinning, and there was the feeling that eventually you'd have to drudge along in a station to talk to an agent or something instead of the simple way we were all used to. The whole thing was BS and promised to be even more BS-like as time went on. A big part of our complaint against WiS was how you could not opt out of it.

It meant that CCP didn't understand it's players, who like things quick and simple and don't care about avatars and crap like that. The WiS fanatics always believe that the anger was about something other than WiS. They are wrong, it was exactly about WiS for many of us, myself included.
Lan Wang
Princess Aiko Hold My Hand
Safety. Net
#70 - 2017-03-08 13:38:58 UTC
because sitting in a virtual bar drinking virtual alcohol sounds as fun as going to a nightclub and drinking soda water all night

Domination Nephilim - Angel Cartel

Calm down miner. As you pointed out, people think they can get away with stuff they would not in rl... Like for example illegal mining... - Ima Wreckyou*

Pleasure Hub Node-514
Pleasure Hub Hotline
#71 - 2017-03-08 13:41:43 UTC
Lan Wang wrote:
because sitting in a virtual bar drinking virtual alcohol sounds as fun as going to a nightclub and drinking soda water all night

Where else would you suggest I go to pick up clients?

'One night hauler' The tell all story of a pleasure bot in Jita 4-4

Keno Skir
#72 - 2017-03-08 14:14:23 UTC
Pleasure Hub Node-514 wrote:
Lan Wang wrote:
because sitting in a virtual bar drinking virtual alcohol sounds as fun as going to a nightclub and drinking soda water all night

Where else would you suggest I go to pick up clients?


Probably some bronies or some sh*t at Comicon, try there.
Indahmawar Fazmarai
#73 - 2017-03-08 14:52:48 UTC
Jenn aSide wrote:
(...)

It meant that CCP didn't understand it's players, who like things quick and simple (...)


O'rly?
Jenn aSide
Soul Machines
The Initiative.
#74 - 2017-03-08 14:56:50 UTC
Indahmawar Fazmarai wrote:
Jenn aSide wrote:
(...)

It meant that CCP didn't understand it's players, who like things quick and simple (...)


O'rly?


Yes really, having to walk to a console to refit or having to walk to talk to an agent would suck.
Lan Wang
Princess Aiko Hold My Hand
Safety. Net
#75 - 2017-03-08 15:18:59 UTC
Jenn aSide wrote:
Indahmawar Fazmarai wrote:
Jenn aSide wrote:
(...)

It meant that CCP didn't understand it's players, who like things quick and simple (...)


O'rly?


Yes really, having to walk to a console to refit or having to walk to talk to an agent would suck.


its true, especially in a game where min/maxing is pretty much everyones goal no matter what they do, having walking in stations would be fun for the first 3 minutes then everyone would go back to the normal and faster more streamlined ways to play

i hear things like "we could have meeting rooms for alliance meetings" - no thanks id rather watch netflix while ratting with teamspeak on.

Domination Nephilim - Angel Cartel

Calm down miner. As you pointed out, people think they can get away with stuff they would not in rl... Like for example illegal mining... - Ima Wreckyou*

Mr Mieyli
Doomheim
#76 - 2017-03-08 15:30:32 UTC
The lesson to take away from this thread?

Change is scary, different people have their concerns and so we stay where we are. Stuck for over a decade.

Change is also essential for a product/ service to continue existing. Eve might be the best thing since sliced bread, but other shops are selling fully made delicious sandwiches.

Adapt or die.

This post brought to you by CCP's alpha forum alt initiative. Playing the eve forums has never come cheaper.

Jenn aSide
Soul Machines
The Initiative.
#77 - 2017-03-08 15:50:03 UTC  |  Edited by: Jenn aSide
Mr Mieyli wrote:
The lesson to take away from this thread?

Change is scary, different people have their concerns and so we stay where we are. Stuck for over a decade.

Change is also essential for a product/ service to continue existing. Eve might be the best thing since sliced bread, but other shops are selling fully made delicious sandwiches.

Adapt or die.


More of that nonsense "if you don't like what I like you are just afraid of change" nonsense people put out when they don't want to understand that others are different. If we were 'afraid of change', a guy could come to our door with a million dollars and we'd turn them away because damn it don't change my financial situation!!! lol.

EVE doesn't have to turn into a Star Citizen clone to be relevant, and it has evolved without that nonsense un-EVE like space barbie BS when many other MMOs didn't make it past their 3rd birthday. I am, however, glad that SC is in development so that people that just need some good old space jet dogfighting and FPS play (with no more than 23 other people per instance) can stop being disappointed in EVE.
Jotunspor
Caldari Provisions
Caldari State
#78 - 2017-03-08 15:57:13 UTC
ArmyOfMe wrote:
Lord Harrowmont wrote:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_t1SKhdCkHM

Will we ever be able to meet other EVE players in stations? I thought this was a great concept, what happened to it? Straight

Bigger question is, how do we talk CCP into completing that, cause I personaly think it would be great fun, even if it was just to play poker, and walk around talking to ppl.
Sure would beat spinning ships.


Talk CCP into completing it? lol.

Why aren't CCP doing anything? That's the real question. You see, the other question: why do the "fans" not want it; is unimportant, and has been answered by me many times on the forum. Much to the irritation and chagrin of the "fans".



CCP? I really don't know. They can directly determine the success of the game. Logically, the only thing i can think of, is that they're simply too complacent and ignorant to do anything, or they really are worried that their "fans" will start a domino effect causing the game's collapse. The outcome of WiS and the underlying development problem, and the biggest problem with this game - the solution to all of these things - is also completely and totally logical. There's no content. And there's no completeness to EVE Online. This game literally has nothing to keep players playing, and to draw in actual gamers. It's very, very simple logic. No content, no game. This game has been Internet Spaceships since its release in 2003. It's gone nowhere. None of the essential components to an open world game have been developed. No immersion (and this point further breaks down and bleeds into every other aspect of the game.) No actual content. No QUALITY content. But i suppose the last point is entirely moot, because it's simply interconnected to the former. But yeah, the "fans" will no doubt be the nail in the coffin for this game is this continues.
Lan Wang
Princess Aiko Hold My Hand
Safety. Net
#79 - 2017-03-08 16:29:46 UTC
Jotunspor wrote:
ArmyOfMe wrote:
Lord Harrowmont wrote:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_t1SKhdCkHM

Will we ever be able to meet other EVE players in stations? I thought this was a great concept, what happened to it? Straight

Bigger question is, how do we talk CCP into completing that, cause I personaly think it would be great fun, even if it was just to play poker, and walk around talking to ppl.
Sure would beat spinning ships.


Talk CCP into completing it? lol.

Why aren't CCP doing anything? That's the real question. You see, the other question: why do the "fans" not want it; is unimportant, and has been answered by me many times on the forum. Much to the irritation and chagrin of the "fans".



CCP? I really don't know. They can directly determine the success of the game. Logically, the only thing i can think of, is that they're simply too complacent and ignorant to do anything, or they really are worried that their "fans" will start a domino effect causing the game's collapse. The outcome of WiS and the underlying development problem, and the biggest problem with this game - the solution to all of these things - is also completely and totally logical. There's no content. And there's no completeness to EVE Online. This game literally has nothing to keep players playing, and to draw in actual gamers. It's very, very simple logic. No content, no game. This game has been Internet Spaceships since its release in 2003. It's gone nowhere. None of the essential components to an open world game have been developed. No immersion (and this point further breaks down and bleeds into every other aspect of the game.) No actual content. No QUALITY content. But i suppose the last point is entirely moot, because it's simply interconnected to the former. But yeah, the "fans" will no doubt be the nail in the coffin for this game is this continues.


just go play something like sc or mass effect if you want this, you know like the cod players who want to drive tanks go and play battlefield.

Domination Nephilim - Angel Cartel

Calm down miner. As you pointed out, people think they can get away with stuff they would not in rl... Like for example illegal mining... - Ima Wreckyou*

Mr Mieyli
Doomheim
#80 - 2017-03-08 16:40:54 UTC
I love as well that as soon as anyone suggests changes, they are told to go find what they want elsewhere, in anothe game. This isn't a healthy or sustainable approach to maintaining a playerbase. Look, when I said people were afraid of change that is natural. People have concerns their way of play will vanish, or whatever other concern. A good company would communicate and adapt to those concerns.

I was told eve was a sandbox, the ultimate sci-fi simulator, room to do whatever you want. Unless that want is something as little as using your characters legs. If eve is a sandbox, it's got to be one of the shallowest around.

This post brought to you by CCP's alpha forum alt initiative. Playing the eve forums has never come cheaper.