EVE General Discussion

That's true, but the aim of Blizzard is to integrate with social media. CCP is not the one, here, trying to get personal information, it's the players. An API is usually present for one reason - to allow developers to create tools to help you with the game. That fitting tool, for example, uses the API, and it does so appropriately. It uses the API you enter, for YOUR use, to help you. It doesn't send the API key off to other players.

Differing from WoW, CCP's API does not give out personal information about the player - what it does give out is personal information beyond the character in question, i.e., metadata, about a players actions that you would not have access to in game. This is a very different type of abuse than what Blizzard intended, and CCP are not the ones doing it - the players are, because they just have to be able to be, out of game, as 100% certain as they can be that they know all about you.

You would not normally know every skill a player has, how much isk, where his alts are at and what they have. These facts being in evidence, I find your comparison to be irrelevant. You're throwing out a red herring?

It's only 'trolling' when you disagree with something? What is it, exactly, that you think constitutes 'trolling?' I'm talking about the subject *I* raised, not randomly calling you names. And, yes, API requests from corporations ARE negotiable. That you think they are NOT and SAID so, well, that just proves the point, doesn't it? In your mind you have an absolute right to out-of-game metadata about the content, behaviors, and resources of all my toons.

But, in all other matters, well, perfect intel can't be had - sometimes you just don't know, EVE is a game about risk vs. reward...

Blah, blah, blah. I feel it important to raise this point, because it's quite possible that newer players just hand over those keys without really realizing that you can cache the data; even if he revokes the key at a later date, you have a very useful snapshot of intelligence that will age very nicely, in case he leaves your corp and you're angry. Players giving away that api-key are making much more of an investment in you than you are in them.

That meta-data is something you could never learn, in the game. It seems to be the one big area where the rich all of a sudden are not quite so content with imperfect intelligence. No, not when their stuff is on the chessboard instead of safely secured, right?

You do raise some good points, so let me respond to them one by one. Yes, I have had that happen, in Wow. I don't give out my realID very frequently, and only to people I know in real life. But, it's less of a risk, there. They can use it for recruitment and such, but seeing my gear is not too terrible a risk. In WoW, you can pretty much be assured that a toon at end-game content is wearing, if not BiS, transitional gear that has the right stats for their role.

I also don't lose the gear when I die in a BG or Arena match, so money is really quite useless in Wow, beyond a certain point. Here, a loss means a loss of the equivalent 'gear,' and being able to see what people have trained is clearly invaluable intelligence if you bear them ill will.

It's only very loosely comparable, too loosely, imo, for it to be relevant as an argument.

You said both of these things, did you not? You say I liken it to some real life stuff, civil rights and all... Says the person who WOULD IF SHE COULD, COLLECT DNA!!!!

This is absolutely incredible! And I mean that as in the actual definition of the word, not as a compliment.

Yes, it's very simple. Even though this is a game where you have to be part of a team to get ahead. That's like Facebook taking over pretty much the entire online social media spectrum, buying up everything in sight. Well, if you don't like censorship, don't be on Facebook!

They have the right to do whatever they want - they're a private corporation! Except, they're really a bit more, aren't they? A lot of these corporations have used their massive financial power to completely monopolize a segment of industry. Since everyone uses them, they are basically a public utility, and are in fact, publicly traded. They should not be able to hide behind 'it's a company, so we can do whatever we want.'

You know what, corporations do the same thing, in EVE. They have all the cards, so they think that no rules need apply to them, that they can violate every precept of moral behavior, use out of game information, to protect themselves and their riches.

Will they keep doing this? Yes, so long as people let them. If, however, a significant number of players decide to start withholding those keys, and not playing that game? The situation will change. I'd like to see that situation change, so of course I have to be vocal about the ills and evils of the current system, now don't I?

Edit: Also, when someone not only defends this crap, but tells me to get over myself nearly in the same breath they used to proclaim they would collect dna if they could? That potent a defense, that level of real life paranoia, means you have gone insane - this is no longer a GAME to a person like that. It's their life.

Ms. DNA also just let slip what a huge advantage of theirs that I've decided to lock onto. Taking this away would really hurt corporations badly, making them play on a level playing field without perfect knowledge. If it were NOT so VALUABLE, the fight would have been ho-hum, whatever, we'll stop asking for it, no big deal; we respect our player's privacy, and we value you, so we'll quit being unreasonable. lol

You can usually tell when you've hit a soft spot by how hard your enemy squeals, and in the very rich, the ones bragging about their trillions of isk, the panic over even the thought was pretty intense. So, yeah, hit them with it if you're tired of their crap.

Your pal already answered you.



I already pointed out the vast number of Discretionary Access Controls available in the game, for roles, hangars, storage of all types. If you can't be troubled to configure it, or make a mistake... Oh well.

To be fair, the corp ui is a ******* mess and calling it unintuitive is just short of blasphemy. It often does not respond properly. So you wonder whether the change you just made did happen or not and check thrice, just to be sure.

I can't imagine how this must be in a big corp. Were I not in my tiny little tax evasion corp, and someone asked me to take responsibility in another corp and work with the corp ui, I'd outright refuse it.

It's pretty much the same with corp offices and the handling of secure and log containers. One can only hope, that CCP has the right ideas when they do redesign the corp ui.

The defensive responses you've received are a clear indication that you're correct. I can see why this would be a red flag for you when attempting to join a corporation. The in-game mechanics are as adequate as anything else when it comes to preventing corporate theft. Potential thieves are aware of the situation regarding API keys and the fact that they will need a seemingly trustworthy account to carry out their plan. Putting anyone in a position of power is a risk regardless of what you think you know about them.

Requesting API keys is a sign of fragility and fear which shows that you have something of value to be stolen. Either that or you have an unhealthy interest in the applicant's assets. A thief would in fact be more likely to hand over their API key willingly in comparison to an honest player who just wants to join your corporation. An honest player is taking a risk themselves when they place their assets in the hands of your corporation. Requesting API keys is a sign of weakness to thieves and to an honest player, a sign that your corporation cannot be trusted.

Hmm, lets see if I can knock out an explanation, though I'm not thinking you're going to like it.

First off, yes this is metagaming, because Eve is a game that's as much about the metagame as the game itself. Requesting full API keys is, in this sense, perfectly fair because it's a metagame defense against metagame actions.

A corp wants to see your other characters because they might belong to corps belonging to their enemies.

They want to see your wallet history to make sure you haven't received payments from their enemies.

They want to see your mails to make sure you haven't been in contact with their enemies.

None of this is going to be foolproof, but it makes it harder to infiltrate and AWOX and that's the goal here. Just because your precautions won't cover everything doesn't mean they're not worth doing.



Yup, which requires trust or you'll find yourself with a knife in your back in fairly short order. Spies and sabotage are part and parcel of the game in Eve, so it would be fantastically unwise for a corp not to take precautions against them. If you want them to trust you enough to let you join their corporation then you need to show that you trust them with the details they need to be able to trust you.

After all, trust is a two way street.

This is no different than a real life employer requesting permission for a background check. You can avoid that if you like, but that's going to significantly limit your employment options.