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NPC Hi Sec Blue Community

Author
Amojin
Doomheim
#161 - 2017-03-07 19:21:04 UTC
Scipio Artelius wrote:
Amojin wrote:
...You gankers use alts to profit your mains. You are completely divorced from the consequences of your actions due to this mechanic. You even brag about it. Like I said, code (the algorithm, not the corp) is a completely neutral, artificial construct. It treats everyone fairly. If your main profited from your main's actions, I'd shut right the hell up.

But, the fact, by all of your own admission, is that this is not the case. You're damned lucky that your game of choice is run by a for-profit gaming company, because I would ban you immediately...

Ive never ganked a single ship in this game.

So ban me for what?


More semantics? If the shoe doesn't fit, I guess I have to acquit. But if you're not a ganker, what I said doesn't apply to you, does it?

Let's just wipe this crap right off the field. I'm not attacking any single one of you, individually. I'm addressing the points you bring up, and those points are that gankers make heavy use of alts to profit. If that's not you, personally, great!
Amojin
Doomheim
#162 - 2017-03-07 19:23:19 UTC
Ima Wreckyou wrote:
Amojin wrote:
But, the fact, by all of your own admission, is that this is not the case. You're damned lucky that your game of choice is run by a for-profit gaming company, because I would ban you immediately and send off mails to all the other mu* wizards, too. You would have been perma-banned from everywhere we could reach.

Do yourself a favour and accept EVE for what it is. This game always had multiboxing and always will have. If you think that makes the game bad for you, feel free to play something else, there are a ton of other games out there which do not allow such a thing.

What you do now is so typical anti-ganking. You create yourself some artificial moral high horse from where you can moan about how the game is unfair and favours the other players in some kind, instead of embarrassing EVE for what it is and actually have fun while playing it.

The AG channel is already full of those people, Dravclad is their prototype, we don't need any more.


I don't much care about it, mechanically. I know you cheats are here, and I plan accordingly. I lose ships. But that's because I don't care. Sometimes it's the right thing to do, to play the game, and fight knowing you're going to lose.

I had fun, you made money. We both got what we wanted. The difference between me and a lot of those that really, really hate you, is that I don't terribly mind watching pixels explode.
Nicolai Serkanner
Incredible.
Brave Collective
#163 - 2017-03-07 19:32:11 UTC
Amojin wrote:
Nicolai Serkanner wrote:
It was most definitely a revolution. Read some books by Martin Broszat or Ian Kershaw to educate yourself.

What has Hitler being Austrian to do with the historical fact of "Nazi Germany"?


It's just going to be deleted, even if I tell you. What's the point?


Indeed, what is the point? You brought it up.
Jenn aSide
Soul Machines
The Initiative.
#164 - 2017-03-07 19:33:24 UTC  |  Edited by: Jenn aSide
Ima Wreckyou wrote:

Do yourself a favour and accept EVE for what it is.


If people could do that there would be no forums at all Cool Oh and btw, simply typing the words "accept EVE for what it is" triggers the hell out of the 'I demand CHANGE' crowd, expect angry retorts about how you think the game is perfect and never needs to change in the next 30 minutes or so lol.

When you get right down to it, that's what most of the arguments are about though. In any group, activity, situation or event you'll have 2 main types of people. On one side you have the the folks who come in, like what they see or at least can tolerate what exists, and who settle right in and relax.

On the other you have the 'perpetual change' folk. They get bored with things within 5 minutes of experiencing them, they walk into every situation thinking "hmm, this could be better" and they oppose anything that could be labeled 'status quo' even if they were the ones who created that particular status quo.

As one of the former, when I think of the latter type I think that it must suck badly to never be able to be happy with anything for long. June 24 of this year will mark 10 years for me and I'm more happy with EVE now than when I started, even despite CCP's misques.
Scipio Artelius
Weaponised Vegemite
Flying Dangerous
#165 - 2017-03-07 19:33:51 UTC
Amojin wrote:
But if you're not a ganker, what I said doesn't apply to you, does it?

If you make claims about throwaway alts, then even as a non-ganker yes it does apply to me because I'd want to know you have provided your evidence of it.

As a player, I play within the rules of the game as everyone should. If you have evidence if people not doing that, then it should be given to CCP.

If however, you don't have evidence, then it's just another baseless, useless post.

Quote:
I'm addressing the points you bring up, and those points are that gankers make heavy use of alts for profit

The point I bought up was that alts are used heavily by everyone in this game, specifically pointing to scouts, webbing alts and exit cynos used to provide safety from gankers.

I didn't bring up the point you've written there at all.
Nicolai Serkanner
Incredible.
Brave Collective
#166 - 2017-03-07 19:34:39 UTC
Salvos Rhoska wrote:
Nicolai Serkanner wrote:
What has Hitler being Austrian to do with the historical fact of "Nazi Germany"?


A great deal.

But it is not relevant to this thread.

Return to topic, please, at least as relevant to EVE.


Please elaborate, and don't tell me he was born in Austria and founded the NSDAP. What is the relevance Amojin "hinted" at?

I didn't brought it up so I stay at this subject.
Amojin
Doomheim
#167 - 2017-03-07 19:41:02 UTC
Nicolai Serkanner wrote:
Amojin wrote:
Nicolai Serkanner wrote:
It was most definitely a revolution. Read some books by Martin Broszat or Ian Kershaw to educate yourself.

What has Hitler being Austrian to do with the historical fact of "Nazi Germany"?


It's just going to be deleted, even if I tell you. What's the point?


Indeed, what is the point? You brought it up.


Yes, and in sufficiently vague terms. It does require that you have enough knowledge to get the point, yes. I'm sorry for that, but it's unavoidable. If I start on specifics, it's deleted.
Salvos Rhoska
#168 - 2017-03-07 19:43:32 UTC
Scipio Artelius wrote:
Salvos Rhoska wrote:
You yourself advocated there was a pittance of 130mil in somehow nailing down and destroying a full-fit 24 man gank fleet.

No I didn't.
Salvos Rhoska wrote:
Many of which attacking might incur CONCORD.

I specifically mentioned setting safety to green/yellow. You can't be Concordekkened at all if you use the safety correctly.

However, this is heading down one of your stupid rabbit holes where you ignore what is actually written, just to push some alternative point you think is somehow impressive. As usual, it's boring and adds no value, so knock yourself out with whatever joy it brings you. I have no interest in it.


Scipio Artelius wrote:
24 attackers total, including 9 bombers that drop 10-15 million each. If you are quick enough, there's up to 130 million in loot. Drop an MTU and salvage the T2 ships for a bit more (no real idea though on how much that would add)..


Yes, you did, As shown above.

Safety setting was not a concern in my posts. You confuse me with someone else.
The potential of looting ganker wrecks was already stated as unlikely by yourself in a subsequent post.

You are a liar, and dishonest.
You are so far down your own "hole" that you cant even remember to whom you lied what.

Amojin
Doomheim
#169 - 2017-03-07 19:45:16 UTC
Scipio Artelius wrote:
If however, you don't have evidence, then it's just another baseless, useless post.


How can I have 'evidence?' If I say I saw one, and they lost status, and then I never saw them again, is that evidence? No. They may have just docked up that toon and left him in their little panel of three.

Do I know that? No. Is there any way I COULD know that? No.

The only ones that have evidence are the wizbit equivalents, here in eve, whatever you call those. I'm not terribly fond of making accusations I can't prove, even when I'm pretty sure they're right. But, that aside, most gankers are not at -10 when they hit in highsec, they are not flashing red, and we do have to wait for them to toss away the protections high sec offers them.
Salvos Rhoska
#170 - 2017-03-07 19:45:59 UTC  |  Edited by: Salvos Rhoska
Nicolai Serkanner wrote:
Salvos Rhoska wrote:
Nicolai Serkanner wrote:
What has Hitler being Austrian to do with the historical fact of "Nazi Germany"?


A great deal.

But it is not relevant to this thread.

Return to topic, please, at least as relevant to EVE.


Please elaborate, and don't tell me he was born in Austria and founded the NSDAP. What is the relevance Amojin "hinted" at?

I didn't brought it up so I stay at this subject.


PM me this question if you wish.

Hitler is not relevant to the topic of this thread, or any of its evolution.
Scipio Artelius
Weaponised Vegemite
Flying Dangerous
#171 - 2017-03-07 19:54:11 UTC  |  Edited by: Scipio Artelius
Salvos Rhoska wrote:
Scipio Artelius wrote:
Salvos Rhoska wrote:
You yourself advocated there was a pittance of 130mil in somehow nailing down and destroying a full-fit 24 man gank fleet.

No I didn't.
Salvos Rhoska wrote:
Many of which attacking might incur CONCORD.

I specifically mentioned setting safety to green/yellow. You can't be Concordekkened at all if you use the safety correctly.

However, this is heading down one of your stupid rabbit holes where you ignore what is actually written, just to push some alternative point you think is somehow impressive. As usual, it's boring and adds no value, so knock yourself out with whatever joy it brings you. I have no interest in it.


Scipio Artelius wrote:
24 attackers total, including 9 bombers that drop 10-15 million each. If you are quick enough, there's up to 130 million in loot. Drop an MTU and salvage the T2 ships for a bit more (no real idea though on how much that would add)..


Yes, you did, As shown above.

Safety setting was not a concern in my posts. You confuse me with someone else.
The potential of looting ganker wrecks was already stated as unlikely by yourself in a subsequent post.

You are a liar, and dishonest.
You are so far down your own "hole" that you cant even remember to whom you lied what.


I didn't mention anything at all about destroying a 24 ship gank fleet, just that if you want to loot from a solo ganker, then I agreed with you that there's not much profit in that. However, if instead you hang around in the busy ganking systems, you can loot freely the gank ships because gank loot is blue to everyone. You won't get all loot from a gank, because there is competition for it from the gankers themselves, but if you are quick, there's profit there, well above the 2-5 million off a single catalyst.

Looting is not unlikely. It's only unlikely to scoop all the wreck loot from the gankers each time. Busy system, multiple ganks per hour and the profit is probably quite good. I don't have data to know exactly how profitable as I've never done it. Certainly more profitable than following solo gankers.

Safety setting is a way to completely prevent being Concorded, which is a concern you did mention.
Scipio Artelius
Weaponised Vegemite
Flying Dangerous
#172 - 2017-03-07 20:07:41 UTC  |  Edited by: Scipio Artelius
Amojin wrote:

How can I have 'evidence?' If I say I saw one, and they lost status, and then I never saw them again, is that evidence? No. They may have just docked up that toon and left him in their little panel of three.

Do I know that? No. Is there any way I COULD know that? No.

Tracking Corp would be one way. If you see some new ganker and watch as their sec status drops to < -5 and then they are suddenly biomassed and in Doomheim, that would be the sort of observation that would help build evidence about your claim of throwaway alts. Not conclusive on its own, but something that together with other examples, would show a pattern and should be reported so CCP could follow up and look closer.

As a player base, we might not be able to know with certainty, but we can do better than making accusations with no evidence at all.
Salvos Rhoska
#173 - 2017-03-07 20:15:19 UTC  |  Edited by: Salvos Rhoska
Scipio Artelius wrote:
Snip


The point of discussion, was AG profits.

To which you rebutted, inanely, a potential pittance yield of 130mil, if somehow the AG fleet can hold down all 24 of the gankers and destroy them, and collect all the loot (divided by random drops), minus attrition.

In a pre-emptive act on the fleet, green/yellow security settings impair action against targets with sufficient security rating. Thus they are spared, by CONCORD.

130mil, split between a fleet to identify, hold and destroy 24 ships, is pathetic.
No 24 man gank fleet would ever bother with a 130mil single target, much less if it took destroying 24 ships for an overall 130mil payoff.

You've lost the plot, completely.
Dracvlad
Taishi Combine
Astral Alliance
#174 - 2017-03-07 20:28:00 UTC  |  Edited by: Dracvlad
Nicolai Serkanner wrote:
Dracvlad wrote:
Aaron wrote:
Nicolai Serkanner wrote:
This is gonna be good. I thoroughly enjoyed the topics here on your Blue Null sec attempt. I put a fiver on Dracvlad screwing you over within 5 pages from now.


Drac won't be part of this.


Only in as much as Herzog and I suggested that you actually do it rather than talk about it, but this is completely your baby, I am back in sov 0.0 and loving it, I do however wish you luck in your endeavours.


Nicolai Serkanner, why, I spent a very good first period of my Eve game time with Aaron and I had a great time, and while we may have developed differences I still like and respect him, we had some stonking fights and a lot of fun in Hub Zero, and I have very fond memories of that period.


So in a nut shell, good luck Aaron.


Page 5 ... I called it!!!

Now let the screwing over start. We all know the Drav can not not "help" you Aaron.


Not really sure what you are trying to say here, I wished him luck, I rather like Aaron as he is a good guy, we have a different approach which created an issue between us, that is life and there is nothing wrong with that. Still I have a lot of time for him and count him as a friend. Methinks you are trying too hard... Roll

When the going gets tough the Gankers get their CSM rep to change mechanics in their favour.

Blocked: Teckos Pech, Sonya Corvinus, baltec1, Shae Tadaruwa, Wander Prian, Daichi Yamato, Jonah Gravenstein, Merin Ryskin, Linus Gorp

Amojin
Doomheim
#175 - 2017-03-07 20:35:26 UTC
@Salvos.

The real bottom line is that you won't help yourselves. I've lost a number of ships on a number of toons, out of what is pure curiosity.

Will the sheep, even when an Anatolian appears, fight? 60 drones from 12 miners...

The answer is 'no.' You'll watch the dog die.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=uYJ88MHPyF8
Salvos Rhoska
#176 - 2017-03-07 20:35:57 UTC
Aaron does, what Aaron does.

Content is content.

This time, I will help him, on this project.
Scipio Artelius
Weaponised Vegemite
Flying Dangerous
#177 - 2017-03-07 20:36:46 UTC  |  Edited by: Scipio Artelius
Salvos Rhoska wrote:
Scipio Artelius wrote:
Snip


The point of discussion, was AG profits.

To which you rebutted, inanely, a potential pittance yield of 130mil, if somehow the AG fleet can hold down all 24 of the gankers and destroy them, and collect all the loot (divided by random drops), minus attrition.

In a pre-emptive act on the fleet, green/yellow security settings impair action against targets with sufficient security rating. Thus they are spared, by CONCORD.

130mil, split between a fleet to identify, hold and destroy 24 ships, is pathetic.
No 24 man gank fleet would ever bother with a 130mil single target, much less if it took destroying 24 ships for an overall 130mil payoff.

You've lost the plot, completely.

FFS, Bjorn was referring to doing it on his own, not only as part of a fleet:

https://forums.eveonline.com/default.aspx?g=posts&m=6863228#post6863228

I didn't go anywhere near needing to actually kill the gankers. There's no need if the interest is profit. Let them gank and then scoop what loot you can from their ships.

Believe it or not, my intent isn't the stupid rubbish you peddle as usual.
Salvos Rhoska
#178 - 2017-03-07 20:47:42 UTC  |  Edited by: Salvos Rhoska
Scipio Artelius wrote:
Snip.


Wtf does Bjorn have to do with me, or your responses to me?

What is this nonsense attempt to avoid culpability for your actions?

Suddenly now its Bjorns fault? Ive never even addressed him.

Wtf do you think you are doing?

Scooping up the trash is not AG.
You are again trying to avoid the issue.

Goddamit, your dishonesty knows no ends.
Scipio Artelius
Weaponised Vegemite
Flying Dangerous
#179 - 2017-03-07 21:16:08 UTC
Salvos Rhoska wrote:
Ive never even addressed him..

https://forums.eveonline.com/default.aspx?g=posts&m=6863284#post6863284

That was what then led to this, after I replied to your response to Bjorn.
Dracvlad
Taishi Combine
Astral Alliance
#180 - 2017-03-07 21:33:13 UTC  |  Edited by: Dracvlad
Bjorn Tyrson wrote:
Yes, turn HS into low-sec :D

in seriousness though, you can gank gankers, quite easily, and could even make a decent profit on it.

as was mentioned earlier, a t2 catalyst can easily drop between 2 and 5 mil in loot, as they are fitted for pure gank. which also makes them paper thin, thin enough that you wouldn't need nearly the kind of dps that they do in order to pop them.

so you fit out your own "counter gank" ship, well you can easily fit out a t1 catalyst for about 2-3mil, which will have more than enough dps to pop theirs before concord arrives. hell you might even be able to pop 2 or 3 of them if you are fast.

have an alt on standby to scoop the loot, both from their ships and from yours, and you will at minimum break even, or depending on how many of them you can catch could potentially double or even tripple what you spent assuming the loot fairy is nice.

"oh but they fly in big groups"... well yeah... eve is an MMO, get some friends together and wreck their camp. since you could potentially pop more than 1 of them before you go down yourself you wouldn't even need as many people.

Edit: just ran the numbers, a counter-gankalyst could take down a gankalyst in under 10 seconds, since concord is likely to be pulled off grid by the gankers to buy themselves more time you can take advantage of that. the counter-gankalyst costs under 2 mil, even with rigs, and would allow you to take out at least 1 of their ships before concord responds (assuming they even do pop you since you could get lucky and catch them flagged.) so for 2 mil isk, you can do 10+mil worth of damage, and likely recover the entire cost of your ship.... sure its not as good a profit margin as the gankers go for. but the point is that there IS counter-play.


I read this and went ShockedRoll In theory... but pratice, Lol What about if you get a fleet with your mates and do it then report back. Lets see just how well you do. Evil And more importantly how long you do it, ten minutes max I bet. And this is where I give the AG players a huge shout out of respect for doing this against the odds day in and day out

When the going gets tough the Gankers get their CSM rep to change mechanics in their favour.

Blocked: Teckos Pech, Sonya Corvinus, baltec1, Shae Tadaruwa, Wander Prian, Daichi Yamato, Jonah Gravenstein, Merin Ryskin, Linus Gorp