EVE General Discussion

Watchlists needed to be changed. It's unfortunate that they've had a negative impact on high-sec warfare, but it was a lot of free intelligence for zero effort.

Why should anyone participate in combat just for your entertainment?

They have nothing to gain by beating (or even engaging with) an aggressor. Their best move is avoidance.

The natural balance between "fighting for fun" and "not fighting because it's boring and pointless" is "wardecs as blackmail" for the aggressor, and avoidance for their target. Highsec would have to be very different for that to change.

I still sticking by my three key suggestions:

1. Make the cost of wardec proportional to the ratio of cumulative skill points between the corps
2. Give Concord LP to defenders when they make a kill.
3. make cost of wardec proportional to the average security status of the defender.

Are there any reasons why these might not be good ideas?

Sad but true.

Strangely enough 'respect' is not something absolute. Its value is totally personal and heavily depends of whos respect is it.

Spending ISK, time and effort to 'achieve random high-sec aggressors respect' might be worthwhile for you but not for many.

You should understand that for many you (not you personally but 'high-sec merc groups') are not much different that NPC. Yes, you can disrupt activities (like high-sec incursions do to mission runners and miners, or 0.0 incursions disrupt jump-bridges) and you can kill (like incursion rats on 0.0 gates or drifters). But if person is prepared you as harmless as NPC.

All bad, in my opinion, but point number 2 is the worst. If you have any illusions that this mechanic would not be abused to nothing but profit for two crops at war helping each other then you are either very new or very blind. Here is the exploitation of that concept.

Corp number one is the one that wants the Concord LP. They take an alt and build corp number two.

Corp number two declares war on corp number one, which makes corp number one the defender.

Now the two enemies meet in some quiet space (a mission pocket would be best, especially one that might require a gate key to keep out interlopers) Corp one kills the defenseless corp two ship and earns CONCORD LP. For the sake of speed having a third pilot on grid with an ship full of extra targets (meaning corp two 'combat ships') spits out another one and they go again.

If you would get LP for podding a pilot as well, then this would happen right out side a station with a clone bay, all day long.

So you suggest that the "victims" just remain silent and allow the big boys to decide for them?

No thanks.

I would second that, hisec is pretty much a dead area at this point, no point in killing it completely, we will get silly ideas like the one the OP came out with.

As I keep saying the mechanics are not the issue and are in themselves quite good, the issue is that hisec is not really a place for any real content any more, and is only worth visiting for the market hubs. Indy in hisec is at a massive disadvantage, mining too, PVE too, mission are mind numbing and incursions, uggggh. And people now start off in places like PH aned Brave. So hisec is dead. Tweaking the war dec system will do jack.

Well I rather like the get in fleet and kill those coming to kill me, that is actually quite fun content, I am not really a roaming player but do partake to bond with others. I am interested in real strat ops and that is where I get my buzz. Also building and holding onto an area of space. Earlier the alliance my main is in chased off and killed som PL, sadly I did not get on the kills as I was out of range but it was fun.

Gate camps are seriously boring in my opinion, I have done it in the past, but only up until I get reported in intel then move to another spot, there are some places that are perfect for it.

The issue is it depends, in your prime time you can be pretty safe, outside of that its less safe and don't forget that there are some people who can totally dominate you in their TZ's.

Simplistically that is what the game is all about to develop your resources and ability to fight better and have more fun in the progress. The alliance I have joined is developing its abilities very nicely and is very strong in their main TZ

What you get from it really is a shared development of the entity you are in, which is even better if you get on well with the people you are with. And it is true that Eve is better with other players, with hisec there is no real groups working together to the same degree and that is why hisec is stale, and war decs are one of the reason for that as they are so desperate to shoot something that they go after anything that they think they can get a kill on, so most people keep their heads down.

I would talk about an alliance called Waltriepers, or something like that, they made a fight out of being evicted but here is the rub, because they did they earned respect, there was a damn big queue of people that wanted to come after them, and what you end up with is people whose idea of good fights are clean clinical winning and ramming their power down someones throat. Thankfully with the changes to jump fatigue that has reduced somewhat but it is still there, when the Goons invaded the space that the alliance I am in now defended, they just used 30 supers on each node making it impossible to fight it. That is the reality of it and there is always people like that in this game. Your objective is to set yourself up to be as impacted to as less a degree as possible. Which is why the asset safety is really good for smaller entities.

What I want to try again is medium sized fleet combat, I am not interested in the big lag fests, but medium sized combat with supers, carriers dreads and sub caps, about 250 in each fleet something like that and I am lucky enough to be able to play in the AU TZ if I want to for that content. I would not bother in terms of EU and US.

Does that help?

To the degree that you shared a perspective I was not terribly familiar with, Lucas, yes, it helped. But in all honesty, I think the things you're talking about happen pretty rarely. In fact, I'm sure of it, just because of the cost of the massive battle you're talking about, for both sides.

You fairly well summed up the hi-sec philosophy, and my personal philosophy - minimize my losses, with the added caveat, of not becoming the same 'monster' that I hate. The people that swarm hi-sec are pretty desperate for any 'excitement,' yes, it seems so, but like I said, I've watched a few battles go down in null, nothing on the grand scale you speak of, certainly; I'd have loved to have a ring-side seat for that, but alas, I have not come across it.

What I have come across is this: People in null are usually prepared for a gank. That, alone, that single fact, makes the gank less likely to occur, and a hell of a lot more costly both to attack, and to defend. As a result, from what I have seen, null is pretty stale, sans a few spectacular events, very periodically. But, I don't know. I'm in a one man corp, since the CEO is one of my alts, and I'm still just trying to build up my skills, get my bpos researched, and build a base of skills where I can basically be mostly self sufficient.

Why? Because while I will work with a group, I don't have faith in a group. Not to the point where I'll commit all my assets and time, blindly, no.